Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

[bjcsc]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

4. I completely agree with the 2nd article posted -- when someone drives drunk and hurts/kills someone, society thinks its so horrific that the person was driving drunk, however, besides minor traffic offenses (like speeding, rolling a stop sign,etc), drunk driving is probably one of the most widely commited crimes. Especially drinking and operating a boat.

I agree as well. I have always found that interesting. Last year, the number of innocent people killed in the US by drunk drivers every 3 months was higher than 1) the number of people killed in NY on 9/11 2) The number of US casualties so far for the entire war in Iraq. Every three months!

 

[bouttime007]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

Same circumstance here (don't know if you read the article I attached on my first post) in that these five guys were just leaving a string of bars in town after a 12 hour drinking binge. Where the accident happened is the most narrow part of the lake: about 4 to 5 tenths of a mile- -not much in traffic lanes between shorelines. The lake itself isn't a wide one overall with the widest section being three quarters of a mile at the widest point. It is 16 miles long, btw. Where the victims were sitting is a danger zone as you can see. The drunks fire up the engines and head out and it becomes the boating version of Russian roulette. This poor guy who was killed grew up there on the lake and had to have known this danger. I just don't get why he would trust drunks flying out of town to be sure and see him? It was so wrong for them to be operating the boat in that condition, granted. The fact is that it happens (people drink and drive there and have doing it for many, many years) and you have to protect yourself by staying far from the drunks at the wheel. Tragic, just tragic.

I don't get the 20mph speed limit you guys have? Do they ever enforce it after dark? Here? We have one Sheriffs boat on the lake full-time. The catch to that is that the boat isn't out there full-time since the county budget isn't geared to pay for that kind of labor volume.

Maybe they were in that narrow part because they broke down? Couldve been the case.

 

[4Winns2]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

1. The drunk guy shouldn't have been driving so fast on a dark night
2. The killed guy shouldn't have parked in the middle of a narrow channel where he knows there is boating traffic.
3. The drunk guy shouldn't have been driving drunk
4. I completely agree with the 2nd article posted -- when someone drives drunk and hurts/kills someone, society thinks its so horrific that the person was driving drunk, however, besides minor traffic offenses (like speeding, rolling a stop sign,etc), drunk driving is probably one of the most widely commited crimes. Especially drinking and operating a boat.

Cptkid570:

We're on the same page here.

 

[4Winns2]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

Maybe they were in that narrow part because they broke down? Couldve been the case.

No, they were directly in front of their lake home which happens to be in that narrow and dangerous after two AM part of the lake.

What's been bothering me is why their boat wasn't under power. The media hasn't reported on that important point until this morning. Turns out that along with the nav lights on when the boat was found by the Sheriff's, the key was in the on position but the engine was off. Don't know if it stalled from the crash or stalled beforehand. I don't know what he was thinking but he had the opportunity, if the boat didn't stall, to drop her in forward and move out of the way quickly. We all know how fast a Mastercraft is out of the hole. Funeral was this morning for him and the whole mess is just so tragic.

The whole mess did get me to thinking. I do have a beer or two on board and rarely, if ever, drive at night anymore. If the wife and I go out it's usually for 5-6 hours. 85% of our boating is a troll speed enjoying the sights; the wife doesn't like to go fast and that's fine by me and the gas tank. Based on the amount of beer I always bring, I calculated my consumption to be roughly a beer an hour over that time- -and the bellies are full beforehand to help break up the alcohol. I don't think that's over doing it?

You'd hope that some good would come from of all this. Sadly, in the long run it won't. People will forget and resume this reckless activity of drinking till you drop and attempt to drive thier fiberglass home. I hope it affects some to the point of change so this poor guy's death isn't totally in vain. Safe boating to all this summer.

 

[4Winns2]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

For those interested in more detail on this story, the following link gives a pretty good picture of what transpired:

http://www.cnylink.com/cnynews/article.php?article_id=tZ1184100975t4693f26fe30ec

 

[rndn]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

They should put him away for a very, very, very long time.

 

[4Winns2]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

They should put him away for a very, very, very long time.

As much as I agree with you, I'm not sure that will happen in the merry ole state of New York. A few years back, a father let his 17 year old take his Ferrai (Skaneateles is a pretty affluent area) out on his high school graduation night. Flipped it and killed one of the two passengers and got vechicular manslaughter slapped on him. Was just released last week on probation after two years in the big house.

This only legal career (2nd year of law school at Arizona) this guy will have for awhile is advising fellow inmates on thier appeals. We'll see but I just hope it gets people thinking enough to make changes to be more safer on the water. It'll be wierd on the lake this weekend passing by this gentleman's home and knowing what happened their the weekend prior.

