150 force tilt & trim

[johnny acorn]

Trim works, tilt doesn't. Disconnected lines from pump, drained all fluid, manually moved motor up and down, reconnected lines, refilled. Trim works but when trim maxes motor won't tilt on up. Feels like it just hits something solid. Pump is running but motor won't move. Any ideas of problem?

 

[Jiggz]

There are three different T&T that I know of used by Force. Can you post a pic of your T&T just to make sure we refer to the same type?

 

[johnny acorn]

Having trouble uploading pics.

 

[johnny acorn]

Can someone help me on upload of pics. Tried 3 times. 1st time selected upload and pics came up. Selected pics and then open. Photos closed but I didn't see them upload.

 

[Jiggz]

I think the forum requires you to have at least 5 posts before it'll let you upload photos. Try commenting again to make 5 posts and then on the 6th one try uploading again.

 

[jerryjerry05]

It also helps if you include the year, model # and serial#
Sometime if the pics don't load they need to be resized.
Like Jiggz said 5 posts to add pics.

If the T@T only moves to a certain spot and stops working?
The older models the tilt ram, the seals might be bad?
Any water in the oil?

The pivot bolt greased?

 

[Zink357]

And there's no leaks anywhere? Motor must be shot if it can't lift the engine and everything is hooked up correctly with no leaks.

 

[johnny acorn]

Jiggz, thank you for your prompt reply. Tells me pic exceeds quota. I will make more posts and try again. Will try to describe so you might know which TT. 2 wires from outboard to TT. TT is mounted on outside of starboard outboard bracket with cyl. mounted inside outboard brackets. TT has 2 bolts and nut mounting it with 1 bolt behind pump that cannot be accessed w/o removing outboard from boat. I do not have Model # nor Serial #, they have been scratched off. I will keep trying to upload pics. Thank you so much.

 

[johnny acorn]

jerryjerry05, No model or serial # on motor. There was water in oil. Pivot bolt is free.. Boat has been sitting outdoors over 10 years. Drained, can tilt motor manually with lines removed, can't with lines attached. Refilled. Same prob. Trim works fine. Motor runs both directions even after trim reaches max. Thank you for your help. Will upload pics when can.

 

[johnny acorn]

Zink357, no leaks, oil changed, hooked up correctly. Motor runs. It is like it hits a solid stop after trim and when tilt should start. Thank you for helping.

 

[johnny acorn]

[No message]

 

[johnny acorn]

I think motor is around a 1990 year model.

 

[Jiggz]

Looks like you have this type of T&T. If it is, note the following terminologies:

Upper (or raise) trim or tilt lines refer to hydraulic lines that connect from the Valve Body to the bottom of each cylinder, i.e. trim or tilt.

Lower trim or tilt lines refer to hydraulic lines that connect from the Valve Body to the top of the each cylinder.

Valve Body (VB) is the actual pump that houses both the pump and the check valves (shuttle valve and two spool valves)

Since the trim cylinder works but not the tilt cylinder, here's a test you can do to isolate the problem:
You will need a 3/16” brass cap and also a 3/16” plug. Both are available at Ace Hardware or some auto stores.
Step 1: Test the tilt cylinder for leak down

1. Raise the tilt cylinder fully and then support the motor with a suitable block
2. Relieve pressure by slightly tilting down, MAKE SURE THIS STEP IS DONE BEFORE CONTINUING!!!
3. Disconnect “raise” line from pump assembly connecting to the bottom of tilt cylinder
4. Cap line with the female brass cap and also the valve body port
5. Remove block support from gearcase
6. Mark across the swivel and stern bracket with a marker to note movement. This may take a few minutes to about 30 minutes to see movement or leak down
7. If leak down is noted, replace tilt cylinder or in your case rebuild it.

Since in your case the tilt cylinder will not come up, try manually raising the motor by having someone push the UP button while you manually raise the motor. If motor raises, continue placing a support block of wood to hold motor in place.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Did you disconnect any hoses when working on the system?
It almost sounds like maybe 2 lines were crossed?

 

[Zink357]

Jiggz, he's not having a leakdown problem so what will your test help with? Not being a D, just curious.

I thought the same thing as Jerry. I have the exact same TT. Here’s mine. If it's hooked up properly then I would still assume motor is shot.

 

[Jiggz]

You are probably correct, the motor is shot. And there's no need to troubleshoot and just get a new motor. And if the problem persists, then just get an entirely new system.

I'm quite sure the OP already took note of your suggestion and will consider it in due time.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Leakdown test can isolate if the trim is bad or the tilt is bad????
I think the whole test is in the top posts?

 

[Jiggz]

It's already given the Trim is working and obviously the motor is turning providing hyd pressure to this cylinder! In fact, personally, I can already surmised the tilt cylinder (90 percent) is bad but I still want the OP to do the test for learning purposes and at the same time providing the logic or reasoning why. Because there is a good chance the spool valves could also be faulty unable to handle higher hyd pressure. Instead of just guessing what is wrong with it.

As for the hyd lines being connected inadvertently, these hyd lines are made of stainless tubing and it would take serious level of foolishness, even intentionally, to inadvertently connect them to the wrong port.

 

[jerryjerry05]

I've seen the line swap done.

Guy calls me and says: got a new 300$ pump and motor.
Was a B*&^% hooking up and still not working right.

 

[Zink357]

Like I said, not being a D. I am also here to learn from you guys that know what you're talking about. I really was curious what the test was for in his case. My god. Another know-it-all that gets panties in a bunch when some newbie asks the wrong questions.

Seems odd that he can lift the motor manually with lines disconnected, but it gets stuck when trying to use the motor. I don't know anything about the valves in the pump, but I guess an O-ring could be blown inside the tilt cyl. That is a cheap/easy fix if you can get the cap off without wrecking it. Your leakdown test would diagnose that I assume?

Disclaimer: I am not an outboard mechanic like Jerry and Jiggz. Just a guy that fixes all of his own broken ****, so take my opinion FWIW.