Merc 250 Verado Fuel increase

[alldodge]

Just found the fuses

 

[alldodge]

Checked fuse and it's good
Run test with just starboard running and it does get louder, it's just not as quite as port motor. Also did tested the ASC with Techmate and it passed, so no real problem. Will go back down in a bit to see if it actually reads the AEV or ASC parameter

Did find another Fault 4602 which I think is the low voltage
Took a bunch of pics to send to Odyssey to find out if they can determine did my $200 charger damage $900 (edit) $1713 worth of Bats

 

[Pmt133]

I'm not incredibly familiar with the terminology nor am I sure I am remembering correctly but... Last year weren't you seeing a difference on the DataStream with the exhaust open/closed at wide open or something to that effect? (I would expect that to make a difference normally, but just reading through I thought I remembered that happening) I don't suspect that is your issue, just found it interesting if I was remembering correctly that you seem to be seeing a sound difference between the two engines with it open/closed as well now....

 

[alldodge]

I'm not incredibly familiar with the terminology nor am I sure I am remembering correctly but... Last year weren't you seeing a difference on the DataStream with the exhaust open/closed at wide open or something to that effect? (I would expect that to make a difference normally, but just reading through I thought I remembered that happening)

I'm not remembering anything with a datastream issue, but being old and suffering from CRS doesn't help

The motors are said to have no effect on performance with the exhaust open or closed

 

[Pmt133]

I'm not remembering anything with a datastream issue, but being old and suffering from CRS doesn't help

The motors are said to have no effect on performance with the exhaust open or closed

That's what I'm remembering. Drop in load or commanded load or something that seemed to contradict the "no performance change" lol. Not a data stream issue.

Most likely a nothing burger but reading through this is thought I may have remembered something critical when in fact, I just remembered something.

 

[alldodge]

Oh that's demand liner, demand, and demand Guardian
I will use those readings to find out if my change it props is a good or bad thing. I do like the way the Mirage props bit better backing up over the Rev4

@muc looked for AEV and ASC and found neither. All I'm seeing is exhaust on/off and test kind of things

 

[alldodge]

Well Odyssey says my Bats were damaged by my charger not being able to supply "enough" amps. Bat charge mush be able to supply at least 10% of Ah rating, so 31M is 100 Ah which needs at least 10 amps. My charger is a 20 amp total 3 Bank. So I come back in all charged up but still need 10 amps minimum per bank

So here comes another 2K for Bats and charger

 

[alldodge]

Well $1700 on Bats and $200 on Charger and we'll try it again
Odyssey mentions Minn Kota 3 bank 10 amps per bank

 

[muc]

Well Odyssey says my Bats were damaged by my charger not being able to supply "enough" amps. Bat charge mush be able to supply at least 10% of Ah rating, so 31M is 100 Ah which needs at least 10 amps. My charger is a 20 amp total 3 Bank. So I come back in all charged up but still need 10 amps minimum per bank

So here comes another 2K for Bats and charger

What does the battery test report say?
The 10% is a recommendation NOT a requirement!
You're good as long as your batteries get to float voltage before you use them again, Odyssey can deny warranty for many reason per their terms but as long as they get charged completely before the next use. That's not "abuse".
Open circuit voltage 10.5V and below is a big problem, but if you've never done this. Shouldn't be a problem.
Have you gone straight to Odyssey?

 

[alldodge]

What does the battery test report say?

I found a test report where someone should fill in the blanks, but all I have is what I found in my testing. The charger bulk rate is 14.5 then drops down and from a month ago it was 13.5 float (which is good)

Give it more time and it would drop further. Currently when charger goes to float it starts dropping faster to where it's below 13.

When I plug the charger in there is a good spark from the plug and it never did that before, so the charger is drawing so amps.

When motors start there is a double beep with no code or error showing up anywhere, so I am assuming this is low voltage warning. You can see from the pic I posted previous that the ALT output is 14.5 but vessel view is seeing 14 to 14.1 while cruising. I have not seen voltages anywhere near 13V even after cruising some time and then measuring once stopped. In short the Bats voltages keep dropping each time I measure

I don't know how to fix or get info to prove it's not my charger. I to don't understand how fully charged Bats will not be able to use a single 20 amp output and not keep up with float. That said Odyssey has a list of approved chargers and at least this time I will install one of them. My cruiser didn't have any issues using same Bats but it was a 50amp total 3 bank charger. My seadoo got 9 years from the Bat and it was 23Ah and I used a 5 amp charger during winter, so it met the 10% rating (needs 2.3 amps)

I am talking direct with Odyssey

 

[alldodge]

Full charged true AGM list 13V for full charge, and find readings of 12.9 on the net depending on where you look.