 

[salty87]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

They should put him away for a very, very, very long time.

everyone in that boat should be put away, unless they can prove that they called for help as soon as they got back. were they all brothers? sheesh, nice family.

i can't even imagine what i'd do if someone driving the boat i'm riding in broadsides another boat and then tries to flee the scene. obviously, jumping out of a moving boat in the middle of the lake isn't a great idea but ya gotta do something. toss the keys overboard? call the cops? toss the driver overboard?

 

[4Winns2]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

everyone in that boat should be put away, unless they can prove that they called for help as soon as they got back. were they all brothers? sheesh, nice family.

i can't even imagine what i'd do if someone driving the boat i'm riding in broadsides another boat and then tries to flee the scene. obviously, jumping out of a moving boat in the middle of the lake isn't a great idea but ya gotta do something. toss the keys overboard? call the cops? toss the driver overboard?

Well said, Salty. Yepper, this is just downright cowardly of all who were on board. I might understand it a little if these were just kids in panic but we're talking about adults ranging in age from 25 to 32. The only reason I heard for fleeing the scene is someone, don't know who, on board had the reasoning that "he's dead there is nothing we can do for him now." It had to be one of the two ejected on impact that swam to the victim's boat and boarded to discover this. Apparently, he didn't see the female who was still alive; she was hit first as the boat was hit on the passenger's side. She was reported to be under the passenger's bucket seat. Still doesn't make sense? I've cut water behind many a Mastercraft and there isn't much interior to overlook a wounded body especially when we're talking about a bucket seat as the passenger's seat. Plus, the stern light that was on was more than enough light to have seen her.

I'm sure everyone on board was panicked but there is no possible reason I can think of to leave. I can't help thinking that what happened after was all in effort to evade prosecution by getting out of there and creating an alibi. After all, they did call 911 an hour and half after to see if it had been reported yet. When questioned by the operator, they hung up. Fortunately, they didn't get it away with it as 911 calls are easily traced. For those on board who didn't speak up and say we need to stay here until emergency crews arrive, they have their conscience to live with till they die; who knows maybe they don't have a conscience- -it appears so at this point.

 

[QC]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

How are they going to prove the guy was drunk? I am guessing he gets the leaving the scene deal and nothing more when this is all said and done.

I am curious about something. One thing that always bugs me is that the assumption is that Alcohol caused this accident or any other accident where Alcohol may have been "involved". What if the cause was he is stupid and he is a carp boat operator? Yes, I assume that there was some level of impairment, but does that automatically mean that the "cause" was Alcohol? Also, what if the victims were plastered? Are they automatically guilty too? This is an interesting debate, and I in no way mean any disrespect for the victims, but these things are not crystal to me . . .

To be clear though, these guys are low life scum for leaving the scene! All of 'em.

 

[4Winns2]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

How are they going to prove the guy was drunk? I am guessing he gets the leaving the scene deal and nothing more when this is all said and done.

I am curious about something. One thing that always bugs me is that the assumption is that Alcohol caused this accident or any other accident where Alcohol may have been "involved". What if the cause was he is stupid and he is a carp boat operator? Yes, I assume that there was some level of impairment, but does that automatically mean that the "cause" was Alcohol? Also, what if the victims were plastered? Are they automatically guilty too? This is an interesting debate, and I in no way mean any disrespect for the victims, but these things are not crystal to me . . .

To be clear though, these guys are low life scum for leaving the scene! All of 'em.

QC:

Someone on a competing boat forum (don't think I can mention the name here in respect to Iboats), on a similiar thread subject going on now made the same argument as you. Meaning, it's not always alcohol that causes these accidents. I agree, I've seen enough rookies and not so rookies make plain human mistakes behind the helm without a beer open.

"Also, what if the victims were plastered?" Well, my best guess is they were at least drunk at 2:30 AM in that boat. The events of thier day indicated they had been drinking also. I don't know if they were hammered to the point that they couldn't hear or see a boat with nav lights on so close as not to move though. Do they bear some responsiblity? The fault they made, as it appears, is not to follow the law of self preservation on a lake where it's well known (remember, this now deceased 7 year veteran police officer grew up on this lake) that boaters get drunk and drive at that hour of the morning on a weekend night. It's certainty that there was no reason to be going as fast as they were in that kind of darkness- -I was out on the water around till 10 earlier that night. Hell, sit back, enjoy the ride and be careful: you'll get there eventually.

 

[rheyboer]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

4winn2:

Whats the story on the bar they were at? Constant problems or is this an isolated situation? Serving booze to someone obviously drunk could/should come back to haunt them. Not to take any responsibility off the donkey driving the boat. Noticed in the original artical how after the crash they went back to camp "AS FAST AS HE COULD". Holy Smokes! Hang 'em high.

