The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

[Plainsman]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

I disagree Don. I don't agree with the way the war in Iraq has been run. And I don't agree with everything domestic that the President has done, i.e. illegal immigration...so please don't put in with the likes of rodbolt..I AM able to take the blinders off if it is needed unlike some who's hatred is always blinded.

 

[treedancer]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

I’ve been trying to stay out of this thread but here my two cents worth. I'm not adverse to taking out Iran’s nuclear capabilities, and im sure our leadership in the military have much more info then me , here is what I came up with, have a look, have some comments rather that rhetoric lets here it.

The possibility of war against Iran presents a problem of far more complexity than the bombing and occupation of Iraq. And Iraq has proved complicated enough. Our military at present depends almost exclusively on a single supply line that runs south through Shi'ite-dominated southern Iraq into Kuwait. If that linkage were cut, US forces would not have enough fuel to defend themselves ,or get out of the country. Simply put, a move on Iran could render 140,000 troops hostage in the desert.

Al-Sadr's Mehdi Army, which has clashed on and off with coalition forces, and the Badr Organization, the paramilitary wing of the Shi'ite Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI), could mobilize and turn supply roads into a "shooting gallery" 400-800 miles long.

We have no field army in Iraq; necessarily, our forces are all over the place, dealing with insurgents. They would be hard pressed to assemble quickly to meet a regular force, especially if fuel was running short.

Those that contend that US air power would destroy exposed Iranian armored divisions a spoiler might come in the form of a desert sandstorm. Like the Germans in the "Battle of the Bulge" [the Iranians] could wait until the weather promised a few days of protection. After that, they would be so close to our own forces that air power could not attack them without danger of hitting friendlies.

Alternative ground supply lines through Jordan or Turkey could meet resistance from Ankara, or Sunni insurgents in al-Anbar province, which must be traversed to reach Jordan. Another weak point in the current supply line is that in Kuwait, they are replenished by a steady stream of goods shipped through the Iran-controlled Strait of Hormuz.

According to retired US Army General Barry McCaffrey recently said on Hardball We'd be in a crisis mode within a week of the first air strike .He went on to call the idea of using conventional air power to knock out Iranian nuclear facilities "preposterous".

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

According to retired US Army General Barry McCaffrey recently said on Hardball We'd be in a crisis mode within a week of the first air strike .He went on to call the idea of using conventional air power to knock out Iranian nuclear facilities "preposterous".

We'd be in crisis mode within seconds of a nuclear blast in a major city.

Ok, we'll use small tactical nukes to take out Irans nuke facilities then. Works for me.

Next issue.....?


Retired military guys love to spout their two cents. And people love to listen to them. I will only listen to current generals, etc when it comes to forming an opinion on why we should or shouldn't do something. Most just want a clear and defined goal, and I can't blame them. It's time for Bush to step up and explain what the clear goal is.

We can redeploy our forces in 48 hours from Iraq to the Iran border if necessary. Trust me, we have the ability to move mountains if we need to. Just look at WW2. We didn't have much infastructure for wartime, we transformed our entire nation into a nation for war. That was beautiful. A time where the entire nation stood behind our military and did their part. We didn't care if someone had attacked us directly. We helped our allies in the war effort. We attacked Japan, but we also went to war with Germany, who made no direct attack on the US homeland. The entire country stood behind that theatre as well.

Then we had the birth of the democratic party....

 

[Plainsman]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

"Then we had the birth of the democratic party.... "

To bad we didn't have roe v. wade then.

 

[JB]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

Suppose Iran did manage to develop a deliverable nuclear device?

The Soviet Union had them, and thermonuclear devices as well. They could have delivered them anywhere on earth.

Why didn't the USSR ever use one. . . on Afghanistan, USA, or anyone else?

Because their lands would have become uninhabitable wastelands very quickly.

Reminds me of a scene from "Raiders of the lost ark". Indy is fighting and whipping all these baddies until a giant with a huge sword appears and threatens to chop up our hero. Indy just. .. .
>

>

>

>

shoots him.

We didn't do anything to prevent China, France, India or Pakistan from developing and testing nukes and most believe that Israel has them. . .supplied by us.

Yes, Iran has a loudmouth braggart threatening everybody in sight. I don't think he is stupid enough to sacrifice his whole country just to take one shot at Israel with a nuke that might or might not get through.

If Iran has a weapon that threatens the world, it is oil, not nukes.

 

[PW2]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

For the life of me, I don't have a clue what the big danger is in talking to Iran. Or any other group that may or may not be hostile. You may be able to shape the message to the Iranian people better than they are likely do themselves...

"Keep your friends close, and you enemies closer"

Unless there is some sort of Messianic thing going on that feels we need to conquer and control the world.

 

[treedancer]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!


Then we had the birth of the democratic party.... "

To bad we didn't have roe v. wade then.

????

