Weight Limit Maxxed out! How to keep increasing wake size...

[FLWakeRider]

I have been reading these forums for the majority of the day now.
Now, I am VERY new to the site (Just registered today), and looking for a truly educated response to my questions (I feel like I should get it easily here).
As I read in a post before, boats all have "fingerprints" (Every Boat is different). And, I have yet to truly have someone ask the same questions I am looking into, with the same scenario as myself.

I am simply looking to increase wake size without adding weight (I am a intermediate wakeboarder with a novice boat/bank account).
I have a 16.5' Glassport Bowrider w/ a Merc Cruiser 3.0L I/O. I like to call myself a novice at boat structure and marine motors.
My max weight limit is 900 lbs. (Or so it says). So, fat sacks or ten friends is simply out of the question. After me, three other people, and gear; we are pushing 750 lbs. (easily).
Right now, I know BIG AIR is out of the question (My cousin has a '06 Malibu Wakesetter that I ride behind sometimes. HUGE DIFFERENCE!), but I still feel like my boat could have a lot more potential.
I have been trying to do as much research as possible (Even looked in the fact that Water Depth plays a role in wake formation, and changed my passes to be slightly deeper in the lake {10-12ft.})

I have no problem at all planing the boat to get riders up.
Keeping speed is simple enough (I ride around 18-22 MPH).
But, the wake size is just not the best (Or even great).

(1) Would the Smart Tabs help in this situation? I understand they help the boat plane better. But, in theory couldn't I trim up while in motion to push the bow down futher in the water (thus creating the bigger wake)?
(2) And, second, would the Smart Tabs (Not the Smart Tabs II) system work for me, since they are auto adjusting?
(3) If that is illogical, suggestions?

I guess I really don't know where to go with these questions.
Or, if these are even the right questions to ask.
I was looking in all of the different sections of this site.

Basically, wakeboarding is a very expensive hobby, and I have a very "cheap" wife when it comes to boats and toys, so I am looking for the best alternative to a new boat.

 

[craze1cars]

Re: Weight Limit Maxxed out! How to keep increasing wake size...

Make sure you have max weight on board, and try putting ALL your weight to the bow (BOTH of your spotters, a heavy cooler, anchor, etc).

You might be very surprised how putting all weight in the bow improves your wake. This is conter-intuitive, but it works very well for the two small I/O's I use for boarding. With some experimentation, I was surprised to learn that making the back of the boat plow deep (trimming up like you said) usually makes for a lousy wake that washes out compared to having the bow dig deep....which creates a nice smooth roller and an excellent ramp...less strain on the drivetrain as well.

And it sounds to me like you have the capacity to handle a 150 pound fat sac. So try that....again up front. Or maybe fill a couple big coolers with water and weigh them to approach your 150 pound excess capacity for a temporary attempt, before making the investment in a proper sac.

 

[FLWakeRider]

Re: Weight Limit Maxxed out! How to keep increasing wake size...

Thanx for the quick reply. I will try looking into it.

I knew I had some weight missing (I was counting myself when riding, even though I am in the water).

Basically, my usual riding crew is myself (Can't count my weight since I am being pulled by the boat), a good friend of mine (185 lbs.), My wife (150 lbs.), and his wife (130 lbs.)....

My wife drives the boat (putting 150 in the center starboard of the boat). He usually sits Port stern, His wife usually sits Starboard stern. Giving 185 on the Port side and 280 on the Starboard side.
If I get the following setup...
Launch Pad Link 540 Single Uber Pump Combo

Then I can re-adjust him on the Starboard side behind my wife (335 lbs starboard stern). And, then Fat Sac on the Port Stern with the same essential weight. Finally, putting my friend's wife up in the Center of the Bow, helping the boat plane out a bit. Does that sound slightly logical?

Trying to make sure I am reading this properly.
I still feel like I am short some weight. Well, I guess not. That is essentailly 850 Lbs. between all that. I guess, I could get one of the 100 lb bags and place it right against the Engine cover.

 

[Liquid_force]

Re: Weight Limit Maxxed out! How to keep increasing wake size...

I only read the title and the boat size -
It's time to face reality. You're not going to get any real wake to speak of from a 16.5' (1500 lb?) boat. There are way to many laws of physics working against you.
I've boarded behind a jet ski, a 16' glassmaster OB, a 18' Maxum, a 19.5' Sunbird, a 20' regal, a Moomba Mobius, a Tige 21V.
Big boats have big wakes, little boats have little wakes. That's just how it works.
"Wake boats" have beautiful, huge, wide, rampy, 'give you wings' kind of wakes.

 

[FLWakeRider]

Re: Weight Limit Maxxed out! How to keep increasing wake size...

Well, I knew I wasn't going to produce the same kind of wake that a Tige or Moomba would, but I was just asking what that best way to maximize performance with what I have available.
Everything I stated in my original post said this...
So, yeah... Thanx for replying before reading the whole post

 

[Liquid_force]

Re: Weight Limit Maxxed out! How to keep increasing wake size...