I used to sail a lot at night and never felt uncomfortable because of my slow speed and the visability others would have of me due to all the canvas. Now as a powerboater I have great reservations of boating at night worrying if I can see everything out there and if the other guy can see me. Thats not even considering the boozehound factor.

 

[4Winns2]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

4winn2:

Whats the story on the bar they were at? Constant problems or is this an isolated situation? Serving booze to someone obviously drunk could/should come back to haunt them. Not to take any responsibility off the donkey driving the boat. Noticed in the original artical how after the crash they went back to camp "AS FAST AS HE COULD". Holy Smokes! Hang 'em high.

I used to sail a lot at night and never felt uncomfortable because of my slow speed and the visability others would have of me due to all the canvas. Now as a powerboater I have great reservations of boating at night worrying if I can see everything out there and if the other guy can see me. Thats not even considering the boozehound factor.

"Whats the story on the bar they were at? Constant problems or is this an isolated situation?" No, these are all upstanding establishments in Skaneateles. This is a tourist town and the boos do flow freely in the summer. Apparently, not all of these guys were hammered and maybe one or two mentioned that they were taking a cab back to camp- -which the smarter ones did.

Under NYS law, the three bars they were at during the night could be in trouble. Obviously, under the guidance of thier lawyers, the bars aren't saying anything right now. Since most of the boos transactions were made on credit card, thier investigating/tracking the amounts and purchase detail. All of these bars have modern PC based point of sale systems (I know, I'm in the POS business here in Syracuse) that can recall reports with item detail on each drink- -cash or credit card. It will make a difference if they see a whole bunch of tequilla shots on those tabs. The operator was also seen stumbling about spilling his beer. Since a BAC test wasn't adminstered until 12 hours after the fact (his brother took the fall for him first), they're not going to be able to use the BAC as a main line argument in thier prosecution. Witnesses and the bar tabs will be taking over for that as it appears from what I read.

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

Same circumstance here (don't know if you read the article I attached on my first post) in that these five guys were just leaving a string of bars in town after a 12 hour drinking binge. Where the accident happened is the most narrow part of the lake: about 4 to 5 tenths of a mile- -not much in traffic lanes between shorelines. The lake itself isn't a wide one overall with the widest section being three quarters of a mile at the widest point. It is 16 miles long, btw. Where the victims were sitting is a danger zone as you can see. The drunks fire up the engines and head out and it becomes the boating version of Russian roulette. This poor guy who was killed grew up there on the lake and had to have known this danger. I just don't get why he would trust drunks flying out of town to be sure and see him? It was so wrong for them to be operating the boat in that condition, granted. The fact is that it happens (people drink and drive there and have doing it for many, many years) and you have to protect yourself by staying far from the drunks at the wheel. Tragic, just tragic.

I don't get the 20mph speed limit you guys have? Do they ever enforce it after dark? Here? We have one Sheriffs boat on the lake full-time. The catch to that is that the boat isn't out there full-time since the county budget isn't geared to pay for that kind of labor volume.

I don't live in that area anymore, but it still a party zone for the weekend crowd out of Chicago and the western suburbs. And the boats are getting MUCH BIGGER AND FASTER!.
A story (I was lucky WAY to many times by the way)
Where Fox Lake, Grass Lake, and Nippersink lake all come together, it was a MESS on a busy weekend even in the daylight. I was pretty well known at the area (150XS Merc Shortshaft, surface prop, rooster tail better than a jet boat) and knew the cops (my girlfriend was the daughter of the Resort owner at the end of our channel). I had complained to the CG about tossing up no wake buoys in that congested area. Then I end up going to California for a few weeks. Come back, get up there late Friday night (this around 1980, and close to midnight), pick up my girlfriend and her brother, and we are heading out to (what else) a party at a friends on the other side of Fox Lake. So here I come barreling around the corner into the "war zone". Kick it down to around 30mph, and looking for traffic....come out in open water, and nail it..(now remember that rooster tail!)...my GF's brother is in the back...starts tapping me on the shoulder..."Look back, look back!!). My rooster tail is all light up red, white and blue!
I slows down to a stop, CG buddy standing on the bow SOAKING WET!. When he spots the boat as mine, it was basically " YA SOB...Gee darnit...YOU WAS THE ONE THAT WANTED THOSE NO WAKER'S IN!
They put them in while I was away...never saw them at night as I had been boating there for years and out of habit did what I always did. Had a good laugh, and we both went on our way....some stories end with a grin. ..(and after that, I always thought of someway to light up that rooster tail at night from the boat somehow!)

