Another Case of Chocolate Milk Oil

[zollman1]

Hello Everyone,

I've been doing tons of research on this site and have been able to answer a lot of my own questions, but the time has come for me to register so I can ask some questions.

First off I have minimal mechanical experience, and I bought a 1998 Stingray 190LX used with 282 hours this past November from a dealer in Ocala, FL. It has a 4.3L mercruiser 262 cid. I got a lakefront condo in Orlando, FL and just had to have a boat to enjoy the lake with.. I picked up the boat for $7K when at the time it was worth $12K w/ a trailer in NADA. They told me they had just changed the oil, plugs, etc and that it ran like a champ, so in my trusting nature I didn't check the oil or do any in depth inspection other than visually checking everything out on the surface which looked good.

I brought the boat home and have probably put about 7 hrs on the boat before I encountered starter problems. Long story short I replaced the starter and that problem was solved. However, I started to notice the boat having trouble starting when it was hot, and didn't seem to be running 100%. I put the boat on the trailer, and decided to check the oil and check some other things in preperation for Memorial Day weekend and going up to Sliver Glen for some good times.

When I pulled the dipstick I got my first exposure to chocolate milk oil. Never seen or heard of it before, but I knew it couldn't be good. So started searching through this forum and found about every post on the subject.

So here is where I stand now:

I changed the oil once, only to find the new oil looked just as bad as what I had just changed after running it for a while after changing the oil. I decided wherever the water was coming from was probably still and issue and oil changes alone were not going to solve my problems. I got a buddy of mine who has years of experience to help me out with my issue. Also, as an FYI this boat look like it as seen some hours in Saltwater...

I took my boat to his house and proceeded to take out the spark plugs, almost every plug looked clean meaning water was in the picture. Next I took off the infamous One Piece Batwing Manifolds that were obviously the original manifolds. The driver side manifold looked the worst, gasket was shot, rusty, and signs of overheating on the bottom of it. Still didn'ts explain the clean plugs on the passenger side. Proceeded with removing the intake manifold and the heads. Found a blown head gasket on the other side, and found some signs that the intake manifold could of been letting water by too.

Had to get my boat out of the way at his house while I figured out what to do.. I have my boat parked at my condo with the block just sitting in the back. I took my heads and intake manifold to my uncle who works for a machine shop for him to clean the parts, magna flux test them, and possibly do a valve job on the heads (if needed). Haven't heard results yet, just gave them to him.

So here is my plan:

1. Currently extracting the oil out of the motor to get the water out
2. Need to go shopping for a valve grind kit, plugs, oil, oil filters (for multiple changes) all of the stuff to put everything back together.
3. Need to clean parts, valve covers, etc. and get all of the old gasket crap off.
4. Waiting on word from my uncle at the machine shop
5. Go back to my buddies place and start putting it all back together

My dilemma is what to do about the exhaust manifolds:

1. Put the old bat wings back on and cross my fingers?
2. Buy the new 2 piece manifold kit from Fred Warner on ebay and try to match it up with my existing Y pipe using this kit
http://www.ebasicpower.com/mm5/merc...e_Code=ebasicpower&Product_Code=BPIMANCONVKIT
which will run about $1K after it is all said done. Any know if it will work?

3. Buy the kit from Fred and pull the motor to change the Y pipe? (Really dont' want to pull the motor if I don't have too..)
4. Put the old bat wings back on and sell the damn thing..

Also, is there anything else I should do or replace while I have the motor torn down to this level?

Thanks in advance for your responses!

MZ

 

[zollman1]

Re: Another Case of Chocolate Milk Oil

Forgot to add that we found no obvious cracks in the block. I looked really hard all up and down the lifter valley and found no rust trails that would indicate a crack. I can take pictures and post those if anyone would like to see what it looks like.

Thanks again for you expert opinions\suggestions.

MZ

 

[Don S]

Re: Another Case of Chocolate Milk Oil

How much overfull was the oil level? After you changed the oil and put in the correct amount, did the oil level increase again after running it?
One other note, changing the oil one time will not clean the oil up. It will take several changes of oil and filter. Replacing a couple of quarts of the oil with diesel fuel will help clean milky oil out of the engine.

