Firearms aboard boats

[alamosaddles]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

Just curious... has anyone actually been in a situation on a boat where a firearm has or would've helped??

There's movies about piracy in the Caribbean, but I've never actually heard of mugging/robbery etc on fresh water.

Alot of people boat in the ocean, salt water. Should I remind you how four men took over, hijacked, terrorized and killed aboard the Achille Lauro? It only took four men to do that...why? because passengers were not armed..Had they been armed, things would possibly have been different. Never underestimate the advantages of being armed.

I am glad to see that I am not the only level headed individual here with hyperstrong feelings about this topic.

 

[obezag]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

No I'm not a cop. But I greatly respect and admire anyone who chooses this noble profession. No I'm not anti-gun. I've owned firearms most of my adult life. Have a handgun permit for over 20 years. But I'll bet that maybe 25% of people who carry actually take the time to train proficiently in the use of weapons.

 

[Pierutrus]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

No I'm not a cop. Have a handgun permit for over 20 years. But I'll bet that maybe 25% of people who carry actually take the time to train proficiently in the use of weapons.

It's required.....at this time.
Time for you to go back and take that course......
So you'll know!

 

[TheWoodCrafter]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

Alot of people boat in the ocean, salt water. Should I remind you how four men took over, hijacked, terrorized and killed aboard the Achille Lauro? It only took four men to do that...why? because passengers were not armed..Had they been armed, things would possibly have been different. Never underestimate the advantages of being armed.

I am glad to see that I am not the only level headed individual here with hyperstrong feelings about this topic.

Speaking of the Achille Lauro I know that the success of the pirates around the world is due in part because fire arms are not allowed on merchant vessels or cruse ships.
Does this trickle down to our boats too in international waters?

 

[The Great Escape II]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

A flare gun is NOT a firearm as defined under federal law. Are you saying that Georgia classifies a flare gun as a firearm? That being the case, I assume that your local marine or boat shop does NOT sell flare guns, correct?


Additionally, as a Federal Firearms Licensed dealer, I will tell you this. DO NOT listen to what anyone in this forum tells you regarding the legality of your firearms possession aboard you boat in any given body of water. Though federal law does not prohibit such posession, each and every state may have different laws which govern such act. Not finding out what YOUR state and municipality say about this can end your right to have a firearm, forever.

Finally, if you do carry a firearm aboard your vessel, I strongly recommend that if you are stopped or boarded by any LEA, that one of the first things you tell them is that you have a firearm aboard. Not doing so can be a nasty suprise to the LEO and of dire consequence to you.

I personally carry a firearm with me EVERYWHERE in the State of Florida. This right is not given to me due to a concealed weapons permit, but due to a Statewide Firearms License which states clearly "The authority of any such licensee to carry a concealed firearm shall be valid throughout the state, in any location". I have been in schools, bars, clubs, inside police stations and even entered the Broward County court armed, once. I have a private investigators license, and I can declare that I am working at any time, in any place. I can get away with being in the wrong place, at the wrong time with a gun....If you cannot do that, don't risk your rights.

A flare gun is considered a projectile device and IS ILLEGAL on our lakes and any lakes operated by the Army Corp. This is right off the rules and regs for lakes controlled by the Corp and applies to boating. Most of us are not "hunting" while we are boating. My reference is for a flare gun and that would be illegal. I suggest you check you local laws.

Sec. 327.13 Explosives, firearms, other weapons and fireworks.

(a) The possession of loaded firearms, ammunition, loaded projectile
firing devices, bows and arrows, crossbows, or other weapons is
prohibited unless:
(1) In the possession of a Federal, state or local law enforcement
officer;
(2) Being used for hunting or fishing as permitted under Sec. 327.8,
with devices being unloaded when transported to, from or between hunting
and fishing sites;
(3) Being used at authorized shooting ranges; or
(4) Written permission has been received from the District
Commander.
(b) Possession of explosives or explosive devices of any kind,
including fireworks or other pyrotechnics, is prohibited unless written
permission has been received from the District Commander.


http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2001/julqtr/36cfr327.13.htm

 

[BillP]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

Amen for being prepared and not depending on 911.

1st 911 call took 25 minutes to respond.
2nd 911 call took 10 minutes to respond.
Calls to "my little 357 friend" take 5-10 seconds to respond.

25 minutes is for baking brownies.
10 minutes is for running to the store and buying milk to drink with brownies.
5-10 seconds is for self protection.

bp

 

[dave11]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

Without the right to bear arms, we would still be drinking tea instead of coffee.

"A man without a gun is a subject. A man with a gun is a citizen."

I don't leave home without either.

You should always be aware of your surroundings and always be looking for things that are "Not right." Pay attention! It could save your life.

