1956 Johnson Javelin starter

[KathyD19]

You guys are the best!

 

[lindy46]

Well, lo and behold! I looked in my "inventory" and found a 1956 Evinrude-Johnson starter. It's an Autolite MDH 4001M. I checked it and the bolt pattern (separation) is different from a 1957 (12 volt) starter. That's why you can't mount a '57 on a '56 starter bracket without modification. Don't know if this one works, but the bendix spins freely. You can have it for the cost of shipping. If you want it, send me a PM.

 

[KathyD19]

Oh my gosh!!!! Really??? Lindy that is so incredibly generous of you. I've had family visiting for the past few days and haven't checked the forum. I was thinking about taking apart my starter, cleaning it and using the 3-in-1 oil to see if the bendix will go up and back down again. Let me do that first so I won't put you to the trouble of shipping yours. But if mine doesn't work, I will definitely PM you about buying yours from you. You are awesome! Thank you!

 

[82rude]

Great news! I was batting zero on my quest for the ever elusive starter that ive been tripping over for years.

 

[KathyD19]

No Title

Ok guys, I need some help. The oppressive heat has subsided for a couple days so I'm back at this. I've loosened the two bolts on the bottom of the starter to drop it down and now I'm trying to remove the bracket/frame so I can pull the starter out. I've removed the 5 bolts (seen here with blue arrows) but the frame is still on tightly. What am I missing?? (I want to remove the starter, open it and clean it then re-oil it and see if it will work correctly and disengage from the flywheel.)

 

[KathyD19]

Anybody?? Any clues?

 

[oldboat1]

On some models, there is a horizontal bracket bolt on the other side of the starter -- goes into the block from the front. If that's the case with yours, you will need to remove the airhorn to get at it (probably can leave the carb in place).

 

[Willyclay]

I believe the air silencer must removed before you can gain access to one last screw that is hidden back there. Sure would like to get confirmation of this by another member before you pull the air silencer off.

 

[Willyclay]

I believe the air silencer must removed before you can gain access to one last screw that is hidden back there. Sure would like to get confirmation of this by another member before you pull the air silencer off.

EDIT: Guess slow typing got the confirmation I was hoping for. Good luck!

 

[KathyD19]

Thank you gentlemen. This is frustrating. I have one more decent temp day to work on it before we hit the upper 90's-100's again.

 

[F_R]

Hey Kathy, I just checked into this thread. Is your only issue that the starter spins the flywheel but the gear won't drop down? It is down in the picture, so we know that it CAN / WILL drop down. However, it won't just "drop" down at a standstill. In order to come down, the starter must rotate backward OR the flywheel must rotate forward---as in the motor starts running. In a normal situation, the motor starts running and that results in the flywheel turning the starter instead of the starter turning the flywheel. But the flywheel will only turn the starter for a split second before it kicks the gear down which disengages the gears.

All this to say, if the starter spins the flywheel there is nothing wrong with your Bendix gear and it doesn't need fixing or replacement.

Sorry to hear about your heat. I'll be heading up your way in a couple of weeks. I hope it cools off by then.

 

[KathyD19]

Thanks F_R for checking in. The heat is back, 110 "feels like" temps through Saturday and since I can't convince my hubby to let me bring my motor inside to work on it, the project will sit for awhile longer. As far as the starter goes, yes that was the only problem is that it wouldn't drop back down once it had engaged the flywheel. And it did engage it, and properly started the motor but it remained engaged. My thought was that considering it is an original part, I might want to get a new part for reliability sake until I found out the cost. My reason for wanting to remove it now was for maintenance, to clean out any dirt or carbon build up inside and use the 3 in 1 oil to help the bendix reverse properly. But since that's becoming a bit of a hassle to remove, I may not do that after all. I was trying to trouble shoot why the starter SOLENOID was causing me such a headache, why it was staying in the closed position when it's new and shouldn't be doing that. It was when I was test starting the solenoid that I noticed the bendix staying engaged. Wondered if that happening could be related to the solenoid issue somehow? Too much power going through the solenoid? I think I'll just put it all back together, put a few drops of 3 in 1 down the bendix gear and put another brand new solenoid on (to rule a out a faulty one that I had just purchased. Only $12, I can handle that). Then I need to do some good soldering for the wires to the kill switch. After that, it's back in the test barrel and pray it works this time. As always, I welcome any and all input from you!!! Anytime! Oh an if you're really heading to central Illinois, pm me and I'll give you my cell number. I'd love to meet you in person!