 

[superpop]

Re: Another Case of Chocolate Milk Oil

The first question I would ask yourself is whether or not you want a boat. If the answer is yes then you should spend the money to pull the motor and put a new exhaust system in, everything including Mani's risers, and y pipe. I would venture a guess that your manifold/riser assy is bad and I would NOT put garbage back on the boat and sell it, you would be doing a huge disservice to someone. If you do not want to own a boat then I would sell it as parts and try and get most of your money back. If you do want a boat then this is actually a good situation because after you do all of the work of repairing the motor and putting on the new exhaust you will know what you have and how long it should last with normal service. I hope you know what BOAT stands for "Break Out Another Thousand"

 

[Bondo]

Re: Another Case of Chocolate Milk Oil

From your post...... I'm leaning to the Manifolds being the Issue.........

Going back together with the Same Manifolds, or even New copies of the Same Manifolds Isn't a Good Idea in My Book......

Go to the 2 piece Manifolds,.....
How you get there is up to You.......

 

[zollman1]

Re: Another Case of Chocolate Milk Oil

Don S,

The oil level was well over the full line before the oil change. I'd guess atleast a few quarts. When I was changing the oil (after work) I was losing daylight fast so I don't think I got every last drop out, I didn't change the filter (couldn't get it off at the time), and I put 4 quarts back in. After running it, the oil level was still over the full line but not as much. I had seen the posts suggesting several oil changes, but after I had read about manifolds needing replaced after 5 yrs (give or take), I didn't want to do 3 oil changes only to be let down in the end and severly frustrated. When I put everything back together I plan on using your suggested method with the multiple changes and using diesel fuel to help rinse all of the bad oil out, and of course changing the filter each time.

The weird thing about all of this is the boat ran fine wide open, 50+ mph. Started up first try (when cold). I noticed problems when trying to start after the motor was hot, and some vibration at idle level speeds. The only other thing I noticed is one time I lifted the engine compartment cover and noticed some type of liquid kind of boiling and bouncing around on top of the intake manifold. That is when I headed straight for the boat ramp. I stll don't know what that was...

Superprop,

Thanks for your advice. Yes, I want to own a boat I have to be able to get out on the water. Just need some peace of mind so I can head out far from shore and not worry about my boat letting me down.

No, I didn't know that BOAT stood for that. lol

Any guesstimate on what a complete exhaust replacement would cost?

Thanks,

MZ

 

[Don S]

Re: Another Case of Chocolate Milk Oil

I would say you have a cracked block, even if you can't see it.
There is no way that much water is going to get into the engine thru the manifolds while it's running.
When you shut it off, some water might leak into a cylinder and leak past the rings, but not a few quarts, if it did, you don't have rings, or there is a hole in a piston.
When the engine is running, exhaust is pushing the water out the back of the boat, but the raw water pump is forcing water into the block and from the cracked block into the oil pan.
Your starting problem probably comes from collapsed lifters after running with overfilled crankcase and the oil/water mixture is being areated.

 

[zollman1]

Re: Another Case of Chocolate Milk Oil

Don S,

What would I have to do to prove your theory? Is there a way to pressure test the block without the intake manifold and heads being on the motor?

Thanks for your valuable responses.

MZ

 

[whywhyzed]

Re: Another Case of Chocolate Milk Oil

With the heads on - you take the hose coming from the outdrive w/p, and you put air in there under pressure (i.e. air now feeding the T-stat hsg.instead of water)- You'll have to disconnect the water cooling lines to the manifolds and plug them with a big bolt (or dowel) and a clamp.
Then pressurize to around 5 to 10 psi - you'll hear hissing.
Without heads - no way to pressure test

 

[Bondo]

Re: Another Case of Chocolate Milk Oil

Without heads - no way to pressure test

Unless you made a block of Wood,+ gasketed it, in Place of the Heads.......

Then you could add the Air thru the circulating water pump's Big Hose.......

The Block has to be Drained of Water for the Air Test to work......

 

[Don S]

Re: Another Case of Chocolate Milk Oil

With heads and intake off, you would have to plug all the holes in block where the heads attach. That or buy a set of head and intake gaskets, clean it up like you were going to use it. Put the heads and intake back on and do a pressure test. If it passes, you don't have to worry about the engine, if it leaks, well, you are only out the price of the gaskets. Not manifolds and risers, then find out you have to change the block.

 

[zollman1]

Re: Another Case of Chocolate Milk Oil

Just finished getting all of oil out. It had about 6-7 quarts of chocolate milk.

Is it OK to let the the motor sit without any oil until I get a chance to put it all back together and do the oil change process? Or should I go ahead change the filter and put the next round of oil in there?

