Yamaha F225 ECU Upgrade

[MyTie]

Helping my dad with an '05 F225TXRD. Can get oil pressure and RPM on the chartplotter via NMEA2000 bus, but no temp readings. He has a round Command Link gauge that shows everything, including temp, but how do we get temp to appear on the chartplotter?

His ECU is a 69J-8591A-30-00 unit, do we need to upgrade it to a 69J-8591A-31-00, or 69J-8591A-32-00 for temp? If so, what is the highest number that will work properly with his engine?

 

[alldodge]

Can get oil pressure and RPM on the chartplotter via NMEA2000 bus, but no temp readings. He has a round Command Link gauge that shows everything, including temp, but how do we get temp to appear on the chartplotter?

Don't know Yam's but don't see this as a ECU, this is the chartplotter setup issue. Most all have setup routines and it just needs to be setup in the menu

 

[dingbat]

Can’t help with the part number, but engine temp wasn’t available via NMEA 2000 until 2006 model year

 

[MyTie]

Don't know Yam's but don't see this as a ECU, this is the chartplotter setup issue. Most all have setup routines and it just needs to be setup in the menu

It's a Raymarine e127 and I've been all through the setup screens and still can't figure it out. Since his gauge is Command Link (Yamaha's version of NMEA 2000) and it can 'read' the temperature, it tells me that the data is on the bus. However, I'm thinking they might be using a proprietary PID (or whatever they are called in NMEA 2000).

 

[MyTie]

Can’t help with the part number, but engine temp wasn’t available via NMEA 2000 until 2006 model year

I saw this somewhere online which is why I thought about replacing the ECU with a 2006 or later one. Any idea if this would fix it? Also, why is the Command Link gauge able to read the temp but not the chartplotter?

 

[dingbat]

Any idea if this would fix it? Also, why is the Command Link gauge able to read the temp but not the chartplotter?

Don’t get me started on the engine and electronics manufacturer’s use of proprietary communication protocols (messages) to lock you into their brand…..lol

Your chartplotter utilizes NMEA2000 which was developed as a marine “industry standard” protocal to allow end users to mix and match components between manufacturers.

Great solution for the end user, not so good for manufactures that want to lock you in on their brand. Reason we still have Command Link, Sea Talk and NavNet amongst a host of other proprietary protocols still in use.

In your situation, the ECM is speaking CANBus (industry standard protocal for engine control systems) and Command Link is speaking a Yamaha proprietary protocal. If you have temp data in Command Link, it’s available from somewhere.

Without doing a deep dive into the documentation, I don’t know why temp wasn’t available in NMEA until 2006. Could be they took temp off a different bus prior to 2006. Could be temp wasn’t added to the gateway until 2006 and you just need a different or updated gateway

 

[MyTie]

In your situation, the ECM is speaking CANBus (industry standard protocal for engine control systems) and Command Link is speaking a Yamaha proprietary protocal. If you have temp data in Command Link, it’s available from somewhere.

Without doing a deep dive into the documentation, I don’t know why temp wasn’t available in NMEA until 2006. Could be they took temp off a different bus prior to 2006. Could be temp wasn’t added to the gateway until 2006 and you just need a different or updated gateway

In your situation, the ECM is speaking CANBus (industry standard protocal for engine control systems) and Command Link is speaking a Yamaha proprietary protocal. If you have temp data in Command Link, it’s available from somewhere.

Without doing a deep dive into the documentation, I don’t know why temp wasn’t available in NMEA until 2006. Could be they took temp off a different bus prior to 2006. Could be temp wasn’t added to the gateway until 2006 and you just need a different or updated gateway

It appears as though the ECM actually speaks both the CANBus protocol (specifically ISO 9141-2, or at least that is what my scantool identifies it as) as well as NMEA 2000 protocol because, when I looked at the wiring diagram in the service manual (LIT-18616-02-76) all the sensor wires go directly to the ecm as well as the blue & white NMEA 2000 wires, and finally the engine diagnostic bus wires.

This tells me that the ECU is receiving all the sensor data and it's available on both buses. Having said that, the Command Link gauge that my dad has (round, 6Y8T-20) is actually receiving data off the NMEA2000 bus.

