1949 Johnson Qd-10 Help

[REDROCCO16V]

This is my 1st post to the forums, I have been a boat owner for about 9 days now. I have used this forum alot but have ran into a problem. I recently purchase 2 boats one is a 1958 lone start malibu. This is the boat I plan on keeping. I also bought a 1997 John boat. The malibu is a project and right now just a aluminum hull. The john boat included the qd-10 outboard.

Ok enough of my buying habits. I am a auto mechanic/tech by trade so I am familuar w/engines/nuts/bolts. I filled spark plug holes for a few days w/seafoam before pulling engine over. I verified ok compression (75psi for both cyl.) Then I checked for spark (only had it on one cyl) Pulled flywheel and found one coil melted down. Since coils are not available for this engine unless I found NOS for $100e. I decided to swap coil from metal armature on later model coils. This worked good on the cyl. missing spark so I did both, cleaned points set gap ect. I now have good spark. I ran engine out of water for about 20 sec. (as much fuel as i had in carb bowl/fuel tank not worked out yet) I cannot find carb kit for this engine (i have found bowl gasket only) Ok engine runs, but know I want to check lower unit and install new water pump impellar. Got lower housing off (what a pita no quick connect for shift linkage) New impellar sourced/installed.

Now my actual question comes back to the gear box, The oil was not very pretty (dark/sludge) but not milky. I was concerned though that the 1st second or 2 while draining was just water. Not sure if gear oil/water seperated since last time on the water or what. My main problem is I cannot find good #s to replaced the lower unit seals. The o-rings I can make work but the lip seals for the prop shaft and drive shaft are hard to find.
Can anyone help locate part#s for these 2 seals.

Sorry for all the back round info, And thanks in advance for any help.
Charlie.

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 1949 Johnson Qd-10 Help

Good for you for figuring out the coil conversion! That would have been your biggest challenge really.

Here are the applicable part numbers and an exploded view for you. Let me know if you need help sourcing the parts.

 

[REDROCCO16V]

Re: 1949 Johnson Qd-10 Help

Thanks for the reply Hightrim,

Yeah the coils part scared me a little but w/all the great post on this forum I was able to find the info to work it out.
I just am not sure when to stop spending money on this particular year QD motor. due to odd year/parts

I do currently have the whole gearbox apart when I drained the fluid I didn't like the looks and wanted to inspect/reseal. I was suprised to find a realy good looking set of gears/bearings.

I have looked over the diagrams and think I found the right #s.
If you have any suggestions on where to locate the seals that would be great. I have been looking through the sierra catalog and find seals that look close but not the right #'s. I was wondering if johnson maybe superceded #s or I may just be overlooking them (happens alot ask the wife)

again thanks for the help.
Charlie.

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 1949 Johnson Qd-10 Help

Do you have a micrometer or calipers to measure the original seals? If so let me know the dimensions. I need the outside diameter, inside diameter, and the width.

 

[REDROCCO16V]

Re: 1949 Johnson Qd-10 Help

Yes I do have calipers and mic. I have not removed seals yet, figured if I cannot find them old seals are better than none.
I will get them removed and measured. I also found a really good part cross ref for skf seals, lots of omc #s work. I think I found a skf # for the prop, skf# 6372 for ref. if anybody needs it, still have to figure out seal for drive shaft to gear box.
Thanks again High.

 

[REDROCCO16V]

Re: 1949 Johnson Qd-10 Help

OK update, I have ordered 2 seals from napa one for drive shaft to lower unit (napa p#NOS4950) and one for prop shaft out of lower unit (napa p#NOS6372) I will post back in a few days with results of seal fitment once they arrive.

Here is a link to the skf interchange, it was very handy w/some #s not so much w/others.

