1958 Johnson super seahorse 35 starting problems-fuel system?

[kfa4303]

Re: 1958 Johnson super seahorse 35 starting problems-fuel system?

Hi industrial. You'll have to check to see if you're particular pump can be rebuilt. Some models can, some can't. I would try to rebuild it, if at all possible, as the new pumps are a little pricey (+/- $80). Here's a link that may help.

http://www.leeroysramblings.com/Rebuilding_fuelpump.htm

 

[Industrialmaterial]

Re: 1958 Johnson super seahorse 35 starting problems-fuel system?

Completed the carb rebuild tonight and replaced the filter and seals on the sediment bowl. the diaphragm in the fuel pump looks intact. I have not started it up yet. it's time for a break. one concern i had was that I tapped the Welch plug in a bit aggressively and the center has a flattened area (not too dented concave, but noticeably cupped in the size of the tool I used to tamp it in with). One strike too many, too firmly. I plan on giving it a go as is. Should I expect issues and proactively order a new welch plug? I tested for leaks with a touch of water on the plug and compressed air. through the low speed needle prior to reassembling. Seemed like the edges were tight against the carb wall.

 

[kfa4303]

Re: 1958 Johnson super seahorse 35 starting problems-fuel system?

I think you'll be ok. You want to tap the welch plug such that it goes from convex to flat. Also, if you can pump the primer bulb and it gets firm, then the fuel pump is probably ok too. Here's a link that will help you dial in the carb. Good luck.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=167352

Here are some vids of motor similar to yours you give you an idea of what to expect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tPc3SkIX2g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTDsWKw4xsE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyAE096HipQ&NR=1&feature=endscreen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZWjHxx5uD8&feature=related

 

[Industrialmaterial]

Re: 1958 Johnson super seahorse 35 starting problems-fuel system?

OK. After a full carb rebuild and fuel pump checkup, i tried to start it today. No change from the previous attempts. Checked the plugs and they didn't seem wet. Checked for spark- nice, robust blue spark on both plugs. checked that fuel was getting to the carb- fuel dribbled out the air intake after cranking with the choke manually on. Open both butterflies and blew some fuel onto the reed valves with compressed air to see if they needed wetting. no change. it cranks and cranks and no cough, sputter, backfire- anything. I tried opening up the low speed needle an extra turn to get some fuel through to the reed valves. no effect. the primer bulb gets nice and tight so the needle is closing fine. really stymied at this point. any ideas what to do next?

 

[Industrialmaterial]

Re: 1958 Johnson super seahorse 35 starting problems-fuel system?

PS- anyone think that the reed petals are stuck shut? the reed plate and petals looks super clean when I had the carb off. i just can't think of what would be keeping the fuel from getting through.

 

[kfa4303]

Re: 1958 Johnson super seahorse 35 starting problems-fuel system?

Hi Industrial. It's very rare for the reeds to be faulty, but anything is possible, I suppose. Have you tried removing the spark plugs and spraying some fuel/oil mix into the cylinders, then reinstalling the plugs and firing it up? Does your carb have a glass bowl so that you can see the fuel as it enters the carb? My motor does not, so I installed a little in-line plastic fuel filter (see pic) in the hose connecting the fuel pump to the carb. You can get one at any auto store for about $2. Not only does it act as a filter, but it also lets me see that the lines are, in fact, filling while the motor is running, or when I pump the primer bulb prior to starting. Based on your description, the spark sounds good, and I'm assuming the compression is good, which just leaves fuel. If you're using a 2-lin pressure tank there are several possible places you could have an air leak. Patience and a systematic approach are best. Keep us posted.

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: 1958 Johnson super seahorse 35 starting problems-fuel system?

I'd try spraying premix into the carb throat to see if it fires off.
Champion J4C or J6C plugs?

 

[Industrialmaterial]

Re: 1958 Johnson super seahorse 35 starting problems-fuel system?

Champion J4C. Sprayed fuel mix into throat and didn't see a change. Tried spraying some mix into spark plug chambers. No change. Question: when the spark plug is held against the engine block, I see a blue spark but did not see one jump a gap to the block. I.e. it sparked only after I touched it to the block. Normal?

