The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

[RubberFrog]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

JB got me, however thats like the 5th time I used that analogy aint it great.

yeah, it's great that you admitted you were a liar only after JB proved you were.

I guess we all see how credible you are now.

 

[JB]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

I made no claim like that, PW2.

I claimed that it connected Saddam to terrorists, not to 9/11, and I believe that we have set out to eliminate terrorists and those who shelter or support them.

Please stop accusing me of being a lock-step radical conservative on all issues. I am not. I hold many liberal and moderate views. . . even agree with you once in a while. :%

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

Very interesting, he finally admits he was making stuff up when the moderator called him on it. Thanks, JB.

We gave Saddam the weapons because he was at war with....hold your horses.....IRAN!! Yep, he was the lesser of two evils. The Iran hostage crisis was still fresh in our minds, so we were willing to help anybody fight Iran. That's why we gave him the weapons, bolthole.

It's a well known fact that Clinton sold the Chinese the technology to make the missile that shot down the satallite last week. You were awfully quiet on that one rod. Read this article, although I know you won't, because unlike you, I can post facts and back them up. LOL Not make stuff up and get called on it by the moderator. God that was funny.....

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/1/14/143258.shtml

I know you won't read the article, so I'll post a quote from it right here for ya....

You better pray China calms down or I'll be on you like flies on shyt asking about your buddy.

You can also read this article, which is MUCH more daming.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/9/29/25139.shtml

A quote from it:

Newly declassified documents show that President Bill Clinton personally approved the transfer to China of advanced space technology that can be used for nuclear combat.

The documents show that in 1996 Clinton approved the export of radiation hardened chip sets to China. The specialized chips are necessary for fighting a nuclear war.


Chinese Army Gets U.S. Missile Technology for Money

A newly released document from the U.S. State Department reveals that the most successful Chinese espionage operation in recent history occurred during the Clinton administration.

The document accuses Hughes Space and Communications Company of violating U.S. national security 123 times by knowingly sending detailed missile and space technology directly to the Chinese army.

Hey Water, That li'l nuget was a real gem! I knew about Clinton's largest contributer fixin' the vibration problem on launch missiles for the ChiComs, and arrangin' for a shipment o' machine tools to build their weopons, but this is really outreagous. I wonder what ol' Hill will sell if the Libs and Dems get her elected? We got real problems in this country folks! JR

 

[POINTER94]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

Espionage? Heck that was just sharing a little information between friends of like mind...

 

[crunch]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

Quote Treedancer:

The Iranians will fight, there not going to run, if anybody thinks that there nuts. They have half a million regular army, 120,000 Revolutionary Guards, 45,000 border troops, an air force, - and they have a militia estimated to be at least one million men, if not six million.

Now let's look at that, what are they going to fight with?

Tank Type Count Manufacturer

M-47/48 150 U.S. (*)
M-60A1 150-160 U.S. (*)
Chieftain Mark 3/5s100 U.K. (*)
T-54/55 250 Russia/Soviet
T-59 150-250 (35-?) Russia/Soviet
T-72/S 480 Russia/Soviet
T-69II 150-250 ? Russia/Soviet
Zulfiqar 100 Iranian made from T-72 and M48 pieces

Total Estimate
1600

* delivered prior to the fall of the Shah of Iran in 1979

Anyone see anything that can even scratch the paint on an Abrams?

Aircraft Made in Count Mission Comments


F-14 U.S. 50 Air Defense Poorly maintained, Little/no AAM, gun only
MiG-29 Russia 6 Air Defense Highly capable, heavy maintenance costs, fuel hungry
F-7M China 35 Air Defense Fairly modern and capable
F-4D/E U.S. 260 Attack/Defense Very poorly maintained, parts not available
to Iran some in ME market
F-5E/FII U.S. 260 Attack/Defense Very poorly maintained,
parts not available from U.S., some in ME market
Su-24 Soviet 30 Attack Some parts purchases with Russia have taken place, these may be the best maintained of all Iranian aircraft
Su-25K Soviet 7 Attack Seized during Gulf War (Iraq inexplictedly flew them out) May be operational but doubtful
Mir F-1 France 24 Attack/Defense Seized during Gulf War (Iraq inexplictedly flew them out) May be operational but doubtful

So even if we were dumb enough to put boots on the ground, what are they going to fight us with? Their million man army would be like moths in a flamethrower.... they too would be surrendering to journalists. (hint: if you don't know what I'm talking about, google their planes and tanks.)