Alamo has excellent advice.

 

[alamosaddles]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

A flare gun is considered a projectile device and IS ILLEGAL on our lakes and any lakes operated by the Army Corp. ]

Wrong.

This is right off the rules and regs for lakes controlled by the Corp and applies to boating. I suggest you check you local laws.]

I took you up on your suggestion, something you should have done yourself before you spewed misinformation on a public forum such as this one.

Sec. 327.13 Explosives, firearms, other weapons and fireworks.

(a) The possession of loaded firearms, ammunition, loaded projectile
firing devices, bows and arrows, crossbows, or other weapons is
prohibited unless:
(1) In the possession of a Federal, state or local law enforcement
officer;
(2) Being used for hunting or fishing as permitted under Sec. 327.8,
with devices being unloaded when transported to, from or between hunting
and fishing sites;
(3) Being used at authorized shooting ranges; or
(4) Written permission has been received from the District
Commander.
(b) Possession of explosives or explosive devices of any kind,
including fireworks or other pyrotechnics, is prohibited unless written
permission has been received from the District Commander..]

Sir, without meaning any disrespect, you should look before you leap. Despite the fact that I know I am correct, I went the extra step of getting on the telephone and speaking directly with the U.S. Coast Guard Seventh District, the Army Corp. of Engineers and the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commision, all of which have control and different levels of responsibility and authority over some of the bodies of water which you are referring to.

They all agree that a flare gun is NOT prohibited on bodies of water managed by the ACOE.

In fact, from the mouth of the law enforcement officer in charge at the Florida Fish and Wildlife Commision, " a flare gun is not a firearm and is classified as safety equipment by the Coast Guard".

The Army Corp of Engineer Regulatory Division also disagrees with your interpretation of the federal code and states "flare guns are allowed as safety equipment".

The Coast Guard Seventh District states "someone has incorrectly labeled a flare gun as a firearm" and "a flare gun is one of a number of marine safety devices which we require or allow aboard vessels. They are permitted on bodies of water, including those managed by the Army Corp."

Should you have doubts, you should call them and clear your mind before you go quoting federal code using YOUR definitions which are wrong.

FFWC Law Enforcement Division 850-488-5600
USCG Seventh District 305-415-6800
ACOE Jacksonville Regulatory 904-232-1177


So, as I had said. A flare gun is NOT a firearm under the law unless it is used against another person or against anothers property. Furthermore, if you load a flare gun with an anti personel round such as rubber balls, baton, exploding rounds etc., it will then be classified as a destructive device by ATF, and now you will have a problem. Flare guns are allowed aboard EVERY BOAT as safety equipment allowed and specifically designated by the United States Coast Guard.

 

[obezag]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

Pierutrus. I live in a state which has probably the most stringent laws where handgun permits are concerned. It was an eight hour safety course when I was getting mine. Think it's still the same. Don't even have to fire a gun. I was a character reference for my neighbor who was applying for the permit a year ago. Never even received a verification phone call from the local authorities. I believe in every citizens right to own a firearm but if your not fully trained in the use of that firearm and train routinely, I wish you would leave it home when you're out and about. My final word.

 

[fdmsiv]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

The State of Louisiana requires Visual Distress signals for coastal waters :

"All recreational boats, when used on coastal waters and the territorial seas, up to a point where a body of water is less than two miles wide must be equipped with visual distress signals. Boats owned in the United States operating on the high seas must be equipped with visual distress signals. The following are excepted from the requirements for day signals and only need carry night signals when operating at night:

- Recreational boats less than 16 feet in length.
- Boats participating in organized events such as races, regattas, or marine parades.
- Open sailboats less than 26 feet in length not equipped with propulsion machinery.
- Manually propelled boats.

Pyrotechnic visual distress signals must be Coast Guard approved, in serviceable condition and stowed to be readily accessible. They are marked with a date showing the serviceable life and this date must not have passed. Launchers produced before January 1, 1981, intended for use with approved signals are not required to be Coast Guard approved."

The last paragraph is pretty interesting, I guess if your 12 GA was made after Jan. 1 '81 would be good to go in LA.

Just as most of the other posters have pointed out, each state will have a different law. To avoid the whole handgun or long gun debate, I only carry class III weapons on board

 

[BF]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

Alot of people boat in the ocean, salt water. Should I remind you how four men took over, hijacked, terrorized and killed aboard the Achille Lauro? It only took four men to do that...why? because passengers were not armed..Had they been armed, things would possibly have been different. Never underestimate the advantages of being armed.

My point was that I can see why it would be prudent to be armed when you're offshore (ocean) and there definitely ARE bad people looking to prey on people. Particularly when in international waters and these thugs can hide...