 

[Industrialmaterial]

Re: 1958 Johnson super seahorse 35 starting problems-fuel system?

It's a single line system with a fuel pump.

 

[kfa4303]

Re: 1958 Johnson super seahorse 35 starting problems-fuel system?

Grounding the plugs on the block isn't really the best way to test them. I would suggest a little $5 gap tester from any auto parts store. You want the spark to jump a 1/4" gap. When you pump the primer bulb, does it get and stay firm? If so, that's good. It means the fuel pump is probably ok. If not, then the pump may need to be inspected. Here's a great ignition rebuild link.

http://www.outboard-boat-motor-repa...on 3 HP 1952-1967 Ignition System Tune-up.htm

 

[samo_ott]

Re: 1958 Johnson super seahorse 35 starting problems-fuel system?

Has any work been done on the ignition?

 

[Industrialmaterial]

Re: 1958 Johnson super seahorse 35 starting problems-fuel system?

Seems odd though that it would be the issue since the spark did appear robust. Fuel system seems to be fine since I have inspected, replaced, or rebuilt everything between the gas tank to the reed valves. I plan on testing compression just to make sure despite the fact that I feel air blown through the plug holes when they aren't in and the motor cranks. My next step would be to pop the flywheel and inspect the ignition system. Still excited about this motor. It will be a sweet add to the 57' boat-turns out it was mislabeled as a Wagemaker Wolverine Plylap sometime during the past 55 years. It is an Elgin (made for Sears by Wagemaker/Wolverine) De Luxe from 1957. Will start looking for original emblems for off the port and starboard quarters. I appreciate all the advice you all have given.

 

[nwcove]

Re: 1958 Johnson super seahorse 35 starting problems-fuel system?

hopefully its ok, but the first test you should have done would be compression.

 

[samo_ott]

Re: 1958 Johnson super seahorse 35 starting problems-fuel system?

Yes. Compression first. Then checking for a good spark with a proper spark tested would be second.

 

[Industrialmaterial]

Re: 1958 Johnson super seahorse 35 starting problems-fuel system?

Compression is 115 in upper. 120 in lower. Tried to remove the flywheel but need the puller. WIll get that tomorrow. Looked in the inspection hole after removing the cover. Coils are split and look pretty rough. Will see what we find under the flywheel, but hoping that will be the solution. Love that "Rent for Free" program at AutoZone since I don't think I'll be needing a flywheel puller that often...

 

[Industrialmaterial]

Re: 1958 Johnson super seahorse 35 starting problems-fuel system?

Got the flywheel to pop finally this afternoon. I found this mess.

 

[Industrialmaterial]

Re: 1958 Johnson super seahorse 35 starting problems-fuel system?


Can anyone please let me know if this cam wick should be installed like this? The ignition kit did not come with instructions. I also spent some time with other threads on the cam wick and found conflicting views on whether one should add oil, grease or nothing to this cam wick pad to lube the shaft and protect the points. Any help?
Thanks again everyone.

 

[64osby]

Re: 1958 Johnson super seahorse 35 starting problems-fuel system?

Wick looks okay, but maybe push it on the lobe a little more. Looks long on the back side.

I put 3 & 1 oil or other light oil on the wick.

I've seen that mess before.

Did you get new plug wire to go with your new coils?

 

[kfa4303]

Re: 1958 Johnson super seahorse 35 starting problems-fuel system?

+1. Here's a great ignition rebuild link with lots of pics. I would strongly recommend some new s'plug wires as well. Just make sure they're 7mm COPPER CORE. You cannot use modern graphite core wires on these old motors. NAPA and many small engine shops will often sell it for a few $ a foot. You'll also need some new connectors and boots, which are also only a few $ each. Good luck. Keep us posted.

http://www.outboard-boat-motor-repa...on 3 HP 1952-1967 Ignition System Tune-up.htm

 

[Industrialmaterial]

Re: 1958 Johnson super seahorse 35 starting problems-fuel system?

Ignition rebuild done and point set at .020. Looking good so far. Should be able to get everything back together by the end of the week and try cranking her.