18202R idles but wont throttle up

[webrx]

OK, sorry to have to ask, but I am at my wits end here.

Buddy has an 18202R 1972, we started it after a many year hiatus and got it running, but it coughed and sputtered. So, I went through it, tightened up the stator plate, new points, plugs, condensers, coils are good and it gets good spark.

Pulled the carb, cleaned everything, made sure the holes in the bowl gasket lined up, etc. reinstalled and timed the carb to the timing marks on the flywheel.

Engine starts and idles without coughing and sputtering, but that is about all I can say for it at this point. it idles and runs against the shift stop, and a little lower, but not like it should, basically it acts like it is not getting fuel, if I manually play with the throttle plate I can get the rpm to come up a little before it chokes and dies, if I put it in gear, it will run, but as soon as I try to increase RPM, it coughs and dies. fuel lines are clear, blew through all of them, pumped the ball with the fuel filter off, fuel sprays out, pump the ball with the carb disconnected, fuel sprays out.

The low speed adjusting screw is only about 1/3 of a turn open to keep it idling smoothly, but like I said, it is idling very slow.

I am pretty sure the points are right at .020, checked them twice, but can double check again, maybe the slipped open a little.

Fuel pump looks intact, no leakage, I have disassembled and reassembled (after this problem started) and no difference in operation. The diaphragms in the fuel pump seem stiff, not soft and rubber like one would expect.

My next steps are to put in a clear fuel filter between the fuel pump and the carb to see if fuel is flowing, but, even pumping the bulb does not seem to increase rpm, maybe a little, but, not much.

This motor had a higher RPM when it was coughing and choking against the stop than it does now. like 4x faster but it was coughing and choking, kind of like what it does now if I try to throttle up.

I am thinking fuel pump is weak, but why did it idle higher before the tune up and carb clean than it does now? is it possible the float is just sticking? there is no spring clip on this needle (none in the drawing either), the carb is a simple one, not many moving parts, and I made sure I could blow through every port, including the high speed orifice.

Any other ideas and things to check would be greatly appreciated.

Dave

 

[Daviet]

Re: 18202R idles but wont throttle up

Couple of things to check since the engine has been sitting for awhile.
Check compression, should be somewhere around 80-100 and within 10% of each other.
Check spark, i know you said you went through it, it needs to jump a 1/4" air gap and be bright blue.
If you pump the primer bulb constantly it will bypass the fuel pump, if it runs properly, look at the pump.
When you cleaned the carb, did you remove the core plug on top of the carb and clean the passages there. The static setting for the low speed jet is about 1 1/4 turn out from lightly seated. With yours at 1/3 turn out Iwould think you still have a low speed circut in the carb.

 

[webrx]

Re: 18202R idles but wont throttle up

Thanks for the response,

Sorry, should have said earlier, compression is 95 on both, spark was checked with a spark plug checker, jumps the 3/8 gap with a bright (orange) spark - oragne bulb in checker. Pumping the primer bulb seems to help a little - but not much. What really bothers me is that the idle speed against the stop is so much slower than it was prior to doing the tune and carb clean. like I cleared the air passages and now it really it si getting more air but not fuel. when I first started it after the work, it ran, throttled up, ran in gear, seemed good to go, then I let it idle for 15 minutes in a tank to give it some run time, since that time, I have not been able to get it to throttle up, every time I try it just bogs and dies.

Pulled the carb again, and cleaned it again, everything seems good. I did not have a kit, can the core plug be removed and reused or do I need to get a new one if I pull it? I am thinking about pulling the fly wheel again and checking the point gap, maybe it slipped, and that might explain the low throttle (too big a gap?).

I did pick up some clear fuel line today, and was going to see if I can blow into the carb (empty), and if that works, putting either clear hose or a fuel filter in to see fuel flow.

I am also going to try pulling the plug wires when it is warm, maybe I have a coil heating up and cutting out.

d

 

[Daviet]

Re: 18202R idles but wont throttle up

No, you cannot reuse the core plug.
You need to use an air gap tester to check spark. Are the coils set properly, even with the mounting boss flange?
Did you get the gasket around the brass tube in the middle of the float put back in?
Is the high speed orifice clean and not restricted?

 

[webrx]

Re: 18202R idles but wont throttle up

OK, isolated the issue I believe, started the motor, pulled the top plug wire, and she died. restarted and pulled the bottom plug wire and nothing. now, I know she had good spark yesterday after I did the points cuz I checked it, but, it appears either the points have slipped or the coil has gone south at this point.

Gonna take her back apart tomorrow and see what the points look like, check air gap, etc

d

 

[webrx]

Re: 18202R idles but wont throttle up

ok, dumb question, what is the difference between a spark plug tester - plugs in line between the plug and the plug wire, has an internal light that shows spark - and an air gap tester?