I'm 100% certain of this because, before I installed the chartplotter, there wasn't a NMEA 2000 backbone (at least not separate from the cable being used for the gauge, no Yamaha hub) so I created a SeaTalk (NG) one for the Raymarine chartplotter (and other goodies). Since I used the same engine connector (with the blue & white wires) that the Command Link gauge was connected to, I needed to put the gauge on the newly installed backbone. To do this, I removed the inline 120 Ohm resistors from the cable (that originally ran from the engine to the gauge) and spliced the gauge into a spur cable (which connects to the SeaTalk NG backbone).

Thus, the round CL gauge and the Raymarine chartplotter are both on the same NMEA2000 bus and are both receiving the engine data off it. Since the CL gauge can see the temp, but the chartplotter can't I'm GUESSING that Yamaha was using a nonstandard parameter ID (or whatever NMEA 2000 calls it, I'm not familiar with the inner workings of it like I am with road vehicle protocols) prior to the 2006 model year for engine temp.

If so, as I see it, I'll need to either install a controller on the bus which also receives the sensor data and outputs it with the standard NMEA 2000 parameter ID, or upgrade the ECU to one that uses the standard NMEA 2000 parameter.

 

[dingbat]

Thus, the round CL gauge and the Raymarine chartplotter are both on the same NMEA2000 bus and are both receiving the engine data off it. Since the CL gauge can see the temp, but the chartplotter can't I'm GUESSING that Yamaha was using a nonstandard parameter ID (or whatever NMEA 2000 calls it, I'm not familiar with the inner workings of it like I am with road vehicle protocols) prior to the 2006 model year for engine temp.

If so, as I see it, I'll need to either install a controller on the bus which also receives the sensor data and outputs it with the standard NMEA 2000 parameter ID, or upgrade the ECU to one that uses the standard NMEA 2000 parameter.

Sounds like you have a mismatch in the PGN numbers.

Garmin is looking for PGN 127489 - Engine Parameters, Dynamic

 

[boscoe99]

Command Link is Yamaha's terminology for NMEA 2000.

If temperature sensor data is being seen on a Yamaha Command Link gauge, and other engine information is being seen on the Command Link gauge and on an NMEA 2000 display, I am not understanding why that data is not being seen on the NMEA 2000 display. Not making sense.

 

[MyTie]

Sounds like you have a mismatch in the PGN numbers.

Garmin is looking for PGN 127489 - Engine Parameters, Dynamic

I saw this too and the Raymarine unit is using data from this PGN because field 2 of this group is oil pressure, field 5 is voltage, field 6 is fuel rate, field 7 is engine hours, field 11 control the check engine light, and all of these are working perfectly. Field 4 is the engine temperature and it's a 16-bit integer (the documentation I found doesn't list what the integer value actually is, but it doesn't matter because I don't have a way to look at it anyway). My guess is that this value is different on pre-2006 engines.

 

[MyTie]

Command Link is Yamaha's terminology for NMEA 2000.

This certainly seems to be the case!

If temperature sensor data is being seen on a Yamaha Command Link gauge, and other engine information is being seen on the Command Link gauge and on an NMEA 2000 display, I am not understanding why that data is not being seen on the NMEA 2000 display. Not making sense.

When I say temperature data is being seen on the Yamaha Command Link gauge, there isn't an exact value. Instead it has the circle that moves from low/left to high/right at the bottom (under the large RPM value). It starts out on the left and moves to the right as the engine heats up.

I have see numerous websites which state that all the values except for engine temperature will be displayed on the pre-2006 engines (that have the white & blue Command Link wires). Thus, it appears as though my dad's engine isn't unique in this regard. My guess as to what is happening is stated above, but do you know if I can use a newer ecu with this engine? I'm wondering if we can use the 69J-8591A-31-00 or 69J-8591A-32-00 ecu, thoughts?

 

[boscoe99]

What is the engine ID of your dad's motor?

Along with the ECU changes there have been some wiring harness changes. Need to make sure that the wire harness on the motor is compatible with a later dash number ECU.

 

[MyTie]

What is the engine ID of your dad's motor?