I meant no offense.
The point was I didn't need to know all the gobbly gook to know the answer. Three or four friends on board will give you about all the wake you're going to get. Beyond that you can spend all the time and energy you want for an insignificant, if any improvement.
I had a similar experience with our old 16' Glassmaster/Evinrude OB. There came a point (and in hindsight that point was very early in the experimentation) that beyond the rider and 3 adults on board there just wasn't much wake enhancement to be done. But I did learn a tantrum with just a 3' ski pole

My advice would be start saving, and bumming rides on the wakesetter whenever you can. A decent 20 footer will make a world of difference and older ones that have been taken care of aren't that expensive.

 

[FLWakeRider]

Re: Weight Limit Maxxed out! How to keep increasing wake size...

Here are a few pics of a boat the same hull as mine.

This guys is the full 17' boat (My registartion reads 17' but I measured otherwise) with the 3.8L instead of the 3.0.
But, its the same exact boat otherwise.

This is a pitcure of his wake with 600 lbs. ballast and 850 lbs. in people.

My wake has never looked anything like that, and now that I know this guy weighted his down so much, I will do some weight testing to see if I can't get a little more out of it.
Also, states on wakeboarder.com that he simply has to ride at a shorter length.
So, its just another thing that I also need to look into.

I haven't had this boat long (Only put about 30 hours on this past summer), so I still have quite a bit of testing to keep doing. Was just noticing some major issues from the get go.

 

[FLWakeRider]

Re: Weight Limit Maxxed out! How to keep increasing wake size...

Also...
I know you have a little more experience behind various boats then me.
And all of your comments are helping (Althought not extremely tactful).
And yeah, I probably would be spending a lot of wasted money on getting extreme modifications for this boat.
I have been looking at others, but getting my wife to let me put up $10k for a decent boat....
Umm... thats a funny joke...

 

[Liquid_force]

Re: Weight Limit Maxxed out! How to keep increasing wake size...

we spent 3800 on our '89 19.5' 4.3L -- that was in '03.
It was essentially lake ready. We recovered some seats and put in some new carpet.

 

[FLWakeRider]

Re: Weight Limit Maxxed out! How to keep increasing wake size...

You know what really grinds my gears...
I looked for probably 2-3 weeks for boats Found nothing in my price range (Within 100 miles of my house). I broadened the search to 250 miles and this one fell in my lap.

1984 Correct Craft Ski Nautique AIR
I already want to drool a little.
Going to inquire more about later on today by E-mailing the seller.
It about 3-1/2hr drive from my house, so looks like I might not go out on the lake this weekend.

Guy wants $3,000 for it.
Specs right now look like this..

• Built in 425 lb ballast tank in the rear
• Tower mount spotter mirror
• Perfect Pass system (ver 6.5ng)
• Powered by a Ford 351 HO
• PCM reduction tranny brand new in 2003
• 2 pairs of board racks
• Built in bimini

So far looks like a good buy. Time to start begging the wife.

 

[Hogger]

Re: Weight Limit Maxxed out! How to keep increasing wake size...

Just check REALLY close on the tower mount. Make sure there is sufficient bracing inside the hull, and check for cracks on the surface.

I am new to this wakeboarding gig, but got to thinking if a wedge might help with your wake?

 

[FLWakeRider]

Re: Weight Limit Maxxed out! How to keep increasing wake size...

As far as I knowm only the Malibu and one other boat come factory with Wedges. I read somewhere that puts extrememe strain on the bow of the boat and really could cause problems down the road if the boat was not originally designed for it.
I guess that is one the main reasons I have vered from that option. Everyone talks great about them, but I haven't to many people attempting to install them on the average boat.

 

[sickwilly]

Re: Weight Limit Maxxed out! How to keep increasing wake size...

Keep a watch on that boat for sale -- looks very much like a couple I have seen around here. You get into the process and they want you to wire money and then they arrange shipping, etc. It's a scam. Don't fall for it. Better yet send them an email and based on the response flag it so some other inexperienced boat buyer does not waste there $3000 bucks and end up land locked all boating season.

 

[FLWakeRider]

Re: Weight Limit Maxxed out! How to keep increasing wake size...

Well, the boat was available through boat trader.
The guy seemed really nice so far.
I have been back and forth a few times already with him and he has sent me more pictures of the interior. He also lives like I said - 3-1/2 hrs away from me. So I was going to drive down and look at it (I doubt I would ever get a boat shipped, unless it was new).
Doubt I will be able to come up the finances right now anyways...
(Once again.... The woman has a hold on the money purse)

Also, Sickwilly...
I see you have a hydrofoil on your Stingray.
Do you use the boat for much wakeboarding?
I have still been so up and down about trying to get one.
I hear it would benefit the boat in the same manner as the smart tabs, but no one has really clarified if they can in fact help the boat produce a better wake.

