1989 Force 125 Bored .30 over NOT RUNNING RIGHT!

Unforcefull Force

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Re: 1989 Force 125 Bored .30 over NOT RUNNING RIGHT!

Can anybody tell me what color the spark should be in the checkers?

Do you think there could be something wrong with my flywheel? Do flywheels even go bad?

Thanks,
Mark
 

further

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Re: 1989 Force 125 Bored .30 over NOT RUNNING RIGHT!

You could have a sheared flywheel key or the magnet could come loose or crack. Definitely something to check.
 

john from md

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Re: 1989 Force 125 Bored .30 over NOT RUNNING RIGHT!

Mark,

That is a really nice '89 that you have there. ;) Now if only we can solve your power problem. :confused:

I re-read all of your posts and, at one time, you had an intermittant spark at a certain rpm. Just so you know, a blue spark is correct and an orange spark is weak. The colors have to do with the amount of energy the coil is sending to the plug.

How about running it with the cowl off and a spark tester on the plug that was intermittant. Have an assistant monitor it at 500 rpm intervals.

Another way to test for a weak cylinder is to use a laser thermometer from Harbor Freight. They cost about $20 and are easy to see in daylight. I used this exact tool to find a dead cylinder on my neighbors 175hp Johnson not too long ago.

I'm afraid I am running out of ideas.

John
 

Unforcefull Force

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Re: 1989 Force 125 Bored .30 over NOT RUNNING RIGHT!

Whenever I pulled the flywheel I noticed that the band on the inside of the flywheel, (magnet)?, was falling down a little bit. Also there was a little surface rust on the center part of the flywheel (the part that is off-centered) on that center part, it looks like there are more magnets in the center and around them there are layers of metal. The very first layer of metal is bent off of the rest, just a little bit. I cleaned the surface rust with a wire wheel but will the other things i mentioned decrease spark performance or can the magnet get week over time. Maybe I need a new flywheel?

Is that inserted magnet supposed to have 1 slit in it making it an incomplete circle?

I am not getting ANY weak spark now that I changed the stator, CDIs trigger and coils. They are all basically orange, which i am realizing that they are all weak then. Maybe I should just buy a brand new stator?

Not sure.

Thanks

Mark
 

john from md

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Re: 1989 Force 125 Bored .30 over NOT RUNNING RIGHT!

If the magnets are weak or have been moved, it will affect the current induced into the stator and trigger coils.

Unfortunately, on Monday I had a hernia operation :( and am too sore to go look at my flywheel. Even if I could, the warden (my wife) would freak out:eek: if I do anything before the doctor releases me to do it. Otherwise I would go take a pic or two to show you what yours should look like.

I don't know where you live in PA but Frank Acampora lives near Pittsburgh and I'm sure if you asked, he would let you come and take a look at his engines. Go ahead and send him a PM. Mind you, his bark is worse than his bite. ;)

Regards,

John
 

further

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Re: 1989 Force 125 Bored .30 over NOT RUNNING RIGHT!

Here's a pic i found off another post - I think this is a later model flywheel - has 6 magnets around the outside? I think the older ones are single strip around the outside.
 

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Unforcefull Force

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Re: 1989 Force 125 Bored .30 over NOT RUNNING RIGHT!

Mine has a strip all of the way around, It is not a solid piece though, but this may be normal. I'm not sure.

Thanks for the post! I need all the help I can get.
-Mark
 

Unforcefull Force

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Re: 1989 Force 125 Bored .30 over NOT RUNNING RIGHT!

If the magnets are weak or have been moved, it will affect the current induced into the stator and trigger coils.

Unfortunately, on Monday I had a hernia operation :( and am too sore to go look at my flywheel. Even if I could, the warden (my wife) would freak out:eek: if I do anything before the doctor releases me to do it. Otherwise I would go take a pic or two to show you what yours should look like.

I don't know where you live in PA but Frank Acampora lives near Pittsburgh and I'm sure if you asked, he would let you come and take a look at his engines. Go ahead and send him a PM. Mind you, his bark is worse than his bite. ;)

Regards,

John

John,

Maybe I should try to find a used flywheel, a new one is $600.00 but it is not a guaranteed fix, if it was, i would definitely get it!

That doesn't sound fun!

lol, I know how that is too. It ALWAYS has to be alright with the boss! How long are you down? Make sure you do what the Doc says!

I may just send Frank a message, Im going to see what I can find tomorrow first.

I hope you get well soon!

Thanks,
-Mark
 

jerryjerry05

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Re: 1989 Force 125 Bored .30 over NOT RUNNING RIGHT!