I have used this spark plug tester for a couple years now, and until today, it has never failed to indicate good spark. I will check in the morning to see if it still shows spark on the bottom plug, but, if it does, then I have been deluded for awhile now thinking it indicates good spark, when in fact, it might not.

I would like to be sure that my issue is spark and not something internal - seems like if it was an internal problem i.e. bad valves etc - that I would not have 95 psi of compression, but maybe I am missing something.

d

d

 

[ultra353]

Re: 18202R idles but wont throttle up

Compression sounds good, In-line tester shows that its is producing spark, air gap tester will show how strong the spark is. You really want an air gap tester, if it wont jump a 1/4" gap it wont jump it under the compression pressure.

 

[webrx]

Re: 18202R idles but wont throttle up

Thanks for the response, as it turns out, the bottom cylinder was no longer getting spark - it was when I tested it, but when I pulled the flywheel off, I found the condenser wire had broken. I repaired the wire, did a little more pinging on the brass spacer for the stator (the one under the stator) to tighten up the play a little more, and the motor fired up and ran idle still seems a little low, so I slightly adjusted the timing of the carb to open just a little sooner and that seems to have fixed the issues. She does not run 100% clean, but she does run and I had to get the low speed screw backed out ~3/4 of a turn now vice the 1/3 previously. gonna put here in the water next week (taking a spare motor too just in case).

I did order a spark gap tester, hey, if 15 bucks saves me hours of troubleshooting it is worth it. I can still use my current tester and compression checker when I am going to look at old motors to see if there is some kind of spark kind of a go/nogo test. I also ordered the adapters for motorcycle plugs (hey, needed 25 bucks for free shipping) so if I am looking at a bike I can check that as well.

Thanks for all the help, the old evinrude still may need more tweaking, but, it runs, shifts, throttles up, and seems to do all this without the spits and sputters now so that is a start.

d

 

[webrx]

Re: 18202R idles but wont throttle up

well, tested her yesterday, still having issues. she kicked right off, ran ok once warm, though still seemed week for an 18hp, after about 15 min of cruising around, we stopped her, fished a little, and when I went to start her up she spit and sputtered again, and then, she started, good faster idle, and ran ok, I am thinking I have a coil breaking down. I also noticed under full throttle she seemed to bog a little occasionally and pumping the fuel bulb helped with this. So, I have ordered a coil (one looks new, one is old) and am looking for a fuel pump rebuild kit. I can't figure out what else could cause this motor to act this way. any advice is appreciated.

D

 

[AlTn]

Re: 18202R idles but wont throttle up

in your first post you state you set the carb roller to the timing marks on the flywheel...it should be set with the timing marks on the throttle control cam which is attached to the armature plate...the main jet < orfice plug > may require cleaning with a few strands of copper wire twisted together, just make certain the twist is smaller than the jet and do not enlarge the jet's i.d....sounds like you are on the right track with the f/p and spark check

 

[webrx]

Re: 18202R idles but wont throttle up

Thanks, I did go through the carb (3 times), and all orifices are clear - wire and carb cleaner, I am pretty sure it is the coil at this point. I have the carb roller adjusted - contact between the two marks on teh throttle control cam - sorry I mis-spoke on my first post - she starts to move the throttle plate at the second mark. I am hopeful that the issue is the coil, been through everything else a few times now - should have replaced the older one when I did the points and condensers, but, live and learn.

d

 

[AlTn]

Re: 18202R idles but wont throttle up

k..pulling the flywheel gets to be old hat after 5 or 6 times < in one day, if you're like me >

 

[webrx]

Re: 18202R idles but wont throttle up

yep, been in this one at least 5 times now. Seems like it must have a coil breaking down when it warms up, or there is a wire that has a loose connection. I am gonna fine tooth comb this one this time, just waiting for the new coil to arrive. If you have other thoughts on what could be causing this issue, please post it up, I am open to suggestions.

Dave

 

[AlTn]

Re: 18202R idles but wont throttle up

I recently had a sporadic spark failure on a 1972 25 hp....wound up completely stripping the armature plate and cleaning it to like new. Found a small hole in one ground wire where the coil rested on it. Replaced that ground wire, reassembled and so far, knock on wood, spark is constant. Seems like trial and error is required at times.

 

[webrx]

Re: 18202R idles but wont throttle up

OK, I replaced the coil, made sure points were right, tightened up the stator a bit more, readjusted the carb on the cam follower, and got her running, much better than before firing on both cylinders, good idle speed, etc. Only thing left to do is get her in the water and see if she holds up. I also found while tesing continuity on the plug wires that one wire would cut in and out while wiggling it, so I cut it back and reinserted the end. Not sure if it was the coil or the plug wire, but something is better now. The old black coil had bubbles on the coating, so I figured it was bad, it looks like it had gotten hot sometime in the past and boiled the coating. She still sputtered once or twice at high speed, in the barrell, but, that was it. could be choking on smoke fumes or just needs to run a bit to get everthing smoothed out.

