New noise after engine removal and reinstallaion

[Kahlua en Cream]

I recently removed my GM350 engine (Volvo 270(?) Outdrive) to replace some leaky freeze plugs. after getting it all back together there is a new RPM related noise. It almost sounds like the starter cog wheel is not disengaging but I checked and it is. I am suspecting that it is a misaligned coupler plate after reading through the forums. I had to take it and the flywheel off to replace the freeze plugs. I did not do anything to align the coupler plate during the reinstall. I just put the 3 bolts in. The engine slid back onto the gimbal housing flange effortlessly and the spline slid into the coupler easily as well. Thoughts on this vibration-noise issue?

 

[captmello]

Re: New noise after engine removal and reinstallaion

So, before you made this repair there was no noise?

FYI, older Volvo's do not have any parts with the word gimbal in there name. The housing that bolts to the engine bell housing is the intermediate housing or flywheel cover. The bearings in the flywheel cover could be your problem.

When you had the engine out did you happen to notice any play in the drive shaft that slips into the vibration dampener that mounts to the flywheel?

BTW, welcome to Iboats.

 

[Kahlua en Cream]

Re: New noise after engine removal and reinstallaion

thanks for the comments...the new noise was not there before. yes there was noticible play in the splined shaft (between the ujoint and the damper plate). .010" at least I would suspect.

It does vibrate considerably in a hard left (or right can remember) turn, has the the last 3 years. U-joints were inspected by a mechanic and found to be in perfect condition.

Is alignment of the coupler/damper plate critical on my volvo outdrive?

 

[captmello]

Re: New noise after engine removal and reinstallaion

There are two bearings in the flywheel cover that can go bad from water in the bellows or lack of maintenance. Many of the old volvo owners on this forum have changed them, including myself. From what I've learned, vibration during turns is typically ujoints and/or drivetrain related. Removing and reinstalling the engine may have changed something just enough to cause the new noise.

Here's a link to my bearing replacement from last summer. Have a look. There are some links to manuals in the thread as well.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=265021

Is alignment of the coupler/damper plate critical on my volvo outdrive?

I haven't looked into this before. My understanding is that the dampener simply bolts to the flywheel and only goes one way. The alignment is checked between the flywheel cover and the transom shield. The manual should explain better.

What year is your boat/motor? Might help to know which outdrive your running as well.

Good Luck!! Let us know what you do, or if you need any other info.

 

[Kahlua en Cream]

Re: New noise after engine removal and reinstallaion

how do you force the intermediate housing out of the transom shield? When we had the engine out last time we tried to push it out but was very resistant to moving and gave up. I could see it move as we pushed on it but were afraid to push on it too hard. is there a prefered way to get it out?

 

[captmello]

Re: New noise after engine removal and reinstallaion

how do you force the intermediate housing out of the transom shield? When we had the engine out last time we tried to push it out but was very resistant to moving and gave up. I could see it move as we pushed on it but were afraid to push on it too hard. is there a preferred way to get it out?

The 6 six bolts behind the upper gear box of the outdrive need to be removed and the flywheel cover should come right out. BTW, this is the proper way to remove the engine. remove the upper gear box, remove the six bolts, remove engine with the intermediate assembly still attached.

 

[Kahlua en Cream]

Re: New noise after engine removal and reinstallaion

that is exactly how we attempted to get the engine out last time. Removing all the bolts you mentioned and the top gear box, but it just wouldn't budge. how much force and and in what way does one apply the load to get the engine and intermediate housing to detach from the transome shield?

 

[captmello]

Re: New noise after engine removal and reinstallaion

that is exactly how we attempted to get the engine out last time. Removing all the bolts you mentioned and the top gear box, but it just wouldn't budge. how much force and and in what way does one apply the load to get the engine and intermediate housing to detach from the transome shield?

Hard to measure that type of force, isn't it.

Without having been there, its hard to say what's going on. Did you try removing it after removing the engine? Seems like that would help. Do you think it may have been removed before and glued back in place?

The bearings can be changed without removing the flywheel cover but does make the job a bit tougher.

I guess I would pull the upper on the drive and change the ujoints. Don't look them over, just change them both.

If you go to the Adults only section, There is a link to Ujoint cross reference numbers, and I'm 90% sure those ujoints fit your drive. If someone else is reading this thread that knows for sure please let me know, but I'm pretty sure.