The other part was that I've never heard of a mugging/piracy act etc. on freshwater lakes and that the threat seems to be low... for example much lower than if you were to walk around any urban center.

If you are out one wonderful sunny day with your grandkids, and your in the mall, and someone goes on a shooting rampage and you and your grandkids are trapped with the maniac heading your way.....Don't be afraid. You can call 911 and wait for them to come draw the chalk around your bodies. You can give yourself and your grandkids comfort by explaining to them how you just didnt think you would need a gun so you gave it up.....

Sure, we can IMAGINE all kinds of situations where being armed would save the day. My Q was whether anyone had encountered or even heard of one on fresh water, in real life, while boating. (not counting duck hunting ) I'll repeat if firearms were common in boats on freshwater lakes, I think you'd see real-life incidents of "boat rage" shootings that would far outstrip any other on-the-water crime. I lived close to DC for a while. Road rage gun fights were common on the beltway... these were mostly between people that were armed for self-defense purposes, not attempted muggings. I'm not saying everyone, or even a large portion of people packing are hot-heads... but some will be. I asked a friend to estimate how many people were packing down there... he guessed 60-70% in their cars. But who knows, maybe that's way off.

I just don't think thieves/muggers etc take out their boats and go do freshwater piracy.. too hard to get away I'd imagine. Low lifes are much more likely to go break into your parked truck or empty house and steal what they can I think.

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

Please don't be insulted, but that is a terribly naive view of why you should be armed, and of why you should have a ccw.....

You don't wear your seat belt right? I mean, unless you are in a wreck, you don't really need it, so why put it on?

Public buildings have built in fire sprinkler systems and fire extinguishers through the buildings...why, I mean, the buildings not on fire is it?

You don't carry a gun because you plan on using it..You carry a gun because if you find yourself in a situation where your life will depend on it...you have the option of living another day.

Knock on wood that you have not needed a gun, and hope that you don't ever need a gun. But know this.

If you are out one wonderful sunny day with your grandkids, and your in the mall, and someone goes on a shooting rampage and you and your grandkids are trapped with the maniac heading your way.....Don't be afraid. You can call 911 and wait for them to come draw the chalk around your bodies. You can give yourself and your grandkids comfort by explaining to them how you just didnt think you would need a gun so you gave it up.....

I'm not insulted, but your example of the mall example sorta makes me laugh. In this state, just about any mall, business, or municipal building prohibits you to carry even with a permit. According to our law, we are supposed to leave it up to the LEO's that we pay taxes for. With my luck if such an incident occurred and I had to protect my family and self, I would be the one getting arrested for the outcome. Of course that is just the way my luck goes.

"IF" is a small word that has the most ramifications to our society. Everything is a risk. It is up to the individual to prevent and avoid those risks by the means necessary by training and knowledge. It is ignorance that gets people killed or injured.

I do love guns and own quiet a few. I find it more important to keep them secure as to not let them get into the wrong hands.

In my case, my work and the places I take my family, I strongly feel that to carry would be more of a nuisance for my lifestyle. If I was employed at the Post Office,,,,,,,,well put it this way,,,,,I just might consider it! however, our laws would prohibit it...........SS

 

[alamosaddles]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

The other part was that I've never heard of a mugging/piracy act etc. on freshwater lakes and that the threat seems to be low... for example much lower than if you were to walk around any urban center.

I just don't think thieves/muggers etc take out their boats and go do freshwater piracy.. too hard to get away I'd imagine. Low lifes are much more likely to go break into your parked truck or empty house and steal what they can I think.

I can agree with you in that I have never heard of a piracy or similar incident in fresh water. That said, let's keep in mind that things have a way of occuring when and where you least expect them. I am not suggesting everyone should be armed aboard their boat. However, I am saying that thinking it cannot happen when you are boating is not realistic either. The criminal element is constantly looking for better ways to prey on the innocent, and they are always looking to attack where there is less chance of resistance. Failing to plan, is planning to fail. If we are prepared for what "could" happen, then should anything ever occur, we have a much better chance for a positive outcome than if we sit around and keep telling ourselves, I'll be ok, thats what the police are for etc. We are all potential victims..question is, when the moment comes, will you make it easier for the criminal, or will you be the speedbump in the road that he wasn't expecting.

 

[alamosaddles]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

I'm not insulted, but your example of the mall example sorta makes me laugh. In this state, just about any mall, business, or municipal building prohibits you to carry even with a permit. According to our law, we are supposed to leave it up to the LEO's that we pay taxes for. With my luck if such an incident occurred and I had to protect my family and self, I would be the one getting arrested for the outcome. Of course that is just the way my luck goes.