SKF | Online Catalog | Interchange (457012) | Parts Lookup

Look up for seals by dimensions

SKF | Online Catalog | Handbook of Seals (457010) | Parts Lookup

 

[REDROCCO16V]

Re: 1949 Johnson Qd-10 Help

Ok got the seals Tues, seal fit on shafts felt good. Popped out the out seals and these fit good. Just will have to check fluid on each outing. I will report back after some test runs (if I get engine running right w/o rebuilding carb/having less luck locating carb parts)
See above post for part#s.
Also while waiting for seals I aquired 5 more out boards. I will start another thread on those when I get a chance.

 

[REDROCCO16V]

Re: 1949 Johnson Qd-10 Help

OK, seals are installed motor is all back together/running (not running great but runs) lots of water pumping out of teltale, I am happy.
I am now having problems w/quality of spark. Lower cylinder has good consistent spark but upper (#1) spark is not consistant. I am running engine with light up testers in line of both cylinders. When I 1st get engine to start I have good consistant spark at both plugs. The lights on spark testers are bright. After about .5-1 minute of running upper light gets dimmer, also off idle at higher/mid rpm range the light will quit blinking momentarily. I switched spark testers and problem stays on cyl. #1.
I have attempted to move coils closer to magnito, recleaned/gaped points again and still happens on cyl. #1. I am thinking of condensor?? not sure how to test.
Any thoughts/suggestions would be appreciated.
I want to get this thing running correctly before moving onto rehabbing a 55 bigtwin 25 electric start I just bought. I want the 10 hp motor for local lakes that have a limit on hp and the 25 for all other lakes.
ch

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 1949 Johnson Qd-10 Help

Best to test the condenser with a Mercotronic or the like, but you can do general tests on it with your standard multimeter.

Put the condenser on a piece of wood or other non conductive surface. Set your meter to a medium ohms scale, like X10k. Zero meter by touching leads together and adjusting.

No touch the NEG lead to the case of the condenser, the POS lead to the ring terminal on the lone wire. This should discharge the condenser, making it quickly deflect towards 0, and then return to infinity...you ideally want a quick, short deflection. If there is no deflection present, the condenser is open and junk. If it will deflect, but has a long, slow deflection towards infinity, there is a partial short and should not be trusted.

Now, this is just a crude sort of test. You sort of need a known good one to reference the length/speed of the deflections to determine if it is not shorted, and its uf rating, if you are not familiar with what you are looking at. The capacitance can sort of be determined by the speed at which the meter deflects towards infinity. Slow return would be a higher capacity condenser, fast return would be a lower capacity condenser.

Your particular QD10 condenser will have a 0.2 microfarad rating.

 

[Daviet]

Re: 1949 Johnson Qd-10 Help

You could try swapping the coils and see if the weak spark moves with the coil, if so you have a defective coil.

 

[SumDumGuy]

Re: 1949 Johnson Qd-10 Help

You could try swapping the coils and see if the weak spark moves with the coil, if so you have a defective coil.

Same could be done with the condenser if your convinced that is the culprit. Do one, coil or condenser, then the other.

 

[REDROCCO16V]

Re: 1949 Johnson Qd-10 Help

Thanks for the replies. I am not convinced of any parts yet just know the ignition is not correct yet. Point ignition is a little new to me, I understand the principles but have little experience (so far). This just shows my age this particular motor is 30 years my senior.
Will be a couple of days before I can get engine back in the tank. I like the swap parts idea to pinpoint, more work than testing condensor but I don't feel I can test it properly.
I was also wondering if the .2 microfarad spec still applies with the coils I pressed onto the armatures.(newer style)

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 1949 Johnson Qd-10 Help

Yes that still applies.

Part number 580321 will get you the best results. There are many, many different part numbers you could use though. 510173 is another.

I would not bother swapping them. Too time consuming for the potential savings. If they are original (red paper tops, not black rubber), just swap them out with new. They are usually 50/50 on being good. If you don't have the ability to test them, just replace. They are not expensive, I sell 2 for like 10 bucks, and they can be had just about anywhere, right here on iboats included!