At that time you can also check for play in the driveshaft. If you have any side to side play, the bearings should be replaced.

And by this time you're an expert on your boat and could knock off the job in a weekend.

 

[Kahlua en Cream]

Re: New noise after engine removal and reinstallaion

What do the two screws 90 apart from each other on the intermediate housing do? is this alignment of somekind? I cant seem to find any discussion of the intermediate housing in the manuals I have.

 

[captmello]

Re: New noise after engine removal and reinstallaion

Go to this link and download the 280 manual posted there By Don S. It has more info.

You never did say what model outdrive you have.


http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=339953&highlight=volvo+280+intermediate+bearings

Not sure about the two screws, but the alignment is done by moving the engine.

 

[captmello]

Re: New noise after engine removal and reinstallaion

I noticed you posted to the thread I linked you to for the manual by accident.

Anyway, the upper screw on the cover has a hook that screws on the backside and grabs the case from the inside.

I'll bet you could see it on the Volvo Parts breakdowns. Click on volvo penta parts at the top of the forum and have a look. Lots to be learned in there. #76 is your part. Dealer only.

http://www.volvopentastore.com/UPPER_GEAR_UNIT_AQ_DRIVE_UNIT_280/dm/*******.535038463--**********.223626640--store_id.366--view_id.327463

have a look at this.

http://www.marinepartsexpress.com:8080/mpeCart/details.faces?productId=897873

If you look at the manuals I linked you to, the 280 and 270 have different exhaust ports. 270,275's have sort of a upside down triangle with a rubber flapper, and 280,290's have longer horizontal exhaust without a visible flapper.

Do you know what year your boat is??? Its a 350? Is there an AQ### on the motor? Lets figure out what model engine and drive we're working with.

Post some pics if you have the technology.

 

[Kahlua en Cream]

Re: New noise after engine removal and reinstallaion

the boat is a 1976 bayliner closed bow, 20ft, 350 V8, AQ280 outdrive. The boat was found under a tree, rotten, about 10 years ago. the owner twice removed from me rebuild the boat internals and put a new engine it. Not sure what he did or didn't do specifically. I wish he did the intermediate housing bearings and put brass freeze plugs in, it would have saved all this work!

 

[myoldboat2]

Re: New noise after engine removal and reinstallaion

Kahlua en Cream> Is alignment of the coupler/damper plate critical on my volvo outdrive?

I don't think anyone addressed that, unless I missed it. Does the coupler need any sort of alignment when reinstalling on the flywheel? Same question for a Mercruiser (I'm getting ready to install a new coupler.) I can start a new thread if need be (not trying to hijack), but I thought Kahlua en Cream might like to hear about this reinstallation alignment. Thanks.

 

[captmello]

Re: New noise after engine removal and reinstallaion

Kahlua en Cream> Is alignment of the coupler/damper plate critical on my volvo outdrive?

I don't think anyone addressed that, unless I missed it. Does the coupler need any sort of alignment when reinstalling on the flywheel? Same question for a Mercruiser (I'm getting ready to install a new coupler.) I can start a new thread if need be (not trying to hijack), but I thought Kahlua en Cream might like to hear about this reinstallation alignment. Thanks.

Mercs and Older volvos have nothing in common when it comes to couplers and alignment. Completely different.

 

[captmello]

Re: New noise after engine removal and reinstallaion

the boat is a 1976 bayliner closed bow, 20ft, 350 V8, AQ280 outdrive. The boat was found under a tree, rotten, about 10 years ago. the owner twice removed from me rebuild the boat internals and put a new engine it. Not sure what he did or didn't do specifically. I wish he did the intermediate housing bearings and put brass freeze plugs in, it would have saved all this work!

The AQ number actually refers to the horsepower rating and not the Outdrive model. My engine for example, was originally an aq225 which is a chevy 305 with a 4 barrel Qjet carb rated at 225 HP. The previous owner put in a 350 and it became an aq260 rated at 260 hp. that could be what you've got. What carb do you have on your motor?

Again, I'd change out the ujoints before tearing into the bearings. Unless there is the side to side play in the drive shaft, in which case, motors got to come out again, preferably with the flywheel cover attached.

