165 not cooling, i'm surprised

[ziggy]

more cooling problem questions. 72 merc. 165 i/o, I drive.<br />cooled just fine last season (typical statement ay), new impeller in mid season last summer, perhaps 20-30 hr on new impeller. did run w/o water for maybe 720% of rotation putting lub in sparkplug holes very last thing, last season. <br />dewinterized and started on the muffs. got 0 water flow. overheated. . <br />did have drive pulled and inspected by mercrusier mid winter. <br />well, i am guessing the impeller, or restriction in hose from impeller to t-stat. <br />did take out thermostat. worked ok in a pan of water. that aint it. didn't think it was. <br />guess the question is. <br />is there cooling ramificatoins from pulling the drive? <br />and while i'm at it, can't seem to find perfect seal C-92-34227 ("clymers" says to use that on both sides of gasket)to seal the t-stat gasket. anything else to recomend? i got some locktite form-a-gasket. is it ok to use this?<br />i'm surprised i'm asking this question actually. in 720% of ratation i snapped off all the blades of the impeller?. must have, i mean 0 flow not a drop of water out block drain, manifold drain, or in t-stat houseing after pulling that. <br />i'm ready to drop the lower gear assy for a impeller inspection if that's the word, seems like the first place to look from reading iboats all winter long.... thanks folks......

 

[Laddies]

Re: 165 not cooling, i'm surprised

With a engine on muffs you should have water even if the pump is shot, there must be a stoppage in the system some where, pull the water supply hose off the thermostat hsg. to tell where it is--Bob

 

[achris]

Re: 165 not cooling, i'm surprised

ziggy,<br /><br />Easiest trick I use to see if the leg pump is working is to have someone else start the engine while you watch the water flow from the flushers. You should initally see quite a bit of water flooding out from the sides, then when the engine is running that flow should decrease significantly.<br /><br />That sort of helps eliminate one item from the troubleshooting list.<br /><br />Chris.......

 

[ziggy]

Re: 165 not cooling, i'm surprised

nope didn't see any decrease in flow. and so far aint got the hose off. looking for restrictions. hope i can take the block off the transom where the hose connects too. the hose don't want to come off and does need replaced too. <br />found pieces of impeller in the water pickup area, where the muffs go. i would have thought that the impeller pieces would have gone twards the block, not back down to the water pick up area. still working on it...

 

[achris]

Re: 165 not cooling, i'm surprised

Ziggy,<br /><br />Oh dear. Old impeller bits could be everywhere... You'll need to take the drive off, split it and clean out every passage from impeller housing to thermostat housing. Hope they haven't travelled past the thermo.<br /><br />Chris..........

 

[ziggy]

Re: 165 not cooling, i'm surprised

yep, oh dear, oh dear.....<br />that dont sound to good achris. i havn't got the drive off. but did get the lower gear assy off. yep, a half wasted impeller. got some of the bits out of the pump. doubt it was all of them though.<br />so am i understanding ya right. the drive needs to come off too? to clean out the passages? can ya access both ways then. bottom of drive to bell houseing, then forward, bellhouseing thru transom. hope that made sense.no other way than doin that? speaking of transom, i still aint got the t-stat to transom plate hose off where it goes thru the transom plate on the inside. seems like a pretty old hard hose, spose i will end up cutting it off. open for suggestions there too. i didnt see any impeller pieces at the t-stat.<br />ladyservice, i don't understand "pull the water supply hose off the thermostat hsg. to tell where it is" how that will help me find the stoppage. i do agree there was,is, could be, blockage somewhere.it would be nice to know that there is no blockage.<br />and after all that, then i reckon that i can still make no assumptions that some impeller pieces didn't get to the water passages in the block i suppose. .

 

[achris]

Re: 165 not cooling, i'm surprised

Pulling the drive off the bellhousing is easy. My record is 4 minutes. Just put it in forward gear, remove the aft ends of the trim rams, six nuts and pull. It'll come off in your hand..... If it don't, GENTLY use a lever, like a screwdriver (did I say that!!??) or small tyre lever and pry it off. You'll need to take it off to clean out the passages in the top unit and bellhousing through to that hose you can't get off. Good luck on that one. Lucky for you Mercruiser hadn't gone cheap and plastic when your engine was built. The tube that stuck hose goes on is copper, later units are plastic.<br /><br />Chris...........

 

[ziggy]

Re: 165 not cooling, i'm surprised

well, i will do what i have to do. but, <br />why can't run water from the t-stat hose backward and flush it out backward. just let the water run out the drive? flushing out any pieces of the leftover impeller. i know i've been instructed as to what to do. but i just had to ask. is this a bad idea?

 

[achris]

Re: 165 not cooling, i'm surprised

That would probably work. But when I'm dealing with customers boat's, 'probably' isn't close enough. If you have the patience to back flush and then re-test, go ahead, just be aware you may end up pulling it all apart anyway. Just make sure you use a good amount of pressure to really give yourself a chance.

