First boat: VIP Valiant

[SeanT]

Hey all

I got curious about the top speed of my boat this evening so I did some looking around and found this forum. I've had my 1989 Valiant 1850 I/O for about a year now and it's been running really well. It's got a 4.3L OMC Cobra engine and lower drive. I had the leg rebuilt when I winterized her last year. Attached is a picture from right after I unwrapped and shined her up from hibernation.

http://www.rucker.ca/photos/vehicles/vipvaliantboat/100_1107.jpg

When I run WOT and trim I can get maybe 35MPH. Now, this includes myself (nearly 300lbs, my wife, and three kids, oldest is 9). Combined weight of all of us probably 700 - 750lbs. Not to mention fuel and some accessories on top of the dry weight, which I think I researched was about 2375lbs.

Does that seem reasonable? The only other problem I seem to have is that it's a bit cranky when cold, and needs a good warming up before I start pulling skiers. I do on occasion have trouble starting her, but I'm convinced so far that it's my own fault, I get a little overzealous and flood the engine trying to get it going.

Anyway, glad to have found some other VIP owners!

 

[MikDee]

Re: First boat: VIP Valiant

Welcome to iboats, Nice boat! What's the horsepower rating? Is it a 4bbl 4.3 V6? Then that boat should do about 45mph. If you can give us your maximum rpm, WOT (wide open throttle) speed, & prop pitch we can help you further, and when was it tuned up last? thanks Mike

 

[SeanT]

Re: First boat: VIP Valiant

How do I find out more of the engine specs? I'm taking it out this weekend - do you want the maximum RPM and speed while running WOT? Also, I don't have a GPS (yet) and I'm relying on a speedo with a tube assembly that doesn't even seem to register anything below 10MPH anyway. I'll also get the prop pitch later too - that should be printed on the prop somewhere, right?

Also, I've not had it tuned up yet, so I suspect it may be due for one. I'm also troubleshooting a minor leakage problem, which I think is due to a not-quite-perfectly mounted fish finder sensor at the rear of the boat by the last owner.

 

[MikDee]

Re: First boat: VIP Valiant

You would need an OMC service manual, available usually at any marine store, or website. Yes, WOT speed, & Max rpm, Do you know if it's a 2bbl, or 4bbl carb? Take a look, If the engines not marked, usually the 4.3- 2bbl is 190hp, the 4bbl is 205hp. The WOT rpm range for your motor should be between 4200-4600rpm. Prop pitch sometimes is stamped on the side of the prop between the blades like: P19, or P21, or there's a bunch of numbers stamped on the hub, behind the prop nut, & washer. There is usually a small fuel filter in the carb. right behind the big nut where the fuel line goes in, and there also should be a spin on fuel filter/water seperator, you can change these yourself, if you're at all handy. One more important thing I need to know is, if it has an electronic ignition or breaker points in the distributor.

 

[SeanT]

Re: First boat: VIP Valiant

Still working on some of the other info, and we're hoping to get out later today so I'll get WOT and RPM numbers. I read up some more on trimming and I may not be trimming right, so I'll play with that a bit as well, but that will probably only add a few MPH.

Both of my props are 14 1/2 X 19 - one stainless steel and one aluminum. The steel prop is on the boat at the moment, the aluminum one is a little dinged up from some rockage last year. I did some reading and apparently the aluminum one will actually bend a bit while running, so it will behave more like a pitch lower than the rating.

Also, I'm pretty sure its a 2bbl carb, and I was told by the PO that the motor was 185 horsepower. It says 2JET on the carb, but I don't have a service manual yet. The local shop had OMC manuals from 74' to 86', but nothing at the moment for '89 (i'll probably look online). I'm also not sure if its electronic ignition yet.

One question in the meantime - when the PO installed the fish finder he sealed the sensor mounts using what looks like marine silicon, which I read is not supposed to be used under the water line, so I think this is the cause of my leak (which isn't major, just can't leave her in the water overnight ). If I rip it all off, what should I seal everything with instead? PL?

Thanks for the help so far!

 

[SeanT]

Re: First boat: VIP Valiant

Found OMC manual elsewhere on the forums (yay!).

Confirmed - 2BBL carb. Still not sure about ignition, need to read some more.

EDIT: "All 1986 - 1989 models and many 1990 modesl were equipped with a standard breaker points ignition system."

So, breaker points ignition as well.

