125 Force Outboard won’t achieve full power

Dokmaster

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Feb 6, 2022
Messages
4
Hello,
I have a Force outboard that is having issues achieving full power. I am able to start her right up and she idles fine but when I put her into gear she runs rough and hiccups.
As I progress past the 2000rpm mark she smooths out but then will not go past 3000-3500rpms, (usually WOT is around 5000).
I have cleaned the carbs, checked fuel lines and fuel filter. At first, I thought it was spark so I just put in brand new spark plugs.
Gas has been replaced as well. Compression good on all four cylinders.
I noticed recently when running it on muffs that the exhaust was sputtering. This may be normal on muffs but I couldn’t tell. See below link for video of the exhaust sputter:

 

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racerone

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Post your compression numbers tested today. -----Might be running on 3 of 4 cylinders.----Test spark.-----Check fuel pump diaphragm too.
 

jerryjerry05

Supreme Mariner
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May 7, 2008
Messages
18,050
Like racerone said maybe running on 3 cyl.
Spark test each cylinder.
Always list compression numbers.
Then do the starting fluid test: start motor, spray sf around the intake side, including the 4 port covers and around the carbs, etc. if the spray makes the motor run different then it's sucking air and the gasket is bad.
One backfire, sneeze, cough can blow a port cover gasket and blow the diaphragm in the fuel pump.
Also check the gas for water????
Tug test on the trigger leads: the trigger has very skinny wires and the connection at the buss bar can break and cause problems: pull each lead and see if the wire comes loose? Yes?? then replace ALL the connectors.
 

WinnerCougar74

Petty Officer 1st Class
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May 12, 2020
Messages
238
This year I am going to use 2 fuel pump diaphrams because they seem so fragile. My motor coughs and backfires fairly often an I have had a single fuel pump diaphragm break open. I think the fuel pump is a week link.
 

jerryjerry05

Supreme Mariner
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May 7, 2008
Messages
18,050
Frequent coughs and backfires? I've found the port cover gaskets are the usual culprit for frequent coughs, backfires and sneezing.
Do what Racer suggested then the starting fluid test before more damage is done.
I bought a 21 with twin 88/85 hp. Forces.
Neither one ran and I decided to do some checking, BOTH motors had 2 diaphragms in the pump.
My guess is the previous owner was an offshore fisherman(he told me he did) and didn't want the one diaphragm to go bad 80 mi offshore??
 

racerone

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I would install two 88 HP model Johnson / Evinrude pumps.-----Diaphragms do not rupture on those.-----A little bit of effort for a permanent fix !!
 

Dokmaster

Recruit
Joined
Feb 6, 2022
Messages
4
Like racerone said maybe running on 3 cyl.
Spark test each cylinder.
Always list compression numbers.
Then do the starting fluid test: start motor, spray sf around the intake side, including the 4 port covers and around the carbs, etc. if the spray makes the motor run different then it's sucking air and the gasket is bad.
One backfire, sneeze, cough can blow a port cover gasket and blow the diaphragm in the fuel pump.
Also check the gas for water????
Tug test on the trigger leads: the trigger has very skinny wires and the connection at the buss bar can break and cause problems: pull each lead and see if the wire comes loose? Yes?? then replace ALL the connectors.
Thanks everyone for your comments. Sorry for the delayed response. Just getting my boat ready for the year and getting back to this issue. Here is what I have done:

- compression test
121-127-125-124
- timing light / adjustment to make sure it was at 30deg past TDC cranking (followed iboats tutorial)
- checked fuel diaphragm and it was in rough condition, see below picture. Do you think this would be enough to cause the loss of power?

Going to do the sf test and check carbs and sparks again since it’s been sitting all winter. It wasn’t water in the fuel tank as I drained the tank and added fresh fuel already.
Will post findings.
 

Dokmaster

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Here is the diaphragm
 

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Redbarron%%

Chief Petty Officer
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Dec 7, 2017
Messages
479
A tee in the fuel line for a pressure gauge will tell you a lot. Low fuel flow that limits power means that the mixture might be lean and that could mean burned pistons.
I check for spark on all cylinders using my induction timing light to see that enough current is being dumped into the plug to fire. Not 100%, but some indication if it is completely dead.
Also make sure that the carb butterflies are 100 % open. sometimes it is hard to get the timing right and the throttles working in sync.
 

The Force power

Commander
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Feb 3, 2019
Messages
2,349
Here's a old post (from the late Frank) that I have printed out & live by;
1.Disconnect the ball link to the carb cam at the timing tower. Disconnecting at the cam risks bending the cam. Move the cam away from the carb roller.
2. Loosen the screw(s) on the aluminum tie bar and let all carbs close completely, then tighten again.
3. Set the cam so that the scribed line is pointing directly at the black roller on the carb lever. If the cam has two closely spaced lines, set the black roller directly between them.
4. The black roller is held with an offset screw and nut. Loosen the nut and turn the screw until the black roller JUST touches the cam. Tighten the nut and re-attach the ball link maintaining the scribed line at the roller.
5. Adjust the ball link so that at full throttle the bottom carb butterfly opens substantially horizontally. Adjust the aluminum tie bar so all carb butterflies open equally at full throttle. They need not be perfect but should be rather close to horizontal for best performance.
6. Adjust timing to 28 degrees before top dead center at full throttle. ( STATIC TIMING / CRANKING SPEED )
7. Adjust idle speed to 700-750 RPM in the water in forward gear. Do this with the screw on the bottom of the timing tower. Loosen the locknut and adjust. Screwing in increases idle speed. Do this in small increments and let the engine rev and adjust itself before the next adjustment. A little goes a long way here. When correct, tighten the nut. Note that the scribed line on the roller will now be (usually) below the black roller a bit.
8. NOW we adjust the mixture on the carbs. Set all low speed needles to about 1 1/4 turns out from lightly seated. Do not force as this will damage either the needles or the seats.
8A. With the engine idling in neutral, turn each the needles in equally about 1/8 turn at a time. Give the engine a couple of seconds between each adjustment to stabilize. Adjust until the engine either "sags" or stalls. Note this setting.
8B. Now go the opposite direction. Adjust until the engine runs rough, burbles, or stalls. Note this setting.
8C. Set all needles to the average between the two settings: That is, for example, if it stalled at 3/4 turn out and burbled at 1 1/4 out then set all needles to 1 turn out.
8D. Readjust idle speed to 700-750 RPM.
9. Take the boat out on the water and do a "hole shot"--Full throttle acceleration from a stop. If the engine "sags" then recovers and picks-up it is too lean. Open the needles about 1/16 turn at a time until the engine accelerates with no hesitation.
If the engine sputters or coughs or burbles, then clears itself and accelerates, it is too rich. Close the needles about 1/16 turn at a time until the engine accelerates smoothly.

10. I can NOT stress this enough! NEVER set the low speed needles less that 1 turns out no matter how poor the idle or acceleration. To do so will run the engine too lean and detonation and melted pistons at or near full throttle operation will result.
 

racerone

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Not sure how a lean low speed mixture can destroy / cause melted pistons on a motor.
 

racerone

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How can the low speed mixture being too lean , cause a melted piston ??
 

The Force power

Commander
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How can the low speed mixture being too lean , cause a melted piston ??
In theory your right (I can't explain that, maybe todays fuel and/or the low set does affect the amount of fuel at high speed) however I'm sticking with it
 

Nordin

Commander
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Jun 12, 2010
Messages
2,570
The low speed circuit are acting even when high speed.
The Wallboro and Tillotson carbs on Chrysler/Force are working like that.
 
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