 

[crunch]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

Quote Treedancer:

Still he had these two Generals fired, General John Abizaid, Gen. George Casey.

Gen. George Casey was fired right up to become the Chief of Staff of the United States Army.

Gen. John Abizaid retired..... Get the facts straight.

 

[Plainsman]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

Quote Treedancer:

Still he had these two Generals fired, General John Abizaid, Gen. George Casey.

Gen. George Casey was fired right up to become the Chief of Staff of the United States Army.

Gen. John Abizaid retired..... Get the facts straight.

Now cruch, we all know that as soon as facts are pointed out, they will not see them as facts, but make up lies to suit thier agenda.

However, it fun to play with them to see how far they will go with the lies. Kind of like catching bluegill, nothing to them, but fun to catch d

 

[crunch]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

I don't look at it as lies from the posters here, except maybe rod.... it's more like they only listen to the "Lib media" instead of doing just a little bit of research on their own, a combination of laziness and being too comfortable in their own view.

 

[treedancer]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

Your right crunch those were mostly obsolete but don’t forget about the ones that were flown into Iran during desert storm, here is a little update for you.

Iran's original seven Su-25K/UBKs were flown to Iran from Iraq in 1991 as the multinational Operation 'Desert Storm' force gathered on Iraq's southern border in response to Iraq's invasion of Kuwait.

In July 2003 Chengdu Aircraft Industrial Corporation (CAIC) unveiled the new ‘Super-7’ or Chao Qi fighter plane to the public. The new Super-7 is “an all-purpose light fighter, required to have all-weather operation capabilities, be capable of performing the dual tasks of dogfight and air-to-ground attack, and have the ability to launch medium-range missiles. Mass production of the fighter will not begin until two and a half years of research are completed.

The plane is being produced to be sold abroad to developing nations. China already has received orders from Iran and some African countries. (Hhmm, that was in 2003 wonder how many have been shipped)

There have been reports of some 10 F-8Ms "Finback", 7 Tu-22Ms, 19 MIG-27s, and several MIG-31s (Russia's most modern fighter aircraft, US$40 million ) being present in Iran, but these are not confirmed.

Another little tid bit.

Russia has completed Tor-M1 deliveries to Iran, Russian Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov announced on 16 January, writes Keri Smith. A contract to supply 29 ...
19-Jan-2007

The principal advantages of Tor-M1 is its ability to simultaneously destroy two targets in any weather or at any time of day and night; the use of both the powerful and jamming-resistant radar with electronic beam control and vertically launched missiles able to maintain high speed and manoeuvrability inside an entire engagement envelope;

The TOR-M1 surface-to-air missile system is a mobile, integrated air defense system, designed for operation at medium-, low- and very low –altitudes, against fixed/rotary wing aircraft, UAVs, guided missiles and precision weapon.
Quote crunch
(hint: if you don't know what I'm talking about, google their planes and tanks

Might google a bit deeper next time. Heres a few links if you want to know where to look.

http://jmr.janes.com/public/jmr/index.shtml
http://www.janes.com/defence/air_forces/ne...60913_1_n.shtml

http://jmr.janes.com/public/jmr/index.shtml

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iran/airforce.htm

http://www.defense-update.com/products/t/tor.htm

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/sa-15.htm

And your right crunch, I don't put anything up that I cant back up.Not going to lie in spite of what others try to Insinuate.

 

[Plainsman]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

Don, first 3 links are nothing, 4th one puts anti President Bush popups, Then a site about Tor M1 9M330 Air Defense System and then back to the anti President Bush popups.

So you have backed up what point?

 

[crunch]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

So the Ground forces would be Meat and you admit we would have air superiority within hours?