 

[REDROCCO16V]

Re: 1949 Johnson Qd-10 Help

I already had a set of point/condensors purchased when I installed coils. I didn't replace them due to diff. designs. The points won't work at all. Condensors mount vertical vs. originals are horizontal. Looking at the part# you referenced Those are the same as ones I already had bought. I will install them just will have to get a little creative mounting (kinda like the coils problem)
If my thought process sounds wrong let me know other wise I will report back once they are installed/test ran.
Ch

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 1949 Johnson Qd-10 Help

Yeah my mistake, keep forgetting we are talking about a '49 here.

As you stated though, as long as you can mount them somehow, and they don't obstruct anything, the will be fine. You can even go to radio shack and get a 0.2 UF capacitor and wire it in. The capacitor will be a tube with a wire sticking out either end. One wire gets wrapped around the coil mounting screw to ground, the other wire gets attached to the points.

 

[REDROCCO16V]

Re: 1949 Johnson Qd-10 Help

Ok, slow day at work this morning. Desoldered hold down from old condensers. Laid the new ones on their sides with grey rtv underneath to help hold them in place. Then I used the old hold downs to clamp them down like originals. Should hold good. Took some pics maybe they might come in handy for someone else down the road, I will post when I figure that out.
Reinstalled flywheel, rechecked points, set up tank (I now know has 2 slight air leaks) dropped into water and she came alive on 2nd pull.
Spark is now consistent. I didn't move the coils so it must have been the condenser.
Also changed lower oil. So far so good. No real in gear time just couple minutes in gear to check engagement/function and about 45 min run time. Gear oil still looks clean
Now I have 2 more issues left before I feel it will water worthy. Carb and pressure tank.
Carb really should be cleaned but I have been unable to find parts but bowl gasket if needed it can be cut out.
I have looked at adjustment procedures but they mention high speed x turns out, my high speed is not a screw like the low speed, it only turns once and is connected w levers. Is this still the same procedure?

 

[REDROCCO16V]

Re: 1949 Johnson Qd-10 Help

I have looked at adjustment procedures but they mention high speed x turns out, my high speed is not a screw like the low speed, it only turns once and is connected w levers. Is this still the same procedure?

I figured it out, after I posted the question I had the light bulb go off in my head. looked at carb again this morning. Loosen the lock bolt for linkage at high speed screw/make adjustment and then lock linkage back in with knob able to rotated 180 either direction this will give me fine tune adjustments later.
Does this sound correct?
Also how acurate is this adjustment in gear while in tank? (I don't think engine is getting hot enough)
Doing it in the boat while on the water sounds a little nuts.(not that it is a stretch for me)
I have a boat that is currently legal to put motor on and test out this weekend. Any other thoughts/suggestions before take it out on the lake?

 

[ddwilson]

Re: 1949 Johnson Qd-10 Help

better off if you can to put it in the water and adjust it, can get close in the tank but final adjustment is best done on the lake.

 

[REDROCCO16V]

Re: 1949 Johnson Qd-10 Help

The 1949 QD-10 is water worthy!
Got her running, probably took 20 min off adjusting carb till it settled. Runs real good under throttle. Trolled for a while. I ran about 2 gall of fuel. I am happy. The idle speeds not the smoothest but fairly steady. Better than I expected without taking apart carb.

Would this motor be smooth at slow speeds w/timing moved to slow speed when 100%??
This is the first engine I have ran with this set up
Ch

 

[REDROCCO16V]

Re: 1949 Johnson Qd-10 Help

This is my 1st attempt at pics, sorry if they don't come out good. I stated earlier that I would post pics of moddified coils/condensors. Hope this may hep someone in future If they are trieing to update/replaced coil/condensors on this older designed mag plate. If you have any ? I will help if I can.




I will post more pics of motor as work progresses. I now want to paint/replace decals since engine is now known to be mechanically sound.
Thanks again for all the relys/help with my rehab of this old motor. Esp. High Trim your help kept me motivated.
Charlie.