 

[ziggy]

Re: 165 not cooling, i'm surprised

thanks achris, i understand, "probably" wouldn't be close enough for the customer. i do have patience though, so did try the hose thing. did use good amount of pressure. restriction on end of hose. hosed er out both directions, did get impeller bits and pieces. good flow and runs clean now, no more bit's and pieces comeing out either direction. <br />new question though. , seems that i have a gasket leak at the bottom water pocket cover assy where the water tube fits into the drive shaft houseing. reckon i need to replace the gasket. where does the water go when it leaves the water tube connecting the lower gear assy, to the drive shaft houseing. i aint had that apart, yet. is it just a water pocket that leads to the water pocket exit into the bell houseing. what are the ramification of the gasket leak? <br />man, my dewinterization aint going to well. oh well, as the one fellow says here. nothing more fun that messing around with boats.

 

[achris]

Re: 165 not cooling, i'm surprised

You gotta fix that gasket leak!!! If you don't then when you're happily motoring along, exhaust gases get into the cooling system, then it isn't a cooling system anymore. <br /><br />Don't buy just the gasket, the cover itself is plastic, and they get hot and distort. Get the whole kit, it cheap enough. part # is -54235A2 They are about $23 from www.mercruiserparts.com <br /><br />Be prepared for some fun. The 4 s/s screws don't like leaving home. I find the easiest way is to go in with a oxy torch, melt the plastic away from the screws and try and deal with them one at a time, lots of heat, lots of patience.<br /><br />Good luck. (you're going to need it)<br /><br />Chris...............

 

[FreeBeeTony]

Re: 165 not cooling, i'm surprised

I replaced my cover and gasket this winter........guess I was lucky, the bolts came out pretty easily. I used anti-sieze when I installed new assembly........<br /><br />How did you know this gasket was leaking?

 

[ziggy]

Re: 165 not cooling, i'm surprised

hum, and the fun continues, in between the rain too, <br />thanks for the link achris. yep, looks just like what i got from the pic.<br />hope my screws come out easy like yers did freebeetony. so far i aint counteing on that though. oxy heat ay. bummer, i don't have access to that. we'll see what happens. i got a heat gun.....and a propane torch.....<br />freebeetony, found it with the high pressure water i guess. ya can see the water leaking aound the gasket when applying the water. a pretty fast dribble dribble dribble. thanks guys, will let ya know what breaks next. murphy's been after me all week too. <br />

 

[ziggy]

Re: 165 not cooling, i'm surprised

hi folks, looks like now i'm gettin ready to have some real fun. <br />you were lucky, or very skilled freebeetony, and you were right on achris. on the cover assy for the waterpump tube, part #54235A, so far got 2 broke bolts, one came out, one still not removed, probably gonna break it. did use heat, but must not have been enough.<br />it don't seem like i have many options here. no room for mistakes. looks like a 1/4-20 bolt has to replace it. don't look like room for a helicoil. is there?<br />any suggestions as to where to go now. <br />i guess i'm already going actually. hope i didn't blow it but did get one of the broke SS bolts drilled out. looks like a bottoming tap will be nessesary to retap it, if i can find something to drive it with. another question arises to me now. any ramifications of chaseing a SS screw, in alumimun? <br />now i'm venturing, hope to gain something

 

[achris]

Re: 165 not cooling, i'm surprised

Jim,<br /><br />You got lucky, believe it or not! With one bolt out you have an anchor point for a jig. Just get a piece of steel, about 3/4" thick, and cut and drill it exactly the same as the new cover. Put it in place and use the one screw hole to secure it in position. Then use this a guide for drilling ready to put in Helicoils. Be really careful about the drilling, if you go off centre, the aluminium is not very forgiving.<br /><br />Good luck.<br /><br />Chris..........

 

[ziggy]

Re: 165 not cooling, i'm surprised

thanks achris. maybe i've saved my upper driveshaft houseing. used your jig idea and lots of patience. stretched all my skills for drilling. man themz are hard SS bolts. and per near impossible to get at. must have taken 10-15 hours to do. including chaseing long drill bits, blocks of cold rolled steel, and taps. i hope it works. i got three heli-coils in place now & my one good hole. time to get a waterpocket cover on order and see if it works. then back onto the impeller i hope. i'm getting closer maybe. thanks again for the help. hum, i started this project on april 4. only 23 days later and i'm finally gettin back onto the impeller problem. bummer, that was a time consuming 3 broke bolts. jim

 

[brentchalmers]

Re: 165 not cooling, i'm surprised

Why do you need to be in forward to remove the stern drive. the calbe that goes from the transom plate to the lower unit broke and I can't put it in forward and I can't figure out how to disconnect the cable before i REMOVE shift cable. what happens if I remove everthing with it in neutral. Please let me know. Thaks.

 

[achris]

Re: 165 not cooling, i'm surprised

Brent,<br /><br />Suggest you start a new thread. But briefly, the reason is so the intermediate shift shaft is lined up fwd-aft so it will slide apart. If you lift the drive up and look underneath you'll see the coupling point. With someone else turning the prop slowly ccw you should be able to move the linkages to get it into forward. It ain't gonna be easy!<br /><br />Chris...........

 

[ziggy]

Re: 165 not cooling, i'm surprised

success on the waterpocket cover. in place and torqued down to 37 inch lbs. yeah, some success, thanks guys for the input for sure..... i ain't there yet, but think it's looking hopefull. 1 problem down. a couple to go..