Finally ready to sand and paint. Primer????

rebuilt

Petty Officer 1st Class
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May 11, 2007
Messages
272
It's been awhile. I'm finally able to get back to my project. Ready to sand and paint. I've decided to go with a 1 part poly from the store here. Mine will trailer home at the end of the day, so constant immersion is not a problem. The existing gelcoat is chalky and dull, with some dings that will be fixed after beveling with gelcoat paste. So..... I was thinking about sanding the whole thing with about 120 grit on a small orbital sander. Your thoughts on that??? After I get it ready, is it necessary to prime it? If so, I'll order the primer when I order the paint. I could save some $$ by not priming, but if it's going to compromise the job, I'll prime it. I plan on keeping this one for a long time.
Thanks, KR
 

redfury

Commander
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
2,655
Re: Finally ready to sand and paint. Primer????

you will find swirlies if you orbital it with 120grit. I'd use 220 minimum for a final sand if you need to use 120 to get through the oxidation.
 

rebuilt

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Re: Finally ready to sand and paint. Primer????

That's what I needed to know. I'll start with 220 and see if it cuts the chalk. Do I need to prime it before I paint?
 

Tail_Gunner

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Re: Finally ready to sand and paint. Primer????

you will find swirlies if you orbital it with 120grit. I'd use 220 minimum for a final sand if you need to use 120 to get through the oxidation.


Good advice there and one question are you painting over virgin...:eek: gel-coat.......;)
 

rebuilt

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Re: Finally ready to sand and paint. Primer????

Yep, it's virgin :eek: gelcoat ;)
 

wire2

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Jun 25, 2007
Messages
1,584
Re: Finally ready to sand and paint. Primer????

I think it depends on the paint you're going to use.
PPG, CIL, Sikkens, etc. products have unique properties and requirements. I'd go to a paint supply and ask. As a potential customer, I expect they'd be willing to call the company for you.

If you do end up priming, I really like 2 part epoxy. You can sand with the 120, the epoxy will fill it smooth. It starts to cure when it leaves the gun, so is very run resistant. It cures in 8 hours, is rock hard in 48. Then a light scuff with 220 and will accept virtually any paint with no reaction.
 

Tail_Gunner

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Re: Finally ready to sand and paint. Primer????

Well if you want to do it right, spray on interlux prime-kote. uummmm yep
 

drewpster

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Oct 17, 2006
Messages
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Re: Finally ready to sand and paint. Primer????

Before you do any sanding be sure to dewax the surface. When the boat was built the manufacturer used a wax release agent to get the boat out of the mold. Traces of this wax can still be on the surface even after many years and washings. Most of the marine paint makers recommend this step even if the surface is chalky. Mold release will cause adhesion problems with the primer and paint. Interlux makes a solvent called 202 that is designed for wiping down to de-wax. Use two clean rags, one wet with solvent, the other dry to wipe down. It is recommended to turn the rag to a clean spot and change rags often. Interlux also makes a low VOC fiberglass solvent wash to do it. Make sure you dewax before and after initial sanding.
Skipping this step and sanding the hull will not remove the wax. In fact it will drive it further into the surface making it very difficult to remove. I little insurance.
Primers for marine paints are not primarily to aid paint adhesion. They are mainly used as a surfacer and sealer. The primer will fill tiny defects and will give a very smooth paint ready surface. I always use primers with one part Polyurethane no matter what. Marine poly paints are very shiney and defects stand out like a traffic light. That's why prep is so important. Interlux Pre-Kote primer is used for one part topside paints and Interlux Primekote is used for two part topside paints.
The steps are generally as follows
1) clean- mild soap, no wax additives, let dry
2) dewax- two rags, be thorough, change rags often
3) initial sanding- 220 grit, remove chalking, light sanding, no burn through
4) dewax again- two rags, remove sanding residue
5) repair work- fill scrapes, repair damage, grind crazing, fill ect, (if epoxy fillers are used, be aware of amine blush, amine blush is a waxy contaminate that is a byproduct of epoxy curing, it can be removed with water and a scotchbright pad, solvents will not remove it)
6) Fair in repairs by sanding- use sanding blocks 220 grit, sand repairs flush and feather them into surface
7) solvent wipedown- two rags, use solvent compatible with fillers used
8) Priming- highly recommended, two coats minimum, use compatible primer (stick with same name brands)
9) sand primer- one part primer 320+ grit (wet or dry) two part primer 220 grit dry, sand smooth as a baby's hiney.
10) solvent wipedown- Two rags, use thinner compatible with primer, (DO NOT use dewaxing solvent or prime coat will be damaged)
11) double check prep- thoroughly inspect work so far, go back if more prep is needed.
12) worry, obsess, drive others crazy with anticipation, go over every nook and cranny.
13) Paint- apply in optimum weather conditions, NO WIND, cooler temps, wet ground to prevent dust rising, use solvent resistant short nap foam roller, and quality china bristle or badger hair brush for tipping off, two coats minimum for one part paints, (sand 400 grit to haze between coats) 2-3 coats minimum for two part paints (sand 300-400 grit between coats)
14) smile in pride, your done
There is my process. generally
 

wire2

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
1,584
Re: Finally ready to sand and paint. Primer????