 

[MikDee]

Re: First boat: VIP Valiant

Okay good work! First, You must get all the silicon out where the holes are, and clean it good then use marine 4200, or 5200, sealer (the 5200 is harder & stronger then you probably need) 4200 is fine, but use whichever you can find usually even Walmart or K-mart has this stuff.

Yes, a stainless prop is better, it doesn't flex, and will give you best performance all around. As I figured it is a 19" prop. Even with a 2bbl 185hp motor, you should be seeing at least 45mph WOT @ 4600rpm.

You never mentioned your WOT rpm? please do it's important!

Mercruiser, Volvo, & OMC, sometimes have different WOT rpm specs, the rpm range for most Mercs is 4200-4600, look them up in your manual, OMC might say 4400-4800 rpm for your engine?

Breaker points do wear out, and get out of adjustment. Usually they need to be replaced, & reset, every couple of years. When this is done, the timing also has to be reset, because it affects that as well.

The way trimming is used, is mostly at WOT, once you get there, you trim up a little at a time till you get the highest speed, & rpm, if you trim up too much you'll start to feel slippage, and hear it, at the prop, then just trim down a little bit to optimum trim. It is a "feel" you'll get used to. If you have working trim gauge make note of the best trim for future reference, I never had a working one on any of my boats but found it really wasn't necessary once I got the feel. One more thing, I never used trim for anything else, except for running in the flats, & beaching, also only use trim if you have to, on plane,,, don't use trim if you're trying to plane off, it puts a load on the engine, & drive train then.

It appears your engine is not developing full power if you only get 3K at WOT
I would suggest new fuel filters in the carb (behind the big fuel line nut usually), and the spin on fuel filter/water separator, if you haven't done this already? good luck, Mike

 

[SeanT]

Re: First boat: VIP Valiant

You never mentioned your WOT rpm? please do it's important!

Sorry - still working on that. I've actually had a change of plans as well and I won't have the boat out this weekend. (I've had to return it to the mechanic that rebuilt the leg for me last year because there seems to be a water/oil leak inside the leg somewhere that they were already supposed to have fixed. When I was checking levels and getting ready to head out today I noticed it and had to take it in.) So, leave this with me and I will re-post when I have that info.

Mercruiser, Volvo, & OMC, sometimes have different WOT rpm specs, the rpm range for most Mercs is 4200-4600, look them up in your manual, OMC might say 4400-4800 rpm for your engine?

Checked the manual, you are right 4200-4600 for 4.3 2bbl. 4400-4800 for 4.3 4bbl. Also, it says 160HP at the prop, not the 185 or 190 I originally thought.

Breaker points do wear out, and get out of adjustment. Usually they need to be replaced, & reset, every couple of years. When this is done, the timing also has to be reset, because it affects that as well.

Is this something included in a typical tune up? I may just have a (good) mechanic give it an overhaul and tuneup. Either way I'll ask for this, or just take care of it myself.

It appears your engine is not developing full power if you only get 3K at WOT
I would suggest new fuel filters in the carb (behind the big fuel line nut usually), and the spin on fuel filter/water separator, if you haven't done this already? good luck, Mike

I'm pretty sure the RPM is not that low, but I need to check, I just don't remember off the top of my head. Either way, this boat is probably due for all of the things you've mentioned, so I will be taking care of that in the next few weeks (starting when I get my boat back).

Thanks for all the help Mike!

 

[MikDee]

Re: First boat: VIP Valiant

Sorry - still working on that. I've actually had a change of plans as well and I won't have the boat out this weekend. (I've had to return it to the mechanic that rebuilt the leg for me last year because there seems to be a water/oil leak inside the leg somewhere that they were already supposed to have fixed. When I was checking levels and getting ready to head out today I noticed it and had to take it in.) So, leave this with me and I will re-post when I have that info.


Checked the manual, you are right 4200-4600 for 4.3 2bbl. 4400-4800 for 4.3 4bbl. Also, it says 160HP at the prop, not the 185 or 190 I originally thought.

Don't worry, that 4.3 is a strong little engine when running good, a common upgrade on this forum, is a 4bbl would give you about 20-25hp more though, and we're talking 50mph in that boat then!


Is this something included in a typical tune up? I may just have a (good) mechanic give it an overhaul and tuneup. Either way I'll ask for this, or just take care of it myself.

Yes,,,, and, it's not that hard to do, you can do it yourself, but you'll need to have a timing light to set the timing afterwards


I'm pretty sure the RPM is not that low, but I need to check, I just don't remember off the top of my head. Either way, this boat is probably due for all of the things you've mentioned, so I will be taking care of that in the next few weeks (starting when I get my boat back).