If the magnet is comming loose re-glue it.Don't buy another.Clean it real good and re-glue using a strong thin glue.You have to make sure the old glue is ALL gone.A thin layer of glue and let it dry.A 150deg oven will help.
Just wire brush the center of the magnet.Bend back the bent stuff.
You have replaced the entire electrical system.
Now the basics. Compression/spark/fuel.
Re-do the comp test.New/rebuilds can go bad quick.Check the fuel pump diaphram. Hoses weak/soft?Clogged filters? Water in the fuel.What prop are you running?Maybe your over propped.
Static timing 28deg?Check spark when running?J
 

Unforcefull Force

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Re: 1989 Force 125 Bored .30 over NOT RUNNING RIGHT!

If the magnet is comming loose re-glue it.Don't buy another.Clean it real good and re-glue using a strong thin glue.You have to make sure the old glue is ALL gone.A thin layer of glue and let it dry.A 150deg oven will help.
Just wire brush the center of the magnet.Bend back the bent stuff.
You have replaced the entire electrical system.
Now the basics. Compression/spark/fuel.
Re-do the comp test.New/rebuilds can go bad quick.Check the fuel pump diaphram. Hoses weak/soft?Clogged filters? Water in the fuel.What prop are you running?Maybe your over propped.
Static timing 28deg?Check spark when running?J

Just sticking to the basics...

Do you or ANYONE think it is weird that I am not getting bright blue/white/purple color spark in the spark checkers?

I just changed the fuel pump again just to make sure something didn't go wrong with the last one I put in. It was only a 5 dollar part. I did that yesterday with hopes that was the problem. It is getting fuel for sure, If I pump the primer while WOT nothing changes either. ALL fuel lines are brand new (MAY). I'm pretty sure we can eliminate FUEL SYSTEM from the list.

Compression Test... I will try this again tomorrow or Monday.

Everything is pointing at weak spark. I did purchase a used electrical setup. Maybe there was something wrong with that stuff too. Maybe the flywheel/magnets are weak. Is there different levels of spark? Ex. Great -Good - Fair - Poor. If so, will they make the motor run differently? If I had to rate my spark based on spark color that was supposed to be Blue/White/Purple, I would say my spark was in between good and fair.
MY SPARK COLOR IS ORANGISH/HINT-OF-PINK

Is there anyone that has a similar setup with 4 readily available spark checkers; someone who is getting the manufactures recommended 5000-5500 RPM that can check their spark for me so we can compare?

If I can verify that I am definitely supposed to have a different color spark then what I currently have, I will order all brand electrical components on Monday, including a new flywheel. The marina I bought the used setup from said they would credit me the money that I spent on the used stuff, if I decided to get the new. I just want it to be right no matter what the cost. If I need it or it is going to fix my problem than it is going to make me very happy, which is priceless!

Like you said Jerry, basics. It HAS to be right there in front of me, just in disguise.

-Mark
 

shytownborn

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Re: 1989 Force 125 Bored .30 over NOT RUNNING RIGHT!

i used those cheap harbor frieght spark checkers, mine were orange-purplish on all four
 

jerryjerry05

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Re: 1989 Force 125 Bored .30 over NOT RUNNING RIGHT!

Mine were all showing orange.J
 

shytownborn

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Re: 1989 Force 125 Bored .30 over NOT RUNNING RIGHT!

with boysen reeds the instructions say with chysler/ force engines open idle mix screws one full turn from final adjustment
 
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shytownborn

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Re: 1989 Force 125 Bored .30 over NOT RUNNING RIGHT!

with boysen reeds the instructions say with chysler/ force engines open idle mix screws one full turn from your adjustment
 

Unforcefull Force

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Re: 1989 Force 125 Bored .30 over NOT RUNNING RIGHT!

with boysen reeds the instructions say with chysler/ force engines open idle mix screws one full turn from your adjustment

I tried what you suggested earlier in the week and I didn't have any luck. It didn't seem like it made a difference, it just brought the idle down which I had to compensate accordingly with the other adjustment to keep it running...

I tried everything that all of you nice people recommended. I am really starting to feel defeated. It has to be something...

Thanks
-Mark
 

Unforcefull Force

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Re: 1989 Force 125 Bored .30 over NOT RUNNING RIGHT!

Well, I removed all spark plugs today and did a compression test on each cylinder. I have 150PSI EXACTLY on all 4. It was as if I never even switched the checker from one to two and so fourth. The meter reading was precise on every one. I thought perhaps the meter was broken, so I left the dock and borrowed another checker just to be on the safe side. SAME thing! 150PSI Unbelievable compression...

Which leaves me to my final conclusion of sticking to the basics:

Compression: 150 PSI on all 4

Fuel: All lines are new, primer is new, replaced pump AGAIN, filter clean, WOT carbs are fully opened & synchronized definitely getting GREAT fuel.

Spark: Pinkish-Orange -------- Here is where my brain starts ticking...

A few people stated that they were getting the same color as me. I am going to go ahead and assume that their motors are all running well, considering that they are not complaining or inquiring about any problems.

There are few different "x-factors" that we all have to take into consideration though, x factors of both my boat and the others.