 

[KathyD19]

No Title

Gentlemen, the heat has subsided and I've been working on this again. I used 3-in-1 oil on the Bendix starter gear, bought yet another new Ford Universal starter solenoid (just in case somehow my last new one was faulty) and installed that just as the last one was and then rechecked my wiring for the kill switch and push button start switch that I'd moved to the front of the boat. I even soldered the connections for the kill switch to be sure they were good. Went to barrel test just now and it does the exact same thing as before: Using the kill switch and push button start at the front of the boat does nothing so I pressed the button on the bottom of the starter solenoid and the motor started right up but again, won't throttle down to kill it, Bendix stays engaged in the flywheel and the button under the solenoid stayed pushed in. I unhooked the gas line but it takes awhile for the gas to run out so meanwhile I kept pushing on the button under the solenoid to see if I could free it up. Finally it dropped back down and I was able to push it in and it stopped the motor. Called my electrical engineer friend Dave and he was baffled too. He said to make it as simple as possible, remove the two (pos and neg) wires that I had attached for the kill switch to the starter solenoid so that there is nothing on that solenoid but the two main cables and the ground. Tried it again and oddly enough yes, it started with the push button (and the Bendix stays engaged) but solenoid button didn't stay pushed in and when I pushed it in again, the motor shut down. I did this several times to test it: push solenoid button, motor starts, push solenoid button again, motor shuts off. What the heck?? That's not how I understand a solenoid should work?? I'm not a pro at any of this of course, but my thoughts keep coming back to the new starter solenoid being the common denominator. Is it just not the right one for this motor? It's a 12 volt universal Ford one but like my friend said, you don't know how they are wired inside. I bought it because it looked like the original I had on there, with the 3 bolts and the push button to start on the bottom. Other solenoids don't have that button and without that, I'd have no means of starting it since for unknown reasons, my newly moved starter push button and kill switch on/off I moved to the dash don't seem to work. I've added two pics here: one of the motor running with the Bendix still engaged and another of how the solenoid was wired. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated. Do you agree the solenoid seems to be the issue? If so, what part is the CORRECT one for my situation?

 

[KathyD19]

Bump

 

[oldboat1]

http://www.iboats.com/Lower-Motor-C...216879--session_id.929831807--view_id.1549625

Not your model, but #29 would be a solenoid to use. You need an outboard solenoid -- can be aftermarket, but I would get the OMC/BRP model.

 

[KathyD19]

Thank you for answering, oldboat1!! Do you know if that solenoid has a push button on the bottom? Otherwise I have no way of starting the motor because for unknown reasons, the new push button start and kill switch that I moved to the front of the boat don't seem to work at all.

 

[oldboat1]

http://maxrules.com/graphics/omc/wir...RT_TO_1972.jpg (from the stickies up at the top of the forum.)

Start button would have the green wire (in diagram) to one side of the two terminals, and the white wire to the other terminal. That allows you to start.

Easiest is to put the start button back at the transom. Choke manually to start or to stop.

[edit....using the outboard solenoid like referenced above.]

 

[lindy46]

If those two black wires are for your kill switch, they don't get wired to the solenoid. They get wired to a push-button. Completing the circuit by pushing the button grounds the points and kills the motor.

 

[KathyD19]

Oh my gosh Lindy I apologize! I mislabeled the photo. Those wires (red and black) that I incorrectly labeled as to the KILL switch are actually the ones that go to the push-button ON. The kill switch ones come directly out of the motor and up to a push/pull knob. I will take another picture of it tomorrow and label it properly for anyone trying to help me. Oldboat1, I thank you for that diagram, I just printed it out and will take another look at things tomorrow. The motor doesn't have a keyed start (as in the diagram), just a push button (that for unknown reasons wasn't working which is why I had to push the button under the solenoid to start it). I think you're advice to move the buttons back to the transom is a good one! As far as choking it, I always thought it was odd that there was no option or toggle to choke it (when I got it from the previous owner, they said just turn on the kill switch and then press the start button under the solenoid. Always worked.) When starting I have the gear in neutral and the throttle half way. A friend of mine said that I was basically "choking it" already by having the throttle half way. I'm frustrated by this but I'm determined and won't give up. I really appreciate everyones help.

 

[F_R]

What the heck are you doing? Here is the correct wiring diagram. Grounding the small terminal on the solenoid makes it crank (if you have the correct solenoid)