Was cruzing along fine and then....

[Swivelhart]

66 LARSON ALL AMERICAN...Electric shift stringer (I know)
I left the marina today reverse worked great...foward great...putted along for about 10 minutes till out of the no wake zone and then slowly brought her up to speed...got out about half mile and then vroom and no propulsion. I thought oh no stripped shaft. I waited till the boat stopped and put in reverse and viola great! Good no stripped shaft. But no foward!!! THe only thing I did recently was put in a new impeller but I dont think there is a corrolation. I have a reciept from the guy who had the boat before me that shows new coils were put in. Any ideas? Does the shift lever ever get faulty with the contacts?

 

[NW Redneck]

Re: Was cruzing along fine and then....

It could still be a stripped pump shaft. If the splines sheared off in forward, there could be a bit of metal left that is 'smeared' in that direction, and when you put it in reverse, there is just enough of a 'lip' to grab and turn. If you give it much throttle it will probably slip in rev. too. I would check & see if you have 12v on the fwd wire, and if you do I'd bet it's the shaft.

 

[Swivelhart]

Re: Was cruzing along fine and then....

Hope Not but i'll check out this morning...I didn't here any sort of noise whatsoever when putting it in foward. Other posts have read seem to experience a loud bang followed by nasty grinding noises. I am anxious to see. I will put direct 12v current to each lead one at a time and listen without engine running for the magnets clicking.

 

[Swivelhart]

Re: Was cruzing along fine and then....

ok here is what I have done so far without pulling the out drive off. I disconnected the shift wires aat the connector near the block and then ran a wire streight from the positive battery terminal to test each lead. I put the hot wire on the reverse lead and heard and felt the small clunk from the reverse electric coil in the lower unit. After that I put the hot wire on the other lead (foward coil wire) and didnt here anything but noticed that the wire got real hot very quickly. I took it off and tried the reverse wire...heard the clunk...but the wire never got hot. Tried the other one again and the same thing happened...no clunk but the wire got hot quick. That tells me that it is something other than the shaft stripping. I drained the lower unit and didnt see and metal stuff but of course it was a browinish color (some water entry) but still had viscocity. While the oil was drained I tried the wire again for no logical reason and found this time I could here the foward coil clunk (not as strong as reverse...more like a click) but the wire still got hot fast! That is all I have done so far...next I will pull the outdrive biut without a manual I dont have a clue how to pull the hub cover off by the prop to expose the guts and take a look see. Any more thoughts so far?

 

[Howard Sterndrive]

Re: Was cruzing along fine and then....

without a manual I dont have a clue

sounds like you have answered your own question then on how to proceed....

each coil should have about 6 ohms resistance to the case of the drive. Suspect yours is shorted to less than 1 ohm - thus the warm wire.

 

[Swivelhart]

Re: Was cruzing along fine and then....

Without understanding to much about ohms and so forth what does that mean. Or better yet what might have gone wrong. A bad coil? Stuck coil? Bad spring? I appreciate your expertise!

 

[Howard Sterndrive]

Re: Was cruzing along fine and then....

Without understanding to much about ohms and so forth what does that mean. Or better yet what might have gone wrong. A bad coil? Stuck coil? Bad spring? I appreciate your expertise!

you might want to head to the library and grab a book on basic electrical systems. An automotive book would work fine.
To own that old boat is going to be miserable without being handy with a multimeter. 40 year old wires need attention sometimes.

That "powering the wires direct" stuff is dangerous. You can blow yourself, the battery, or the fuel tank up in a bilge area making those sparks and smoking up wires.

Hard to say what went wrong, but when you powered it direct you cooked stuff good.
could be the coil broke down, could be the lube in the lower was not correct (type C) or had too much water in it.
Could be the insulation wore off or cracked on one of the wires allowing the conductor to touch the case inside the drive.
or, about 20 other things.

I'd recommend getting the factory OMC manual for '66 for your drive on eBay or from ken Cook.
I have a '66 manual here, but it's for the 150HP V6 - look for one that covers your engine and drive specifically.
I thumbed through it, and you don't want to use the Seloc for disassembling that lower - the pre-68 drives are a bit goofy and the Seloc doesn't address the differences from the later stuff very well

 

[Redrig]

Re: Was cruzing along fine and then....

this exact situation happened to me 2 years ago, although my elec shift is a 77, same symptoms. after troubleshooting it ended up being my forward coil, I have since swapped out the lower to a new one.

the good news is if you can find a lower they are not all that hard to swap in the lower unit, if you try to fix your coil in your existing lower, well that is a totally different story, I still have not mustured up the guts to start ripping my lower apart. and to have a pro do it is some serious $ and thats even if you can find the parts

 

[Swivelhart]

Re: Was cruzing along fine and then....