Thanks everyone for all the help.

Dave

 

[webrx]

Re: 18202R idles but wont throttle up

Motor is still not right, I took it on the water after replacing the coil, and fixing the plug wire, she ran decent, coughed a little at low speed, but, I was able to get my 14 foot 57 crestliner up on plane and bopping accross the water. I gave it back to the owner, and he took it to the water today - needless to say a few things went wrong.

First, he hooked his fuel line up backwards, couldnt get it to start, but eventually broke the priming bulb and it allowed fuel to flow, not sure how, but it wont prime now without a new bulb. When the cowling was put on the motor, it apparently knocked the lower plug wire loose, not off, just off enough so it would not run on that cylinder. he had a heck of a time, and his wife is now 0 for 2 in riding in the boat. she it thinking this is not a good motor, well he screwed around with it for about an hour and then used my 7.5 loaner (I let him use it as a backup) to pull his kid around on a tube. He brought it over, I showed him the arrow on the bulb, I found the loose plug wire, I readjusted the mixture, and she fired up, idled, ran in gear, and throttled up to full throttle in my 55 gallon tank. I still think there is a bad plug wire so I am going to replace both of them, gotta find some solid core and some new ends, or see if teh local evinrude dealer has wires in stock, or wires they can make.

I feel bad for my buddy, but I also feel a little bad for me on this one. I had picked up a boat, trailer (with titles), motor, all the remote linkages for throttle and steering, and I got it for $150 bucks. I have another boat, I didn't need this one, I was gonna fix and flip it for $600 or so. It had 4 small holes in the hull (someone had drilled through the bottom to install a fish finder transponder), it had sat in the sun for years, but, it was recoverable. I had just finished patching the hole when he mentioned he was looking for a cheap boat. Trying to be a good friend, I told him I had this one, and I would sell it to him for the $150 i had in it, i had patched the holes, but had not done anything else to it - and that it was a project, but, mostly cosmetic. The seats needed restapled, the paint was faded, but would sand and buff out (I had already tested a patch), the motor fired, but I had not gone through it yet. I told him once he had the cosmetics done, I would help him with the motor, thinking this would be a few weeks...., a year later, he brings the motor to me asking me to help him fix it - now you know the background to this story. The motor runs good, when it runs, nothing major wrong with it that a little more tlc and tweaking wont fix, but, man am I getting tired of seeing it in my garage.

Don't get me wrong, I am always happy to help out a friend, and I am sure we will get this straightened out eventually, I work on this old boats and motors as a hobby, because i like doing it, and I tinker on them when I feel like it, this one is starting to feel like a job. I mentioned to him today he can use the 7.5 til I get this one fixed I want this one done and fixed, without having to rush to do it.

I should have just told him up front, coils, plugs, condensers, points, fuel pump, wires - $150 in parts to fix it right, and be done with it, instead of all this troubleshooting and tweaking. We are going to get it done 1 coil, plugs, points, condensers, plug wires, for about half that, but, sometimes on these older motors it is just better to go in and replace it all, that way you know what your starting with.

Dave

 

[Daviet]

Re: 18202R idles but wont throttle up

Check your local auto parts for plug wires, 7mm solid core wire, I buy it by the foot at the auto parts store near me.

 

[webrx]

Re: 18202R idles but wont throttle up

napa was supposed to have boots, (21 of them) in stock that I needed for my 47, but they can't find them. I will check with them on wire tomorrow, I will probably get about 6 feet, cuz I am sure I will need some down the road. I can reuse the ends and boots, as they are solid, though the spring ends are a little funky and not tight, I will probably have to squeeze them down a bit.

d

 

[webrx]

Re: 18202R idles but wont throttle up

Update:

I had NAPA order me the 90 degree boots, and they had the connectors in stock. I also got some 7mm wire core plug wire so I could redo the wires. After pulling off the old spring type connectors, I found one was pretty corroded, and I could not get the engine to change RPM while the old wires were fully connected, but with the corrosion I decided to replace both plug connectors and put new boots on them. The motor ran like a champ after this, so I gotta figure replacing the coil and the plug ends was the final straw on this motor.

Buddy took it to the lake this weekend, had a great weekend, motor ran good, boat did good, even hooked into a couple fish and took his family for a cruise around the lake for a couple hours (did end up running out of gas, but I had loaned him my 7.5 as a backup so he used this to get in and get more gas). He is happy, his wife is happy, I'm happy.

Thanks so much for all the help and advice on this one, this is the most difficulty I have had working through one of these and my buddy now has a 14 foot fiberglass boat, with remote steer, throttle, and shift, and a running 18 hp motor that was humming this weekend, and a trailer to haul it around on all for a total of $400 - not bad I think.