I left Bat charger off but connected to boat for 1.5 days. Charge measures 12.78 to 12.8 which to me should be fine, so why does VV give me 2 beeps when motor is started.

 

[muc]

I'm not sure you have a battery problem. Here is something I found in one of DTS service manuals.

Additional Horn
Denial: A double rapid horn indicates denial of the attempted action.

To help me better understand your boat;
Can you post some pics of your dash? Need to determine what exact throttle control you have. (there appears to be 4 different possibilities) Also what all is installed on your boat, active trim panel, keyless, 1st mate, etc. What VV do you have? Do you have vessel view mobile or smartcraft connect?

Can you tell us your exact starting sequence that results in the double horn? Have you tried using the keys and starting port first, stbd first? When you use the button on the ERC, does one engine start first?

 

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Don't know which model VV it is, but can remove to get model number off back tomorrow if needed. Voltage readings at Bats with Bat switches OFF were 12.81 on motors and 12.84 on house.Turning Bat switches ON remained the same. After starting motors and then turning them OFF but key ON. shows 13V


Throttle control



Throttle control id dual with push button start/stop. It had a software recall on it and dealer said they installed it when they where doing last lower unit replacement. The recall had to do with the control not shifting the motor during docking procedures. It would do a 2 beep and the drive would not engage. It happened to me once prior to taking back to dealer. I had to move it to neutral than back to reverse to engage.

The last time out I shifted to reverse and heard 2 beeps backing out of slip, it was backing up so I didn't go to neutral. Could be one of the motors didn't shift but I didn't notice any difference

I have smartcraft, Vessel View, Vessel View Mobile and Ist Mate.
Merc Tech from Knoxville came up to install 1st Mate and noticed when keys were turned off, VV was not powering off. He said that Chap did not rig the boat correctly and it would take to much re-rigging to do it correctly, something about voltage was not dropping below 5V enough to make it happen. So he installed VV mobile along with 1st Mate to make voltage drop lower

Start sequence
Turn port than Strb keys on
Press start/stop on ERC, port starts first than Strb.

Stopping just press start/stop

In splash well there is a label stating something like start port first

If I start port with key first, I don't always hear the 2 beeps, need to do it more times to verify this is always the case.

When I start port the voltages are the same showing both 14.4V.


If I start just the Strb I see the below
So it's like the ALTs only work when the port is running

 

[muc]

Thanks for the info, it helps. Do you have 3 or 4 position key switches? A 4 position will have an accessory position if you turn it counter-clockwise.

Have you tried using the start/stop all button that's on the pivot point of the port throttle handle? This should start the stbd engine first and then the port. Based on this I would recommend starting the stbd first in the future. I'm assuming (correct me if I'm wrong) that you are using the 2 buttons in pic 3 because you say the port starts first.

4th pic is the fire port, this is if you have a fire below deck. They don’t want you to open the hatch and add more oxygen. You should open this port and empty the fire extinguisher in it. I don't see the port in the pic (it should be about the size of a golf ball or a little larger). I didn't think O/B boats had these. Do you have a generator on this boat?

Please note that once you turn the keys to the on position and push the all button you should not touch the keys or the 2 individual engine start/stop buttons in pic 3 until engines have both started or timed out. This runs the risk of "confusing" the CCM.

I have had a suspicion that this boat might not have been cabled correctly since new. This is based on a couple of reasons.
1. 2 of the times we special ordered unique boats from Chap. One was a 32' Sig with Axius joystick (Gen 1) and the second was a 35' Sig with straight inboards. Both were troubled children and never got completely sorted out before they were traded in at another dealer.
2. When I attended SmartCraft/DTS training. One of the lab exercises was to cable up a twin engine helm, we were given a big box of cables. I didn't pay much attention because my dealer had switched to all Volvo (I was just there to maintain my masters cert) and one of the guys in our group worked for a boat builder and said "stand back boy's, this is what I do at the factory". He dumped the box and started grabbing cables and plugging them in. He got done and said this will work but will have some very weird issues because one cable is missing so I used one that will work, just won't work right. When we got back in the the classroom and started discussing the exercise. Turns out that the instructor had purposely not given all the groups that cable to show us that even if the cable has the right ends to plug in it will have issues and "just kind of work".
I'm not sure if any of this will matter with your boat. You have a Gen2 system and my class was back in the Gen1 days. Much has changed since then and my SmartCraft/DTS knowledge is limited.