Thanks for all the help Mike

No problem I love those VIP's, of all the boats at the boat show on L.I. many yrs ago, they were my favs, I almost bought a new one, an outboard bowrider, when they first came out,,, But couldn't come up with the dough
All the Best, Mike

 

[SeanT]

Re: First boat: VIP Valiant

Regarding the 3M 4200 - I actually couldn't find any (doesn't mean it's not there, maybe just the hardware store I was at), but I did find Marine Goop - which it says is good above or below the water line. Comes in a tube like PL or other silicon (fits in a silicon gun). It cures, is sandable, and can be painted. It sounds like it will do fine, and I've never been dissappointed by Goop. What do you think?

 

[VIPcole]

Re: First boat: VIP Valiant

How do I find out more of the engine specs? I'm taking it out this weekend - do you want the maximum RPM and speed while running WOT? Also, I don't have a GPS (yet) and I'm relying on a speedo with a tube assembly that doesn't even seem to register anything below 10MPH anyway. I'll also get the prop pitch later too - that should be printed on the prop somewhere, right?

Also, I've not had it tuned up yet, so I suspect it may be due for one. I'm also troubleshooting a minor leakage problem, which I think is due to a not-quite-perfectly mounted fish finder sensor at the rear of the boat by the last owner.

Nice Boat! I like the colors...

Any way I was going to mention that on My 88 VIP Vixen, also only using the speedo with the tube, its would registor about 48 on the dial, but when i finally took my GPS i was hitting 60!! so the moral of the story dont trust that tube speedo on an older boat.

 

[SeanT]

Re: First boat: VIP Valiant

Thanks

Right now I'm treating that speedo like your average bathroom scale - it might be wrong, but at least its wrong all the time. Once I get the boat out I need to figure out if the RPM at WOT makes sense, and also see if trimming properly gets me a better speed. Then I'll report back.

But yeah, I'm really curious now, so I'll probably pick up some sort of hand held GPS unit for that.

 

[SeanT]

Re: First boat: VIP Valiant

So, the reason for my delay on getting RPM info is that my boat is back at the mechanic right now (as mentioned above). Turns out, the cause for the milk shake in the lower unit is apparently the drive shaft for the prop is bent, and so as it spins, the seal opens (or something) letting water in.

I know when this probably happened, last year when I dinged up my prop on an old breakwater that the water now covers at my dad's lake (he's since gone to find it on his pontoon and hasn't located it so far...) Anyway, that's not the point. Since then, my mechanic did what they told me is a full leg rebuild, last year when they winterized it.

So, I bluffed a little, but gave them a bit of hell for not catching this last year, resulting in two more visits, losing me summer boat time. I told him I have no problem paying for parts that I need, but they had better help me out on the labor for this visit. Of course he's not promising me anything right now (I probably wouldn't either, and I'm also in service in another industry), but he said that he did agree that something would be done. Then he complained a little that he doesn't know how long the OMC parts will take to arrive and would get back to me.

Anyway, did I play the right bluff? Does this sound like something they should have caught last fall?

 

[SeanT]

Re: First boat: VIP Valiant

Well, I don't know if anyone (Mikdee?) is still reading, but after getting hung up at the CAD/US border, the parts they needed arrived this week and the wankers found that they ordered the wrong prop drive shaft (I managed to bend mind last year).

So they are airlifting in another one, this time from within the country (I guess, they're either bull****ting me on something or I'm misunderstanding why its suddenly available in Canada - maybe related to not having the right part number...). Anyway, I've lost almost the entire month of July to something I believe they should have fixed last winter. I'm dumping these guys as soon as I get my boat back.

Anyway, it is now becoming my all consuming quest to get the boat out and finally get back to you on the WOT RPM and trim MPH!!!!

I've already priced out a tune-up, etc at another mechanic, but unless I tackle some of it myself, I'll probably have it done this winter or next spring.

 

[SeanT]

Re: First boat: VIP Valiant

Alright - finally. After a debacle where I ended up getting my prop shaft replaced (I have the old one, it's bent quite out of spec), I finally got my boat back!

Got on the water tonight. At WOT and trim, I got up to around 42MPH at 4400RPM. 4400RPM was the absolute maximum I could muster. So far I'm pretty happy, it seems to be within engine spec. I was shocked at how much of a difference in speed properly trimming makes. I could feel the boat almost lurch forward when trimming up.