 

[POINTER94]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

Hmmm, a dialogue. Awesome!! I have to wonder when Hillary had her last "dialogue" with Bill? And what exactly was the benefit?

Communication = Good d

Note, talking solves very little, listening does.

 

[Plainsman]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!


"Keep your friends close, and you enemies closer"

And the whole time we're talking with them, they continue with whatever evil it is they're doing, look at n korea. Iran has now stopped UN inspectors from doing their job. Where is your outrage against that? Oh that's right, we have to talk and play nice. If both sides did that, it would be worth it, but that won't happen.

Didn't we do that with saddam and Afghanistan ? But then all we hear from the left is "Well aren't we the ones who armed them in the first place? Why did we do that? It's all our fault that they have weapons. It's our fault that n korea has a nuke"

Hypocrites, that one word says it all about the left.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

Plainsman, They communicated that they didn't want to communicate with the UN. Thats great!! 8)

By sending weapons to terrorists in Iraq, they are communicating.

Suggesting that Isreal be wiped off the face of the earth is communication.

Communication = Good d

 

[rodbolt]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

wow the amount of historical ignorance here is stiffiling.
especially the idiotic comment about the US attacking Germany in WWII. and it was our president,vice president and the secretary of defence that insisted for at least a year,a year after we went into afghanistan looking for a 6'6" guy with a dialysis machine,that saddam had WMD's even though the rest of the world knew he did not.
but with most the historical accuracy I see here in DC its about par for the course.
but I guess the traitors in WWII that started showing the war carnege should have been shot too according to waterinthefuel.

 

[treedancer]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

Quote waterinfuel

<<Ok, we'll use small tactical nukes to take out Irans nuke facilities then. Works for me.

Next issue.....?>>

The notion that this will remain some sort of surgical strike air war only is BS. It will quickly develop into a ground war as the Iranians retaliate against either or both Israel, and the United States. Iran will most likely fire missiles at Israel. If they so choose, they can also easily fire missiles into the Green Zone and US bases in Iraq - as they will be nicely mapped with GPS coordinates provided by Iranian, and Iraqi insurgent spies, long before this.

For those thinking that the US and Israel will take out Iranian missiles first, think back to 1991 to desert storm, it took us forever and a day to track down and knock out Saddam,s SCUDS-one would think that the Iranian missiles are a bit more advanced then Saddam,s. Also most likely will be better protected.

<<We can redeploy our forces in 48 hours from Iraq to the Iran border if necessary. Trust me, we have the ability to move mountains if we need to.>>

The Iranians will fight, there not going to run, if anybody thinks that there nuts. They have half a million regular army, 120,000 Revolutionary Guards, 45,000 border troops, an air force, - and they have a militia estimated to be at least one million men, if not six million.

<<Retired military guys love to spout their two cents. And people love to listen to them. I will only listen to current generals, etc when it comes to forming an opinion on why we should or shouldn't do something. Most just want a clear and defined goal, and I can't blame them. It's time for Bush to step up and explain what the clear goal is.>>

Quote President Bush="Where mistakes have been made, the responsibility rests with me," he told the nation.

Still he had these two Generals fired, General John Abizaid, Gen. George Casey. So where are you going to find any current Generals, that want to continue to be active duty Generals, to talk to? Your right, as for having a goal sure would be nice if it were attained.

 

[Plainsman]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

"The Iranians will fight, there not going to run, if anybody thinks that there nuts. They have half a million regular army, 120,000 Revolutionary Guards, 45,000 border troops, an air force, - and they have a militia estimated to be at least one million men, if not six million."

Hmmmm..seems I have that before about another country in the region...didn't pan out that way.

"Still he had these two Generals fired, General John Abizaid, Gen. George Casey. So where are you going to find any current Generals, that want to continue to be active duty Generals, to talk to? Your right, as for having a goal sure would be nice if it were attained. "

Seems he changed course and they were not getting the job done. The left has been screaming for "change the course", he does so and still gets heat from the left.

Those goals can stilll be obtained. Try to not have such a defeatest attitude and look at some of the positive things that have been accomplished. The glass IS half full, if you believe, half empty if your a defeatist. To some it will ALWAYS be half empty and I do pitty them.

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

For those thinking that the US and Israel will take out Iranian missiles first, think back to 1991 to desert storm, it took us forever and a day to track down and knock out Saddam,s SCUDS-one would think that the Iranian missiles are a bit more advanced then Saddam,s. Also most likely will be better protected.

We know exactly where Irans buildings are. If you go to Google earth you can see for yourself. Their locations are no secret.

You fail to recall that Israel did exactly that to Saddams nuclear facility in 1982 and no ground offensive or any other action was taken, except 20 years later we were thanking them.

Iran doesn't have missiles yet, they have that one they are testing, but lets say they do; if we take out their facilities they can keep their missiles because they have nothing to put on the tip.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

WITF, We are most definately not thanking them. They didn't open a "dialogue". They didn't ask permission of the UN. Heck they didn't even tell them they were coming. We don't have lots of video footage so the press wasn't notified.