A) Boat size, weight
B) Top speed
C) Max RPM
D) Current compression

Lets assume that a motor with less compression would generally require a spark that was not as strong. Maybe at one point, when the motor was new, or even within the first 5 years of the motors life, perhaps it once had 150PSI and the spark was purple/blue/white. As the motor got older compression would be lost, naturally, wouldn't the spark get weaker as well? THIS IS JUST A THEORY any help to answer this question is very much appreciated!

If that is the case maybe since the compression is not as strong on the motors with the orange spark, maybe it doesn't need that strong of spark to run properly.

If I return the used components and order the new, this will guarantee the best spark possible. There would be nothing else that can be done. EVERYTHING would be brand new. I know this sound ridiculous, but I am running out of options. I can order all of the parts I need for $1800.00 including the flywheel (just to make sure everything is new) 1800.00 - $575.00 credit. The flywheel is the most expensive part @ $600.00. I'm getting impatient. It is either buy these new parts and it works, mission complete, or it doesn't work, I sell the motor (I'm sure it will do someone miracles on a lighter boat) and buy a used 150hp motor. If I don't try this last option and I never get it running properly, and sell the motor and buy a new/used motor, I am always going to wonder what would have happened if I tried to purchase a new electrical system. I would be able to rest assured that I gave 100% when trying to tackle this problem.

As far as the other X-factors, I think the weight of the other boats vs my boat would be important but I do not have an exact weight for my boat. I know that it should be close to what it was stock, maybe adding an extra 200LB for and extra battery and some stereo equipment. I checked the foam that I could get to in the bottom of the boat, without destroying anything, and it was all dry.

Let me know your thought,
Thanks
-Mark
 

john from md

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Re: 1989 Force 125 Bored .30 over NOT RUNNING RIGHT!

Mark,

Before you go spending alot of money, here are a few more things to consider.

1. Are you sure the main jets are the proper ones for your altitude? It makes a difference if you operate in Colorado vs Pennsylvania. Someone before you may have lived in CO.

2. Run your boat for 15min at WOT and, without reducing the power, kill the engine with the kill switch. Watch out for the stern wave and just be preparred to turn the wheel to avoid getting swamped. Now pull the plugs and see what they look like.

This is the only way to determine a cylinders operating health without having Exhaust gas temperature and Cylinder head temperature gauges hooked up to it. The color and residue on the plug will tell you if the cylinder is operating at optimum power. If it is, there is no sense in buying new parts as you will not change anything.
 

Unforcefull Force

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Re: 1989 Force 125 Bored .30 over NOT RUNNING RIGHT!

John,
I will try what you suggested.

The jets are correct. After the engine rebuild the motor still wasn't running the way it should, I dropped off the carbs to have them soaked over night and rebuilt. This was my first solution, I figured the carburetors were gummed up or something so I bought the rebuild kits and had them done.
After re-installation, I still had the same power issues, so then I thought maybe since it was bored out I need more fuel, so bigger jets. They had no bigger jets available, just the MAIN FUEL JET STD. .096 SEA LEVEL - 1500 FT. for the bottom and the MAIN FUEL JET STD. .098 SEA LEVEL - 1500 FT. for the top. So I ordered 2 sets. I took out my old set and installed a new set. Still the same response. I then took the old jets and the other new set and drilled them out. 1 size bigger (1 drillbit size) on the old jets, and 2 sizes bigger on the new set. I tried those and then instead of giving me more power at WOT It started to bog down at WOT. I would have to back off of the throttle to get a consistant RPM/SPEED. I figured both were just too big so I re-installed the other correct new jets and it no longer bogged down at WOT.

Thanks,
-Mark
 

Unforcefull Force

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Messages
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Re: 1989 Force 125 Bored .30 over NOT RUNNING RIGHT!

Early last week I went down to the boat to play around with some settings and the the motor started acting up even worse. It would not throttle past 3000RPM. At WOT it appeared that I was loosing a coil or 2. I checked spark across all 4 at idle, they all looked the same. I unplugged the bottom 2 wires off of the plugs, fired it up, and hit WOT. Same thing, 3000RPM. I plugged 3 & 4 back on and unplugged 1 & 2, started, & WOT; motor died right away. I drove the boat back to the dock pulled off the flywheel again to inspect the stator. I found a small burn mark on one winding. I called and got credited for the used stator & trigger I bought and I ordered a brand new trigger, stator and a used flywheel just incase. No one had a new flywheel available. My flywheel looks like it has seen better days. Like I said before, I'm not sure if they go bad, but I would rather get another one since the flywheel IS the start of the whole ignition/spark process; better safe then sorry. All of NEW parts should be in on Tuesday. I will install and update.

John - I still did not get a chance to perform the test you asked me to do; the motor started acting up before I could. I will do it after I install my new parts.

-Mark
 
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