That makes sense to me. What a shame for such a nice old boat to be so problematic. I was looking through the Larson archives and noticed that my boat had two outdrive options for that year. The OMC high performance or the OMC heavy duty. I got the (Socalled high performance) but when I got the parts catologue in the mail the lower unit is called standard group. Not the Heavy duty. Anyway, I will test with an ohm meter and learn a little. It could be a 20 different things. I will get that year service manual and go to town so to speak unless the price tag for parts gets too high. It's too bad that there isnt a bigger aftermarket solution to these OMC's. Like the Auto industry you can almost swap anything out and get adapters for whatever...
Thanks guys

 

[Swivelhart]

Re: Was cruzing along fine and then....

Did some more tests...went outside with my voltmeter and tested the oms. What I got was 8.1 on the blue wire (reverse coil) and .8 on the green wire (foward coil). I tilted the drive up and carefully worked the wire out of the intermediate housing and tested again to see if there possibly was contact with metal somewhere. Pulled the wire through and same readings. Took the outdrive off and same readings. Put it on my bench and nothing changed (see pics below) When I pulled the lower unit off of the leg I saw exposed wire. I thought Great!!!...that is what the problem was. Nope! Same readings. There must be contact with the case down inside..Oh no not down inside!! Never did this job before but it is an opportunity to learn. I'll keep you updated. Also what kind of material is used to insulate the knife terminals (the ones in the picture that wore through. And one last question do I disconnect them here and pull the lower all the way off or pull the lower off with the entire cable still attatched?

 

[Howard Sterndrive]

Re: Was cruzing along fine and then....

do I disconnect them here and pull the lower all the way off or pull the lower off with the entire cable still attatched?

that's why you need a manual - they show and discuss some procedure with a caution about shearing the wires off.... among about 50 other fiddly processes and cautions

 

[Swivelhart]

Re: Was cruzing along fine and then....

If only those manuals werent so expensive...but that is what comes with owning a 44 year old boat. Hope to order the manual soon. I was real carefull when pulling the two pieces apart. I dont think the exposed parts are from me but then again who knows! The shaft splines look good however.

 

[NW Redneck]

Re: Was cruzing along fine and then....

Until you can get a proper OMC factory manual, here's a download for an aftermarket one:

http://www.4shared.com/file/10298842...OMC_64-86.html

Hope it helps! I don't have a factory one yet either, but so far I've been OK with a Glenn's manual I got with the boat and the one in the link above. Eventually I want to pull the motor & drive and do a complete rebuild on both and when I do I will want to have the factory man. Until then these two have sufficed for general maintainance and troubleshooting.

 

[Swivelhart]

Re: Was cruzing along fine and then....

I really appreciate that. I could not however get it to download. When I click on it the thing says "the file link you requested is not valid."
I will keep trying

 

[NW Redneck]

Re: Was cruzing along fine and then....

Hmmm. I get the same thing. This is the link that is in the 'Adults Only' sticky at the top of the forum and it was working just a few weeks ago. PM me your e-mail addy and I will try sending you a copy of my download.

EDIT: I'm not sure what's with the other link, but a quick google shows that it's still on 4share. Try this one:

http://www.4shared.com/file/102988421/c4f26d54/OMC_64-86.html

 

[Swivelhart]

Re: Was cruzing along fine and then....

Thank you kindly. Email is: ektorsketch@hotmail.com
I'll try the other link too...
What kind of boat is in your picture? Looks nice!

 

[Swivelhart]

Re: Was cruzing along fine and then....

Thanks a bunch I downloaded it but couldnt open the file so I re-uploaded it with Google docs and then converted it to PDF. Wow, what a blessing 500 and some odd pages. That will hold me till I get the factory service manual. I really want to get this thing fixed so I can pull my kids around on tubes this season.

 

[NW Redneck]

Re: Was cruzing along fine and then....

Glad I could help!
My boat's a 1975 Cal-Glass with a 175hp (302 Ford) OMC electric shift. It's a little rough, but solid and servicable. I'm more interested in function over form right now, but eventually I'd like to do a full resto on motor & hull. She rides really nice with that deep V hull. Even better since I added the smart tabs!

I like your Larson too. Sweet lookin' little boat! Good luck with it!

 

[Redrig]

Re: Was cruzing along fine and then....

get a seal kit while you have it tore apart, also an impeller. keep taking pics while you get into that lower. Good luck

 

[Swivelhart]

Re: Was cruzing along fine and then....

Put a brand new impeller in the day before I took it out and had the issue. A seal kit is definately in order and i will take pics. I wonder what kind of coating they put on the knife connecters (the orange stuff) to shield them. It's not factory because my parts catologue shows them as being like a rubber sleeve.