Batteries: do you have isolators so the engines charge the house battery? Depending on what's installed will change troubleshooting.
Merc has issued a S.B. and Service Advisory on alternators and charging. Very detailed and specific and where to take the readings. I'm guessing they have some problems with how some boats were rigged. But it all starts with testing the batteries themselves. Be aware that not all places that test batteries have the proper tool. I have worked at dealers that had the good one and others that had a cheap one. I have used the ones at auto parts store that are garbage. Surprisingly the best I've found is at the Walmart near me and one of the 2 Batteries + places near me. I honestly think there's nothing wrong with your batts --- but that's based on what you've posted. And I find I sometimes (often) assume things and we all know what happens when you assume.

 

[alldodge]

Do you have 3 or 4 position key switches?

Assuming 3, first click Acc and if switches return to this position VV powers down but Plotters stay ON. Second click 2 beeps and VV wakes up. Third motor starts

Have you tried using the start/stop all button that's on the pivot point of the port throttle handle? This should start the stbd engine first and then the port. Based on this I would recommend starting the stbd first in the future. I'm assuming (correct me if I'm wrong) that you are using the 2 buttons in pic 3 because you say the port starts first

I only used those buttons one time just to see if they work, I usually only use the start/stop button on port handle to do both. When doing last testing I used the keys. The Port always starts first when button is pressed

4th pic is the fire port

There is no port to open other than being able to lift the rear port seat which is above the Bat charger and all Bats

Please note that once you turn the keys to the on position and push the all button you should not touch the keys or the 2 individual engine start/stop buttons in pic 3 until engines have both started or timed out. This runs the risk of "confusing" the CCM.

Agree have never touched the keys if using all button. When using individual keys they only need to be tapped to start and released and motor cranks until it starts

Batteries: do you have isolators so the engines charge the house battery?

Yes I know there is at least one, but don't know if it's an isolator or a ACR. Going to look further and see what I find.

I have some of the SB's and will use them to see what I come up with.

One thing I did think was weird when installing AGM's first time is there is only 2 individual ground cables going to Bats. Meaning they all have grounds daisy changed together, but 2 of them have what appears to be a ground coming from one motor and the other to a buss bar like for the house. It gives me the impression that only the Port motor has a ground going to the Bat and the Strb goes to a buss bar or other

 

[muc]

Assuming 3, first click Acc and if switches return to this position VV powers down but Plotters stay ON. Second click 2 beeps and VV wakes up. Third motor starts
I think this is a 4 position - off,acc,run,start. But I'm not sure

I only used those buttons one time just to see if they work, I usually only use the start/stop button on port handle to do both. When doing last testing I used the keys. The Port always starts first when button is pressed
The service manual lists stbd first. But I have NO hands on experience.

There is no port to open other than being able to lift the rear port seat which is above the Bat charger and all Bats
No Generator? I would ask Chap why you have this sticker in your splash well.

Yes I know there is at least one, but don't know if it's an isolator or a ACR. Going to look further and see what I find.
Merc recommends one for each engine. I seem to remember a Service Advisory about isolator vs ACR. I will have to look for it.

I have some of the SB's and will use them to see what I come up with.
Follow the 2 alternator testing ones, this info supersedes the service manual.

One thing I did think was weird when installing AGM's first time is there is only 2 individual ground cables going to Bats. Meaning they all have grounds daisy changed together, but 2 of them have what appears to be a ground coming from one motor and the other to a buss bar like for the house. It gives me the impression that only the Port motor has a ground going to the Bat and the Strb goes to a buss bar or other

Take a look at 8M0156798 install instructions page pages 40-41
Some builders will use a buss bar for the negatives and that's fine. But the clean power connections must go straight to the correct batteries.

 

[alldodge]

Working from 2B529482 manual

The service manual lists stbd first. But I have NO hands on experience.

Don't know where this is and it's never done this, can you advise?

Follow the 2 alternator testing ones, this info supersedes the service manual.

Will do

Take a look at 8M0156798 install instructions page pages 40-41
Some builders will use a buss bar for the negatives and that's fine. But the clean power connections must go straight to the correct batteries.

Don't have this one, can you provide brief of what is required?