Check out this link. Enter your engine info in the search area and you can get an idea of what you have and look up some other info.

http://www.volvo.com/volvopenta/global/en-gb/marine_leisure_engines/parts_service/publication_search/publication_search.htm

 

[Kahlua en Cream]

Re: New noise after engine removal and reinstallaion

It has a rochester Q-jet 4 barrel. I looked at the pictures on the link above. The main thing I noticed is that the exhaust manifold in my boat is totally different. I'll go take some pics and post them.

 

[myoldboat2]

Re: New noise after engine removal and reinstallaion

Originally Posted by myoldboat2
Kahlua en Cream> Is alignment of the coupler/damper plate critical on my volvo outdrive?

I don't think anyone addressed that, unless I missed it. Does the coupler need any sort of alignment when reinstalling on the flywheel? Same question for a Mercruiser (I'm getting ready to install a new coupler.) I can start a new thread if need be (not trying to hijack), but I thought Kahlua en Cream might like to hear about this reinstallation alignment. Thanks.

captmello> Mercs and Older volvos have nothing in common when it comes to couplers and alignment. Completely different.

I don't think I was clear... I'm familiar with aligning the sterndrive shaft and coupler. I thought he was asking about runout of the coupler. I know when you install a flywheel on a Merc, you check the runout with a dial indicator. I thought Kahlua was asking if there's a procedure for aligning the axis of the Volvo coupler with the axis of rotation of the engine. I thought it was a great question and am curious about the same for Merc. I think all the manuals I've read for any make say to just bolt on the coupler. Seems like there might be some play there. Sorry if I misunderstood your question, Kahlua.



.

 

[captmello]

Re: New noise after engine removal and reinstallaion

I don't think I was clear... I'm familiar with aligning the sterndrive shaft and coupler. I thought he was asking about runout of the coupler. I know when you install a flywheel on a Merc, you check the runout with a dial indicator. I thought Kahlua was asking if there's a procedure for aligning the axis of the Volvo coupler with the axis of rotation of the engine. I thought it was a great question and am curious about the same for Merc. I think all the manuals I've read for any make say to just bolt on the coupler. Seems like there might be some play there. Sorry if I misunderstood your question, Kahlua.

I checked the oem manual and it made no mention of aligning the flywheel. It says to torque to 60ft/lb. Also simply bolt on torsional damper.

I've never worked on a merc, so....

 

[myoldboat2]

Re: New noise after engine removal and reinstallaion

i guess the memory is the first thing to go--i went back and looked at the manuals. my merc manual (#2) says, "Place drive coupling on studs and install washers and lock nuts. Torque nuts to specifications with Torque Wrench and Adapter." so that's as i remembered. as far as the flywheel, all it says is to line up the dowel hole. merc manual #3A says to check the flywheel runout with a dial indicator--but that's in the axial (fore-aft) direction, not the radial direction. sorry for the confusion--in my case, i guess it couldn't be helped...

it does strike me as odd to go through the alignment procedure so carefully before mounting the sterndrive, but the coupler just bolts on. i wonder what the tolerances are for volvo and for merc. with the merc alignment tool and the grease method (use the spline marks in the grease to judge alignment), i'd guess the shaft/coupler radial alignment is to about .025" or so (?). i wonder if the coupler/flywheel/mount holes are that close when in good shape. they must be, because everyone agrees that not getting the alignment right leads to coupler failure. i'll pay closer attention when i mount my new coupler.

kahlua, you mentioned the starter bendix not releasing--i recently had that. that is a racket--sort of faster and higher pitched than some of the clunk noises the drive can make. i was going to guess u-joints, but on a friend's boat with u-joints going, the knocking was lower pitched. maybe they can make other noises, too. sorry i can't help more, hope you find the problem.

 

[Kahlua en Cream]

Re: New noise after engine removal and reinstallaion

I pulled the engine again today to see how much play there is in the coupler plate when loosly mounted to the flywheel. I didn't measure it but it is really small. So small (.001"-.005") it is hard to believe alignment is necessary. It must be that the holes in the coupler are "close tolerance".

I ordered the new bearings earlier today. I'll put them in next week. when I had the engine out I spun the intermediate shaft. The bearings sound horrible. earlier I ran the boat for a bit and listened to the noise. Then we took a 36" alum rod and put one end in our ear and one end on different parts of the engine. What cool trick. when we put it on the intermediate housing you could really isolate the bearing noise as being the "new noise". When we put it on the water pump you could hear water sloshing around.