Now to the Russian air defense systems they bought.... do you really think they are better than what Iraq put up in GW 1? Compared from then to now? Sheesh, When have the Russians ever done anything right?

Tree, I know you are smarter than this. You know as well as I do that Iran is less than a paper tiger.... they are a loud mouthed sitting duck that if we let go, will unite all of the Islamic factions into a war to really end all wars.... look at the numbers.

If we were going to fight them "sword on sword, shield on shield" we would lose... That, I'm sure would NOT be the plan.

Think about it realistically, not from a "lib vs Dem" perspective. Think about it from an "I want to live my life without being killed by nuts" frame of mind.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

What would they gain by nuking us?

I don't know, what would be gained by driving airliners into tall buildings?

They have at best, access to a few nukes once fully operational.

I wonder how those who live in these "lottery" cities would feel about a few pesky nukes. Unless of course

you live in Isreal, (you know, our ally) they could be pretty much wiped out.

Fanatic leadership or not, they must know they'd all die. You don't bet a pair of deuces when you know the dealer has a fistfull of aces and a fully loaded gun to the head of the loser.

Whether you strap on a bomb suit and walk into a school yard, or drop a nuke you still die. What is stopping these whackjobs from killing children, women, old men and other innocents?

This is what we are to base our families safety on. The thought that celebrated suicide bombers would die and leave radioactive bones vs. just burned remains?

 

[Plainsman]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

Quote Pointer:
"What is stopping these whackjobs from killing children, women, old men and other innocents?"

I can't answer that except to say that they know we will bend over backwards not to do it. If we fought the war like it should be fought, it would be over by now. I am afraid we are to PC to win a war like it needs to be done.

 

[crunch]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

The "can't we all just get along" crowd will never get it... even as we didn't all just get along during the "Rodney King" riots.

The wimps of this world will always plead for peace as the killer beats them to death.... oh, please...... please... don't rape my wife, don't kill my children... I thought we were talking here.....I'm on your side...Ughfff

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

crunch :}

 

[crunch]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

Hey Jtexas, here's another sig for you...

Being an apoligist only improves the gene pool.

 

[crunch]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

crunch :}

Bugle butt. :}

 

[treedancer]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

Quote crunch

Think about it realistically, not from a "lib vs Dem" perspective. Think about it from an "I want to live my life without being killed by nuts" frame of mind.

As a mater of fact I think what the President is doing “at the present time is good” moving in battle groups is putting a lot of pressure on Iran. It could also backfire, hope not, but the possibly is there for a mistake from either side. As for Iran being a paper tiger, I don’t think they are quite the paper tiger that Iraq was, no doubt we could beat them, it would be costly but we would win.

Some of the cost would be alienating the majority of Iranians against us in there own country that is friendly towards us in spite of their nutty leadership. If we go I their willy nilly bombing we will have enemy’s for the next fifty years at least.

Seems that there is some problems with the links that I provided. I tried them and they all worked with the exception of link number two. Cant help the pop-ups, would suggest getting a pop-up blocker. Anybody that thinks Jane’s is some kind of left wing nut case better do some home work.

By the way crunch how’s that old man that got mauled by the mountain lion in Eureka while he was hiking? Last I heard he had some kind of infection and was in serious condition.

 

[Plainsman]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

Quote tree:
"it would be costly but we would win."

Do you feel the same about Iraq tree? I mean if you think we could win in a war that hasn't happened, what about the one we are in now?

 

[crunch]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

By the way crunch how’s that old man that got mauled by the mountain lion in Eureka while he was hiking? Last I heard he had some kind of infection and was in serious condition.

No idea, last I heard was when his wife beat the Lion off with a stick... I assume your point is the infection we would get from the lion?


That is, at best, a poor "strawman" argument.

Let's try this.... you have an infection... a sore tooth that is starting to smell and you are noticing other signs... heart palpitations, "milky" urine, heavy sweating w/ normal activity, and lots of pain in your tooth and gum...

What is your diagnosis Doctor?... and what will provide relief?