Good write up, Drewpster.
As with any task, there's varying levels of professionalism. You seem to have covered all the bases of "what might go wrong" for more satisfied smiles, less head scratching afterwards.
 

rebuilt

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
272
Re: Finally ready to sand and paint. Primer????

Wow, great write up. I'm using Easypoxy by Pettit, with Easypoxy undercoater primer. Using the 120 brushing thinner they had. I forgot the dewaxing solvent, I'll add that tomorrow. Should be a great looking boat. Thanks again, I'll stick with your plan. Pics in a couple of weeks. KR
 

Tail_Gunner

Admiral
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
6,237
Re: Finally ready to sand and paint. Primer????

Before you do any sanding be sure to dewax the surface. When the boat was built the manufacturer used a wax release agent to get the boat out of the mold. Traces of this wax can still be on the surface even after many years and washings. Most of the marine paint makers recommend this step even if the surface is chalky. Mold release will cause adhesion problems with the primer and paint. Interlux makes a solvent called 202 that is designed for wiping down to de-wax. Use two clean rags, one wet with solvent, the other dry to wipe down. It is recommended to turn the rag to a clean spot and change rags often. Interlux also makes a low VOC fiberglass solvent wash to do it. Make sure you dewax before and after initial sanding.
Skipping this step and sanding the hull will not remove the wax. In fact it will drive it further into the surface making it very difficult to remove. I little insurance.
Primers for marine paints are not primarily to aid paint adhesion. They are mainly used as a surfacer and sealer. The primer will fill tiny defects and will give a very smooth paint ready surface. I always use primers with one part Polyurethane no matter what. Marine poly paints are very shiney and defects stand out like a traffic light. That's why prep is so important. Interlux Pre-Kote primer is used for one part topside paints and Interlux Primekote is used for two part topside paints.
The steps are generally as follows
1) clean- mild soap, no wax additives, let dry
2) dewax- two rags, be thorough, change rags often
3) initial sanding- 220 grit, remove chalking, light sanding, no burn through
4) dewax again- two rags, remove sanding residue
5) repair work- fill scrapes, repair damage, grind crazing, fill ect, (if epoxy fillers are used, be aware of amine blush, amine blush is a waxy contaminate that is a byproduct of epoxy curing, it can be removed with water and a scotchbright pad, solvents will not remove it)
6) Fair in repairs by sanding- use sanding blocks 220 grit, sand repairs flush and feather them into surface
7) solvent wipedown- two rags, use solvent compatible with fillers used
8) Priming- highly recommended, two coats minimum, use compatible primer (stick with same name brands)
9) sand primer- one part primer 320+ grit (wet or dry) two part primer 220 grit dry, sand smooth as a baby's hiney.
10) solvent wipedown- Two rags, use thinner compatible with primer, (DO NOT use dewaxing solvent or prime coat will be damaged)
11) double check prep- thoroughly inspect work so far, go back if more prep is needed.
12) worry, obsess, drive others crazy with anticipation, go over every nook and cranny.
13) Paint- apply in optimum weather conditions, NO WIND, cooler temps, wet ground to prevent dust rising, use solvent resistant short nap foam roller, and quality china bristle or badger hair brush for tipping off, two coats minimum for one part paints, (sand 400 grit to haze between coats) 2-3 coats minimum for two part paints (sand 300-400 grit between coats)
14) smile in pride, your done
There is my process. generally



WOW Long winded MOFO aint he.........;)
 

drewpster

Commander
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
2,059
Re: Finally ready to sand and paint. Primer????

Thanks, I am no pro but I have been focused on this subject for what seems like forever. Trust me, be thorough and you won't regret it.
All roll/tipped baby!
perfect2.jpg
 
Last edited:

drewpster

Commander
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
2,059
Re: Finally ready to sand and paint. Primer????

I love to read myself write. T-hee.:D
 

rebuilt

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
272
Re: Finally ready to sand and paint. Primer????

I just read another post asking about which de-waxer. I called my local paint store, they don't have a clue. What is a good dewaxer that I can find locally? Say at Lowes or the typical paint store. Sherwin Williams etc. Denatured alcohol? Lacquer thinner? Xylene? Acetone? I don't care how harsh it is, the whole thing gets sanded, and primed at least twice after the bleach washdown, and dewax. Thanks in advance. KR
 

rebuilt

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
272
Re: Finally ready to sand and paint. Primer????

I found it. It's made by Dupont. It's called First Clean. According to the paint man at Carquest, it's specifally made as a dewaxer. About $35 a gallon.
 

ondarvr

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
11,527
Re: Finally ready to sand and paint. Primer????

Any NAPA store will have dewaxers and cleaners.

Release agents from building the boat don't last on the surface very long after the boat leaves the plant, but there is wax from whatever you or the previous owner applied, plus oil and other stuff from the water you boat in and don't forget road grime.
 

Tail_Gunner

Admiral
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
6,237
Re: Finally ready to sand and paint. Primer????

Sherwin William's has both a dewaxing agent and Xylene for about 15.00 a gallon, using a rubber gloves with Xylene is very effective.......that stuff is nasty.
 
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