They act as if they have a right to exist. :}

And then you actually portraying history correctly, well that just won't do. Less we forget, schoolyard bullies are really just cowards at heart.

 

[treedancer]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

Quote waterinfuil

Iran doesn't have missiles yet, they have that one they are testing, but lets say they do; if we take out their facilities they can keep their missiles because they have nothing to put on the tip.

I guess this Janes article is all wet then.

Iran unveils redesigned Shahab missile

Iran has enhanced the range of its Shahab 3 medium-range ballistic missile (MRBM) and a recent Shahab test appears to be of an early version of the expected Shahab 4, according to Uzi Rubin, the former director of Israel's Ballistic Missile Defence Organisation (BMDO).

Following analysis of footage of an 11 August Shahab test in Iran, Rubin claims the new Shahab design bears a significant resemblance to the Soviet-era SS-9 inter-continental ballistic missile (ICBM), now withdrawn from Russian service.



http://www.janes.com/aerospace/military/news/jdw/jdw040927_1_n.shtml

 

[JB]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

Talk about revisionist history: "even though the rest of the world knew he did not."

Fighting an imagined fire with more fire, rodbolt?

You are very good at inventing "facts" to support your fantasies, but that one doesn't have a hope of being arguable. Where did you "read" that one? Some radical muslim rag?

 

[PW2]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

Talk about revisionist history: "even though the rest of the world knew he did not."

Fighting an imagined fire with more fire, rodbolt?

You are very good at inventing "facts" to support your fantasies, but that one doesn't have a hope of being arguable. Where did you "read" that one? Some radical muslim rag?

Well, JB, We are finding out in the Scooter Libby trial that we knew there was no Iraqi nuclear threat (If there was any doubt before)

We knew, or should have known, there was no Iraqi connection to 9/11.

There may have been conventional WMD's, but we knew the Iraqis had no delivery system to threaten us, so we knew there was no threat to the US...

And we were told that taking out Saddam would be cheap and easy--when Larry Lindsay offered it could cost us as much as 200 billion dollars, he was promptly fired...

And now we are being told that taking out Iran, and their nukes, not only is the only option, but it also would be easy...

Now pardon me for being just a touch skeptical, as nothing yet from these bellicose neo-cons have proven to be accurate. Perhaps they have the law of averages on their side, and they have to be correct on something at some point in time, but I remain unconvinced.

 

[JB]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

Sounds like a "YABUT" to me, PW2.

As in, "Yabut just because that is myth doesn't mean these others are myths, too."

Right on, PW2, but it doesn't mean those others are not left created fantasy, either.

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: The time has come...bomb Iran's nuke facilities!

Suppose Iran did manage to develop a deliverable nuclear device?

The Soviet Union had them, and thermonuclear devices as well. They could have delivered them anywhere on earth.

Why didn't the USSR ever use one. . . on Afghanistan, USA, or anyone else?

Because their lands would have become uninhabitable wastelands very quickly.

Reminds me of a scene from "Raiders of the lost ark". Indy is fighting and whipping all these baddies until a giant with a huge sword appears and threatens to chop up our hero. Indy just. .. .
>

>

>

>

shoots him.

We didn't do anything to prevent China, France, India or Pakistan from developing and testing nukes and most believe that Israel has them. . .supplied by us.

Yes, Iran has a loudmouth braggart threatening everybody in sight. I don't think he is stupid enough to sacrifice his whole country just to take one shot at Israel with a nuke that might or might not get through.

If Iran has a weapon that threatens the world, it is oil, not nukes.

Hey JB, I generally agree with your posts, but the part in bold seems a stretch of the known facts as I see them. History is fairly clear that: we should pay attention to our enemy's often stated intentions. Iran's President has made it very clear that he views both himself (and his country) as a 'catalyst' for the Shia end times philosophy referred to in the West as: "the twelth Imam", (the guy who went down a well near Tehran 1300 years back + or - and pops back out when the world is to be judged by Allah). As Crunch has accurately stated: Iran is controlled by a Theocracy, and they would not allow the President to state the end times stuff if it was not their official policy. The Iranian wackjob has even lectured President Bush about the Christian end times comming together with his philosophy in an open letter. It is possible this is just a terrifying bluff, and any President will get pounded for taking any rational move against such a threat, (even ol' 'Hanoi Jane' was poundin' Bush this weekend, which must make all the Libs here and abroad real proud). Persians are very different then Arabs, (and much tougher), just ask ol' Sadam. They have a proud history that goes back thousands of years. The Soviets were quite rational, they worshiped their Government system similar to Libs here and the Libs in the rest of Europe, and the consequeces of an attack on us was very clear thanks to both Republican and Democrat Presidents, (maybe not Jimmy Carter). The Iranians seem to be another 'kettle o' fish', but maybe I'm just readin' too much. Respectfully JR