 

[sickwilly]

Re: Weight Limit Maxxed out! How to keep increasing wake size...

Good, then it seems legit. There have been lots of scam posts on our craigslist, and boatsville had some crap ones when I was looking too.

The foil helps my boat hold plane at low speed (wakeboard speeds). With the foil and a 20 pitch 4 blade prop I can hold plane at 13 MPH, and the wife gives me a better tow on the wakeboard -- speed is more constant. I don't think it does anything for the size of my wake though.

 

[Hogger]

Re: Weight Limit Maxxed out! How to keep increasing wake size...

Talk about scams. When we were looking for our boat, I found one that was a great deal. So the guy emails me back and says the boat is in Germany, and he'll ship it for free... For a $5000 Speedster...

 

[FLWakeRider]

Re: Weight Limit Maxxed out! How to keep increasing wake size...

Yeah...
I am very sketchy abotu Craigslist anymore.
Bought a PC off of there...
Worked really great, lady said she owned a small business. Signed a warranty for it and everything. Got it home, couldn't get it to work (I went to school for computer programming). Come to find out all of the parts inside were just barely working when she had it and basically, all of the fans seized up and the motherboard was shot.
Vowed to never buy anything electronic off of there again.
Only stuff that you can 100% visually inspect for damages and reliability
------
Update on the Boat though...
Decided not to get the Air Nautique. I am going to take some more time to really push mine to the limit and see what I can get out of it. That is, once I get mine fixed.
After we made this decision yesterday, I went to go do a routine check on mine for this weekends ride.
The boat would not start!
I had a problem before with the primary wires going to the battery and to the starter coming loose from vibration. Checked the battery, it was fine. Checked the starter, primary wire was loose.
Tightened it up...
Broke the insulation on the ground wire...
FIRE ON THE BOAT...
So, yeah... Thats going to be a fun replacement.

 

[tommays]

Re: Weight Limit Maxxed out! How to keep increasing wake size...

While your wake is not GIANT i think you find that fine tuning the rope length and timing your POP when you hit the wake will get you a LOT more air


And you really really need to cut in hard and hit it with a lot of speed

 

[hbsurfdawg]

Re: Weight Limit Maxxed out! How to keep increasing wake size...

Well it looks like you might have hit the jackpot, I got a 1985 Sunbird with a 4.3 GL Cobra I/O, almost exact to yours, only I tore all the seats and stuff out of the boat and made it the way I wanted it.

Thinking that if I could weight it with Fat Sacs I would be in heaven. I am a surfer that grew up in OC and Hawaii and have been finding a way for a better thrill.

I have tried everywakeboard, wakesurfboard, and various Surftech wakesurf boards, and small surfboards to see if I can wake surf hands free, which is my goal and dream.

Ok, so back to Wakeboarding. All these guys are right but you really need some weight in the back and on one side in the middle with some sacs. I am a handy guy and I did some serious reading about what might work and talking to a guy named Mike at Fly High, and to Paul and Ronda Kenenealy at www.Waterskiworld.com. I get all my stuff there cause you just get old fashioned on the phone service with them. They are great.

Anyway, when considering the sacs I did not want to drop a pump over the side when it was 100 degrees out and the boat was full.

So, I went to Flyhigh and used their diagrams on how to layout the sacs and there is NOTHING on how to wire,what to buy, or really where to strategically place them. The Jabsco pump diagram and the wiring was incorrect and I found out why it was bad and rewired it and wrote a diagram on how not to make a mistake.

After some playing around I figured I would put one 200 lb in the back passenger side and one 200 lb up middle cab under the passenger seat area. Remember, I had the seats all reconfigured and put in a custom engine lid that make the boat super quiet.

I spent some time figuring out what size pipes I wanted and how I would mount switches on the dash. Do not do this without reading this and seeing all the step-by-step photos.

The bottom line is that it really made our wakeboarding experience better, but I could not get much out of the sacs as I thought I would, but it is definitely very cool.

I have now been having a hard time sleeping thinking about a manufactured wedge that I want my stainless steel manufacture friend Dave Hawley, at Railmakers.com to make me.

With the economy tight and one kid in college, and one coming, I have to suppress my dream of the Wakesetter LV 23.

It took me a while to find this video of the actual bottom of the boat and how the wedge works,...I got ideas ...See the Malibu

Here are photos of Wakeboarding and messing around with the new weight.
http://picasaweb.google.com/hbsurfdawg/LakeElsinore6142008#



http://picasaweb.google.com/hbsurfdawg/20081114LakeElsinoreLastDay#

The bottom line ... You can get a pretty good wake for wakeboarding and some wakesurfing, but nothing seems like it take the place of a specifically designed hull weight combo to make it happen. I have my eye on a Malibu.

I will keep you posted.

Boat





E

 

[typethree]

Re: Weight Limit Maxxed out! How to keep increasing wake size...

Thanks for the useful tips!