 

[Coors]

Re: Another Case of Chocolate Milk Oil

after 2 changes, 6 to 7 qts? Cracked block.

 

[superpop]

Re: Another Case of Chocolate Milk Oil

Do you get any freezing temps in the winter were you are. With only seven hours since you have owned it I would suspect that the boat may have had a problem before you purchased. How reputable was the dealer you bought it from. There is a reason you only paid 7K for a boat that is worth 12K per NADA. If it is really worth 12K then I suppose you could put another 3-4K into it for a new motor and exhaust. Unless you have a garage were you can do the work yourself then it would probably be cheaper just to replace with a new long block. If you are paying someone to do the work then it will be very expensive and frustrating to put it all back together and still have a problem with the block. If you are doing Exhaust as well you could for a few hundred bucks more jump up to a small block V8 and reuse most of the other parts. That is if it will fit in the bilge. Could be a sweet upgrade though.

 

[zollman1]

Re: Another Case of Chocolate Milk Oil

Superprop,

Down here in Florida it will freeze a couple times here and there during the winter but nothing sustained for long periods of time. Could just an overnight freeze or a couple of nights cause a block to crack?

I want to pressure test the block to confirm it is in fact cracked... If it is, and knowing I need exhaust too. I might as well get a new motor and the whole deal...

Found this on ebay, this would work I would imagine. To try and get a rebuilt motor plus new exhaust I would be looking at $3000. Why not pay another $1K and get this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-...5947660QQihZ004QQcategoryZ50442QQcmdZViewItem

Regarding the V8 upgrade, does everything pretty much match up without much reconfiguration?

 

[superpop]

Re: Another Case of Chocolate Milk Oil

It does not take much below 32F to crack a block with water in it. Even for a few hours. If you are going to replace the whole unit, the ebay deal seems like a pretty good deal if you can get it and install it for under 5K. How long do you plan on keeping the boat and what kind of condition is the drive in. You do not want to put a new motor in and then blow up the drive. If the motor was neglected by the previous owner than the drive was probably not serviced regularly either. Once you go down the new motor path you are committed to the boat because you will not get your money back out of it any time soon if you want to sell it. Also how is the condition of the rest of the boat. All questions to ask before sinking another 5K into it.

 

[zollman1]

Re: Another Case of Chocolate Milk Oil

Update:

I told my Uncle and my mechanic buddy about the consensus on this board about my problem being a cracked block b/c I was considering throwing in the towel on the boat and cutting my losses. However, both are not so quick to hang it up just yet....

Since my uncle already has the intake manifold and heads at his machine shop, he is going to take the heads apart, magnaflux them, clean them, etc. and look for signs that may point to my water issues.

Also, my mechanic buddy is pretty convinced that this motor cannot be cracked since the boat is and has been a central florida boat its whole life. He said he can see no signs of this motor ever being overheated to any degree, and argues that if the boat had seen freezing conditions down here in Florida then the freeze plugs should have done their job.

He reminded me about his finding around the port side water jacket of the intake manifold gaskets had been smashed sown at the top and didn't seal well at the bottom, and that could also be a source of the amount of water that I am seeing in the crankcase.

So as of right now the prognosis is a combination of issues which include the intake manifold leak, possible head gasket leak, and the bad one piece bat wing intake manifolds.

Once I get the motor back together I'm am going to pressure test to rule out the crack.

Do any of you think we are on the right track?

Can I run the motor at idle without exhaust manifolds to see if the motor fills back up with water after I get it back together?

The reason I ask is b/c I don't want to buy new exhaust until I am certain the cracked block is ruled out, and I don't want to hook up the old manifolds at all even for a quick test.

 

[stevieray]

Re: Another Case of Chocolate Milk Oil

See this thread for a discussion on "freeze" plugs:

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=192525

 

[zollman1]

Re: Another Case of Chocolate Milk Oil

Status Update\Conclusion:

Well fellas after everything was said and done, it ended up NOT being a cracked block! Woo hoo!

I replaced the One Piece Exhaust Manifolds w/ the two piece using the kit from Mercruiser.

Had my heads magnaflux tested at a machine shop

All new gaskets, plugs, etc.

Put it all back together today, and ran it for an hour on the muffs with no new water intrusion! Only took 2 oil changes to get out the milk.

The oil looks like honey now!

Taking it out for a test run tomorrow after work.

Thanks for everyones input.

MZ