04 Sea Ray 180 Speedometer Question

[HiTekRedNek]

I had a new engine installed in my 2004 Sea Ray 180. Prior to the work, the speedometer worked. Now it does not. I put my mouth over the pitot opening and blew into it. I could hear air escaping somewhere near the bellows. I have a 3.0L and Alpha One, Gen II Drive.

Is there a connection in the bellows area that the mechanic may have knocked/left loose? I want to get the speedo working as it's the only link to how the boat performed before the work was done.

It indicated top speed of 42 mph trimmed out on calm water before it went in the shop. Now that I've had it worked on I only have GPS speed to go by (which I realize is more accurate) and with about 350 lbs of human cargo, I can't quite get 30 mph out of it. My goal is to have some sort of apples to apples comparison for before and after. Due to my inexperience, the only "before" data point is the speed indicated by the speedo. Didn't have GPS, and didn't note the tach reading before. Hence the need to get that speedometer working again. Thanks!

 

[Scott Danforth]

plug the pitot tube back together

 

[Scott06]

I had a new engine installed in my 2004 Sea Ray 180. Prior to the work, the speedometer worked. Now it does not. I put my mouth over the pitot opening and blew into it. I could hear air escaping somewhere near the bellows. I have a 3.0L and Alpha One, Gen II Drive.

Is there a connection in the bellows area that the mechanic may have knocked/left loose? I want to get the speedo working as it's the only link to how the boat performed before the work was done.

It indicated top speed of 42 mph trimmed out on calm water before it went in the shop. Now that I've had it worked on I only have GPS speed to go by (which I realize is more accurate) and with about 350 lbs of human cargo, I can't quite get 30 mph out of it. My goal is to have some sort of apples to apples comparison for before and after. Due to my inexperience, the only "before" data point is the speed indicated by the speedo. Didn't have GPS, and didn't note the tach reading before. Hence the need to get that speedometer working again. Thanks!

yeah easy to leave off on a Gen 2 alpha drive there is a connection here the speedo tube clicks into the drive as the pick up port is in the front of the drive. I have forgotten it many times.

It is just in front of the shift shaft lift drive all the way up you will see it. there is a little grey or white button to push in to release it

 

[HiTekRedNek]

Thanks, Scott! I found the tube and connector. As you suspected they were not attached. Next time I get on the water, I should be able to collect "after" data points for indicated speed with the dashboard speedo. It seems slow to get out of the hole, and as I wrote, the top speed sucks. I had a helluva time with the outfit that installed the engine. Half a dozen major squawks. When Spring comes, I'll warm her up and run every diagnostic I can think of to get this boat up to speed.

 

[Scott06]

Thanks, Scott! I found the tube and connector. As you suspected they were not attached. Next time I get on the water, I should be able to collect "after" data points for indicated speed with the dashboard speedo. It seems slow to get out of the hole, and as I wrote, the top speed sucks. I had a helluva time with the outfit that installed the engine. Half a dozen major squawks. When Spring comes, I'll warm her up and run every diagnostic I can think of to get this boat up to speed.

Don't get hung up on the in dash speedo , one of the most useless features on any boat, horribly inaccurate. Get a GPS app for your phone. Quite likely the 42 on the 'dreamometer' was inaccurate.

So they swapped the engine - what are you getting in terms of WOT rpm? good to check the tach vs a shop tach...

30 seems very slow, I think my 3.0 powered Sea Ray 170 (1991) which is lighter was good for 38-40 mph max. is the 30 trimmed out ? Might be worth checking the ignition timing should be getting somewhere around 12-15 at idle (it will move around a bit unless locked in base mode) and should be 26 or 28 at 3 k rpms. This is assumes it is carbureted not MPI

 

[HiTekRedNek]

Don't get hung up on the in dash speedo , one of the most useless features on any boat, horribly inaccurate. Get a GPS app for your phone. Quite likely the 42 on the 'dreamometer' was inaccurate.

So they swapped the engine - what are you getting in terms of WOT rpm? good to check the tach vs a shop tach...

