Runs perfect but electric start is dead!!!

cjkerns

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1990 30hp evinrude tiller.<br /><br />Died on the water. No noise or reaction when pressing start button. Took a piece of wire (left in boat from running lights)and put one end to the wire straight from battery. Then touched the other end of wire to the + side of the starter and it fired right up. Took it home and this is what I got. <br /><br />Runs perfect.<br /><br />Tested things with Fluke elec analyzer.<br /><br />Starter button works <br /><br />Put new relay on (thought that was problem but still nothing).<br /><br />Starter itself works (when I jumped it ,it worked fine.)<br /><br />Stupid move on my part *last* time working on it(last year when you all diagnosed bad coil )was ,I left battery hooked up and something happened that now allows it to start in gear.But this never stopped it from starting.<br /><br />Checked the wires to the relay and found:<br />Top post with one large red wire and two small red wires,still hooked to post were +. <br /> <br />Going down to next post which is small and has a yellow/red strip is dead even when mashing start button. Red wire that runs with this wire is one of the ones going to the top post.<br /><br />Going down to next post yellow/red stripe wire is + only when mashing start button. Red wire running with this wire also goes to the top post.<br /><br />Bottom is large red wire going to the starter which is dead all the time.<br /><br />Hope this helps, thanks in advance!!!
 

12Footer

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Re: Runs perfect but electric start is dead!!!

Ooops.. wrong engine, belay my previous post(edited).<br />The solenoid (relay) could still be defective, but you are not getting "start" 12volts to it.<br />The part that allows it to staert in gear can be found at the base of the throttle/shift linkage,and will be a black switch, that looks luike a micro switch on steroids, with two wires comming from it, The switch WAS shorted, but now , may have opened up from usage.<br />Your ignition switch checks-out? Look for 12VDC from start post.
 

cjkerns

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Re: Runs perfect but electric start is dead!!!

I'm getting like 12.6 volts from the wire tip that comes from the battery and I get 12 volts from the yellow/red stripe wire (3rd post down)when I push start button.
 

cjkerns

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Re: Runs perfect but electric start is dead!!!

I've been down there looking some more but i can't figure it out. <br /><br />I checked the push button that starts it and it checked OK .<br /> The battery is sending plenty of juice to the relay. <br /><br />I would like for someone to atleast verify that the relay wires are right. I put them back the same way they were but still want to make sure??? :confused:
 

John Reynolds

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Re: Runs perfect but electric start is dead!!!

What kind of meter are you using? When using a digital voltmeter, you can still be reading full voltage, but have a bad connection. That’s because of the high input impedance of digital voltmeters, which is in the millions of ohms. You can have a bad connection in the thousands of ohms, which acts like a resister in series (in line) with one of the wires the voltmeter connects to. The high input impedance of the voltmeter is it’s resistance, and if the difference between the meter and the circuit you are measuring is low, then you will read close to the source voltage. But if you are using an analog voltmeter meter, can you hear of feel the relay kicking in? try putting voltage direct to the relay, then see if the relay activates, and if that in turn cranks the starter. To test the wiring for a bad connection, it would be best to put some kind of load on it that will pull a little current. You might try a 12 volt light, like one for a car. If you read normal voltage with the meter, but it won’t light up a light or not very well, then you have something offering resistance that’s limiting the current. The starter/solenoid requires a LOT of current.
 

petryshyn

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Re: Runs perfect but electric start is dead!!!

Make these two checks. If there is 12 volts at each check when attempting to crank, the safety switch, wire or connection is at fault....<br /><br />
solenoid.gif
 

cjkerns

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Re: Runs perfect but electric start is dead!!!

My set up has another wire not shown here. It is a small red wire that is hooked to the large post On top of the selenoid in the picture you sent and it goes to a bar that has many wires and all those wires head up under the flywheel.<br /><br />Going by the picture above the top large post has 12 volts continually and the upper small post has 12 when I mash the start button. The others stayed dead the hole time.
 

petryshyn

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Re: Runs perfect but electric start is dead!!!