Along with the ECU changes there have been some wiring harness changes. Need to make sure that the wire harness on the motor is compatible with a later dash number ECU.

Yes, that makes perfect sense. Thank you for the assistance!

The engine is a September 2004 build (2005 model year) F225TXRD. Does this answer your question? It's all I have with me at the moment, but I do have a pic of a label showing a 69J-X-1018... number (the rest of the number is cut off, we weren't shooting the sticker). I can have my dad go out and read the rest of it if this is what you are after...?

Edit: It looks like the 69J-8591A-31-00 and 69J-8591A-32-00 have both been superseded by 69J-8591A-33-00, which appears to be current. I guess this means that if a -31 will work so will a -32 and -33. Do you happen to know the differences between these ecus?

 

[boscoe99]

An F25TXRD model came with a -30 ECU and a -50 wire harness assembly.

The first F225 with full Command Link capability was an F225TXR model with a production date of April 2005. It used a -31 ECU and a -51 wire harness assembly.

The -30 ECU was replaced by the -31 which was replaced by the -32 which was replaced by the -33. Either can be interchanged with the other.

The -51 wire harness should work with either of the aforementioned ECU's.

The differences between the ECU's is not known to me.

 

[boscoe99]

The ECU is monitoring engine temperature. If and when the motor gets too hot the ECU will sound the alarm and put the motor into RPM reduction mode. The Command Link gauge will indicate the problem.

Is it all that important that the NMEA 2000 display indicate some particular temperature value?

 

[MyTie]

It looks like the

An F25TXRD model came with a -30 ECU and a -50 wire harness assembly.

The first F225 with full Command Link capability was an F225TXR model with a production date of April 2005. It used a -31 ECU and a -51 wire harness assembly.

The -30 ECU was replaced by the -31 which was replaced by the -32 which was replaced by the -33. Either can be interchanged with the other.

The -51 wire harness should work with either of the aforementioned ECU's.

The differences between the ECU's is not known to me.

Thanks for this very useful info!

So, to upgrade to a -31 or later ECU, would I also need to change to a -51 wire harness?

 

[MyTie]

The ECU is monitoring engine temperature. If and when the motor gets too hot the ECU will sound the alarm and put the motor into RPM reduction mode. The Command Link gauge will indicate the problem.

Is it all that important that the NMEA 2000 display indicate some particular temperature value?

My dad is older (heck, I'm older my dad is really older) and cannot hear the alarm. He often goes out by himself, but when I went out with him a few weeks back (for the first time) there was an alarm going off. Not only did he not hear it, but (presumably) he had been driving it like that for months on end. Thankfully, it was just a bad sender and there wasn't really a problem with the oil pressure.

Also, after hearing the alarm I had no idea what it was trying to alert me to (been boating my whole life, but new to outboards and Yamaha's all in one combo gauge). The tiny little blinking icon was very difficult to see (his eyesight is far from 20/20 and mine is decent but I too had a hard time). I just don't like the idea that something could go wrong when he's out by himself, he won't know, and could cause catastrophic damage.

With the chartplotter there is a large check engine notification (with English words for what is wrong, not just a 2 digit number that you need to know how to separately access) and it has gauges (with needles) so he can easily see what's happening (we have grown up with boats that have always had separate analog gauges for each sender).

Edit: I also plan on installing a light (connected to the alarm circuit) that will also indicate malfunctions.

 

[MyTie]

@boscoe99 If I want to upgrade to a -31 or later ECU, would I also need to change to a -51 wire harness, or will his -50 work with later ECUs?

 

[99yam40]

from what bosco wrote in post #14, it seems the harness will no to be a 51.
but you can wait for him to say so

 

[MyTie]

from what bosco wrote in post #14, it seems the harness will no to be a 51.
but you can wait for him to say so

I believe you are saying that the harness will need to be swapped out; however, I'm not convinced of this because @boscoe99 said that my dad's -30 ECU was superseded by these later models. This means the pinout must be the same for the newer ECUs to plug into and work with a -50 harness. Since there is already water temp sensor wiring/connector (though it appears no water pressure like with the -51 harness) then I'm thinking it should work.