30 seems very slow, I think my 3.0 powered Sea Ray 170 (1991) which is lighter was good for 38-40 mph max. is the 30 trimmed out ? Might be worth checking the ignition timing should be getting somewhere around 12-15 at idle (it will move around a bit unless locked in base mode) and should be 26 or 28 at 3 k rpms. This is assumes it is carbureted not MPI

Yeah, I know the dash speedo is inaccurate. But I'm banking on it being consistently inaccurate. It topped at "indicated" 42 before. So whether that's really 30, 35 or 40 doesn't matter. If I get it out and the dash speedo says 42 I'll know the new engine is matching the old one, even if the gps tells me I'm doing 32. I think the engine currently tops out at 3300 with the original 21' pitch prop. Boating Magazine tested a 180 Sport exactly like mine. They got 44.1 mph top speed at 4800 rpm with the same engine and prop that I have. So I'm pretty sure it's a) ignition timing b) stale gas c) carburetor issue d) intake manifold vacuum leak or an internal engine problem like blown head gasket, poorly ground valves, etc. I paid good money to get a new (not rebuilt) engine installed. But I'm not taking it to them for diagnosis. I'll take care of that. I'm new to boats, but I'm a damned good automobile and motorcycle mechanic. When you strip away the boat specific stuff, it's the same-o same-o. Thanks again for your help!

 

[Scott06]

Yeah, I know the dash speedo is inaccurate. But I'm banking on it being consistently inaccurate. It topped at "indicated" 42 before. So whether that's really 30, 35 or 40 doesn't matter. If I get it out and the dash speedo says 42 I'll know the new engine is matching the old one, even if the gps tells me I'm doing 32. I think the engine currently tops out at 3300 with the original 21' pitch prop. Boating Magazine tested a 180 Sport exactly like mine. They got 44.1 mph top speed at 4800 rpm with the same engine and prop that I have. So I'm pretty sure it's a) ignition timing b) stale gas c) carburetor issue d) intake manifold vacuum leak or an internal engine problem like blown head gasket, poorly ground valves, etc. I paid good money to get a new (not rebuilt) engine installed. But I'm not taking it to them for diagnosis. I'll take care of that. I'm new to boats, but I'm a damned good automobile and motorcycle mechanic. When you strip away the boat specific stuff, it's the same-o same-o. Thanks again for your help!

I would not expect it to be consistently inaccurate. My current searay 200 sport 5.0 has shown at light load WOT trimmed out anywhere between 44 and 56 on the dreamometer, gps is consistently 46-48

To your point may prove out a are we 'in between the ditches' before and after. Just be careful comparing to magazine articles as they never seem to do the same in the real world.

Assuming they didnt change the drive too ? Rule out the low hanging fruit with compression test, timing, verify the tach & see what the plugs look like. if it is a new GM marine base engine vs reman only thing that may have gone wrong is timing and maybe cam break in... fuel delivery or lack there of is always a potential issue. While it may be able to swing a 21" I think your overall performance (holeshot etc) would be better with a 19".

Are you at altitude?

 

[HiTekRedNek]

I would not expect it to be consistently inaccurate. My current searay 200 sport 5.0 has shown at light load WOT trimmed out anywhere between 44 and 56 on the dreamometer, gps is consistently 46-48

To your point may prove out a are we 'in between the ditches' before and after. Just be careful comparing to magazine articles as they never seem to do the same in the real world.

Assuming they didnt change the drive too ? Rule out the low hanging fruit with compression test, timing, verify the tach & see what the plugs look like. if it is a new GM marine base engine vs reman only thing that may have gone wrong is timing and maybe cam break in... fuel delivery or lack there of is always a potential issue. While it may be able to swing a 21" I think your overall performance (holeshot etc) would be better with a 19".

Are you at altitude?

Thanks for the reply! I haven't had time to jump back on the boat issues this past week. I did find a possible culprit to the problem. The engine was hard to start (cold) so I popped the air cleaner off and found the choke flap was stuck about halfway open. A shot of penetrant/lube and a bit of working the flap got it working freely as it should be. My last time out, the fuel consumption seemed high so the stuck flap very well could have had it running rich at WOT. I'll pull the plugs today and check for carbon fouling. As you suggested, I plan to check the timing, but I need to double check the index mark on the balancer to make sure TDC is really TDC. I rebuilt a 2.3L turbo charged Mustang engine years back and during assembly I found the mark on the balancer had shifted 4 or 5 degrees. So I'll be checking that as well. I don't know how the shop treated the engine when they first fired it up. I know that since I picked it up, I've made sure not to run at a consistent RPM, instead varying the throttle so that new camshaft and other parts should be broke in evenly throughout the RPM and load range. Planning dry and wet compression tests as well. If there's anything mechanically wrong with the engine, these diagnostics should identify the issue. And no, I'm not really at any significant altitude. It averages about 1000' AMSL here in Northern Wisconsin. Thanks again for the good advice!