 

[4Winns2]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

I don't live in that area anymore, but it still a party zone for the weekend crowd out of Chicago and the western suburbs. And the boats are getting MUCH BIGGER AND FASTER!.
A story (I was lucky WAY to many times by the way)
Where Fox Lake, Grass Lake, and Nippersink lake all come together, it was a MESS on a busy weekend even in the daylight. I was pretty well known at the area (150XS Merc Shortshaft, surface prop, rooster tail better than a jet boat) and knew the cops (my girlfriend was the daughter of the Resort owner at the end of out channel). I had complained to the CG about tossing up no wake buoys in that congested area. Then I end up going to California for a few weeks. Come back, get up there late Friday night (this around 1980, and close to midnight), pick up my girlfriend and her brother, and we are heading out to (what else) a party at a friends on the other side of Fox Lake. So here I come barreling around the corner into the "war zone". Kick it down to around 30mph, and looking for traffic....come out in open water, and nail it..(now remember that rooster tail!)...my GF's brother is in the back...starts tapping me on the shoulder..."Look back, look back!!). My rooster tail is all light up red, white and blue!
I slows down to a stop, CG buddy standing on the bow SOAKING WET!. When he spots the boat as mine, it was basically " YA SOB...Gee darnit...YOU WAS THE ONE THAT WANTED THOSE NO WAKER'S IN!
They put they in while I was away...never saw them at night as I had been boating there for years and out of habit did what I always did. Had a good laugh, and we both went on our way....some stories end with a grin. ..(and after that, I always thought of someway to light up that rooster tail at night from the boat somehow!)

Made for a pretty yet unintended rainbow. That must be one of the "many" episodes that gave you the gray hair, LOL. Saw you and your line up of boats (nice!) on the Show yer boat thread that's been revived lately. Finally, re-sized mine so I could get my two boats in this show off thread. I can gleem at those kind of threads all day- -wife thinks I should be in boating addiction support group or something.

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

-wife thinks I should be in boating addiction support group or something.

Ha..tell her all we do in boater rehab is makes those ships in bottles!

 

[4Winns2]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

-wife thinks I should be in boating addiction support group or something.

Ha..tell her all we do in boater rehab is makes those ships in bottles!

She has even tried to take away my Four Winns cap that I've worked so hard to maintain with stains- -sweat, grease, beer, sun. I don't get this having look fashionable and clean all the time.

 

[Cptkid570]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

On this recent accident....How would everyone?s perception of this case change if the blood alcohol on the dead operator came back high and he was drunk (operator or the mastercraft)?. And if all of the guys on the sea ray stated that they were driving in the channel when the mastercraft shot out in front of them from the side of the channel?and that the mastercraft was in neutral because the operator was some how trying to slow down and get into reverse or something.

Not that I want to sit here and stick up for a drunk operator that runs from a fatality accident..but, we are assuming that he is the bad guy and is at fault. However, I?ve yet to hear about the BAC of the dead guy or any specific descriptions of exactly how the accident happened?

Just trying to keep an open mind towards the facts and not rush to judgment.

 

[4Winns2]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

On this recent accident....How would everyone’s perception of this case change if the blood alcohol on the dead operator came back high and he was drunk (operator or the mastercraft)…. And if all of the guys on the sea ray stated that they were driving in the channel when the mastercraft shot out in front of them from the side of the channel…and that the mastercraft was in neutral because the operator was some how trying to slow down and get into reverse or something.


Not that I want to sit here and stick up for a drunk operator that runs from a fatality accident..but, we are assuming that he is the bad guy and is at fault. However, I’ve yet to hear about the BAC of the dead guy or any specific descriptions of exactly how the accident happened?

Just trying to keep an open mind towards the facts and not rush to judgment.

As I stated in an earlier post on this thread, I believe that given the time, 2:30 AM, that the victims had been drinking. I don't know if they were so drunk that they couldn't see nav lights or hear a boat coming in their direction. The boat was in neutral and running with his nav lights on so all he had to do was drop her in forward and move out of the way. He must have thought the Sea Ray saw him. Hell no, I don't trust anyone to see me in pitch darkness, lights or no lights. Yes, I think the victim does bear some responsibilty for not following one of the boating laws of self preservation: trust no one to see you at night.

My wife and I discussed whether in this situation a BAC would be taken in the autopsy. She didn't think so but I believe they would in the investigation. He was buried this past Wednesday (RIP).

If you go to the first post in this thread it has an article URL in it that depicts the accident. Google: "boat crash in Skaneateles" and you'll get the local TV websites that have pics and video of the boats. The Mastercraft pic gives me the willies- -gruesome way to die.

It's nice to know you're one of the few out there that keeps an open mind. Most of Syracuse has already started building the gallows for this guy.

 

[4Winns2]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

For the video of the two boats involved in the deadly crash, click the link below.




http://www.news10now.com/content/top_stories/default.asp?ArID=112168