"IF" is a small word that has the most ramifications to our society. Everything is a risk. It is up to the individual to prevent and avoid those risks by the means necessary by training and knowledge. It is ignorance that gets people killed or injured.

I do love guns and own quiet a few. I find it more important to keep them secure as to not let them get into the wrong hands.

In my case, my work and the places I take my family, I strongly feel that to carry would be more of a nuisance for my lifestyle. If I was employed at the Post Office,,,,,,,,well put it this way,,,,,I just might consider it! however, our laws would prohibit it...........SS

I do apologize, I was unaware you lived in a communist country<---sarcasm. Thank goodness, I live in Florida where the right to keep and bear arms is written into our own state constitution.

There are a few malls in Florida where they have posted that firearms, even with a concealed permit are not permitted on their premises.

Now, if when I walked around in that mall I saw many armed officers, security or law enforcement, I may quietly leave my weapon in my lockbox in the vehicle. Now, seeing that all mall security in that mall is unarmed, and they seem more like kids in a uniform than actual trained officers, I disregard the posting if I enter one of those malls and I carry my weapon.

Since it's not a state law, it's not illegal, hence, at most I could be asked to leave the premises. I am not willing to turn over my own security to another who in the end, will look after his/her own self before they look after me. Frankly, if I want to carry a gun or a turd in my pocket when I go shopping, the mall has no business telling me I can or cannot do so. As long as I am not brandishing it and / or causing a disruption because of it, the mall is trying to impose the anti gun values of it's owners upon the patrons and thats ridiculous. If under the law, it is legal for you to have a weapon concealed on your person, then it's within the law. Just like having fingernail clippers is legal, they mall would be out of bounds if it declared "fingernail clipers are prohibited on the premises...".....It's just as ridiculous.

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

Ohio is new to the CCW's and we just got the Castle Law that should be in place soon. This is also a state in which nobody is allowed to smoke in a public/private establishment and clubs. You can smoke in your car, home, and outside with restrictions to that. It does suck when so much is taken away and limited.

We need to tread lightly on some of these subjects as they are borderline with the rules of iboats. It is their website and they have the right to moderate to their standards.

 

[The Great Escape II]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

Alamosaddles



I spoke today to our local ACOE Regulation Officer and they said based on their rules it is illegal, but do to the fact the Coast Guard recognizes this as a signalling device they have instructed their officers not to make this a ticketing offense. So in some aspects we were both right. Yes it is a law but ACOE overlooks this due to the Coast Guard rules. We both learned something!!

 

[Pierutrus]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

Pierutrus. I believe in every citizens right to own a firearm but if your not fully trained in the use of that firearm and train routinely, I wish you would leave it home when you're out and about. My final word.

My thought's exactly.
nuff said.

 

[ksubigbuck]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

"...but it is perfectly legal to stash it somewhere, or you can mount it in plain sight if you want."

Try the first one here in NC and you sir are going to jail, try the second in SC and you sir are going to jail....

Not all states are the same....

So, you are telling me that in NC you have to have the firearm displayed on the boat for all to see or you are breaking the law?

And, you are saying that in SC it has to be hidden or you are breaking the law?

I'm waving the BS flag here.

 

[Nandy]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

I should hav make myself clear. I dont know how does it works for the boats. I just tried to call to find out but no one is answering. That is the way it works in your land vehicle which is what I was using to illustrate that just because a law is one way in your state does not mean it works the same in others. In NC unless you have a ccw permit you must have your loaded handgun in your vehicle dash. If you want to carry without a ccw then it also has to be exposed. In SC you can have your gun loaded but in your glove compartment and it is completely legal but in the other hand you cant have it in your dash... In both states if you get stopped by a LEO you have to declare the gun intermediately.
You can save your flag for your post that could have gotten someone in trouble....

 

[Nandy]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

I do apologize, I was unaware you lived in a communist country<---sarcasm. Thank goodness, I live in Florida where the right to keep and bear arms is written into our own state constitution.

There are a few malls in Florida where they have posted that firearms, even with a concealed permit are not permitted on their premises.

Since it's not a state law, it's not illegal, hence, at most I could be asked to leave the premises.

Im surprised your state forces the private owner of a business to allow you to carry a gun in his private property and denies that owner his right to not allow guns in his private property. In NC even if you have a ccw you are not allowed to carry in a private property where it has been posted that guns are not allowed. Im not sure what the charge is, maybe is just trespassing... But I am sure that will be enough to get your ccw permit revoked.

Having wrote that, I have to admit that if I had to go to a mall that I will feel that threatened I would probably carry anyway. However the best option, when possible, would be not to go to that mall...