>Does the relay click when attempting to start?<br /><br />>You say you replaced the relay. Where did you get the new one? Do we know for sure it is the proper one? There are many that look the same but are wired differently internally....<br /><br />do this last test while attempting to crank....<br /><br />
sol2.gif
 

cjkerns

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Re: Runs perfect but electric start is dead!!!

It makes no sound at all when the start button is mashed. I got the relay from NAPA where I was sent last year by a local marine mechanic to get the last one. I put one on it last year and accidentlly let my wrench hit two connections and when I first hit the start button then it wouldn't respond then I hit it again and it fired and has ever since til now this year its not firing. So thats why I replaced it is because I thought I may have damaged it then. But now the new one didn't help and I diconnected it from the battery to install this one. I laid the old one on the counter and told the man it was for an evinrude outboard. And he directly turned, pulled it off the shelf,gave it to me and it looks exactly the same.
 

cjkerns

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Re: Runs perfect but electric start is dead!!!

The test from your last picture gave me no reading at all!! What does that mean???
 

petryshyn

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Re: Runs perfect but electric start is dead!!!

It means you likely have no ground for the solenoid coil. Try a jumper to see if it cranks...<br /><br />
jumper.gif
 

John Reynolds

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Re: Runs perfect but electric start is dead!!!

Greetings; <br />Having a wiring diagram helps! Try taking a pair of wires straight from the battery to the relay. The relay is nothing but a coil of wire, forming an electromagnet, which closes a switch. Electricity must flow from ground (negative) then apparently through a safety switch, then through the relay coil, then through the push button switch, then to the positive side of the battery. To troubleshoot, you need to bypass some stuff. You bypass everything by taking a pair of wires straight from the battery to the relay. Try bypassing the safety switch by taking a wire straight from a ground point or the negative side of the battery. It sure looks like the relay circuit is messed up. Gotta try to get that relay to kick in somehow if it will!
 

cjkerns

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Re: Runs perfect but electric start is dead!!!

Well I tried bypassing the safety switch and hooked a wire to the ground side of battery to the relay and still no click no nothing. I'm beginning to believe I bought a dud relay!! What do you guys think???
 

petryshyn

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Re: Runs perfect but electric start is dead!!!

If you are getting low or no voltage when you do the last voltage test, then its a supply problem, not likely a relay problem. If you've bypassed the ground and still no relay click, leave the jumper installed, and try installing another jumper from the other small terminal to battery positive. If it cranks, look for bad button switch or wiring to it.....
 

cjkerns

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Re: Runs perfect but electric start is dead!!!

Well the problem seems to be the safety switch. I checked the button ,directly hooked to the battery and a 12 volt flounder light and the start button. The button was OK. So, then I took off the safety switch and included it into the combination and the light didn't light so I think that is the culpret. It's funny, because on the motor it checked out on the meter. My meter has a setting where you can touch the tongs together and you get a beeping tone and when applied to the safety switch it beeped but it sure would'nt light a 12 volt light.<br /><br />One more question: The diagram above. Is the wires to go to those particular post or could it be different. When I took it apart the constant hot side was on top and going down next was the safety wire then the starter button wire on the next post and the starter wire itself on the bottom big wire. Just noticed it in your pics I was going to put it back the way it was but thought I better ask because it may work either way and I want it back the way it should be not justn the way it was. <br /><br />Like this order:<br />The way it was<br /><br />1 hot big wire<br />2safety switch wire<br />3start button wire<br />4wire to the starter<br /><br />Way shown in diagram:<br /><br />1 hot big wire<br />2start button wire<br />3safety switch wire<br />4wire to the starter<br /><br />Very big thanks to Schematic,John, and 12 footer. By the way great diagrams Schematic, they were a big help!!! ;) :D
 

petryshyn

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Re: Runs perfect but electric start is dead!!!

It really doesn't matter how the small terminal leads are installed. Either way will work. The beep test on your meter will beep even when a 200 ohm resistance is measured (not reliable for this kind of testing)
 
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