New trailer problems

[Ccfbailey]

I just purchased a Lund Rebel with a Shorelandr trailer with a swing tongue. Been having a grounding issue with this. There is NO ground secured on the frame. Not from the plug and not at any light. There is ground (white) going to each light. I'm guessing the mfg figures that the ball and hitch is a good enough ground. The dealer told me to rough up the hinge at the swing because of the paint acting as an insulator. It kinda worked. I'd like to ground the trailer properly. Since there is a white wire present at every light, can I splice into it and attach it to the frame? Should I do it at every light or would one spot be enough? Hard to believe a trailer is wired this way.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: New trailer problems

The white wire IS the ground!
If it White from the Hitch connector attaches to the white at each light; They are all grounded.

The other method that save a few feet of wire is to attach the White from the Hitch Connector to the frame; and then attach the the White from each light to the frame also.

There is no need to do both.

Why do you think you have a grounding issue?

 

[Mi duckdown]

Re: New trailer problems

The ball and hitch is never a good ground. if you bought it new from the dealer he is an *****hole.
need to have white wire from truck into to the white wire past the swing.

 

[Ccfbailey]

Re: New trailer problems

The white wire IS the ground!
If it White from the Hitch connector attaches to the white at each light; They are all grounded.

The other method that save a few feet of wire is to attach the White from the Hitch Connector to the frame; and then attach the the White from each light to the frame also.

There is no need to do both.

Why do you think you have a grounding issue?

Thanks for the reply
I'm aware the white is ground. What I'm confused about is that there is no white wire attached to the frame anywhere. Are the lights really grounded then?
I had a blinking and no light situation. Stuffed a temporary wire into the ground connecter and attached to the tongue.... Solid bright lights.
Was thinking the way to go would be to splice into white wire at taillights and attach to frame.

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: New trailer problems

Yes the white wire is the ground and no you shouldn't need to take the white wire to the frame, HOWEVER....

you need to find if the plug continues the white wire to the truck if it doesn't then there is your problem, run a wire and attach it to the frame on the truck, if you have a swing away you need to find where the ground wire is attached to the frame and continue it through to the plug on the truck, I won't call your dealer a butthole but I completely agree with Mi Duckdown since he needs some electrical knowledge, the wiring is incomplete not surprising, its pretty common, get your trailer ground to the truck.

 

[Ccfbailey]

Re: New trailer problems

I called a tech at Shorelandr. He tells me that some of the smaller (cheaper) trailers do not have the ground attached to them, even on a swing. What IS a little different on mine is that there are 2 white wires coming from the trailer connector and run down each side of the trailer to the back. But... nowhere is a white wire connected to the frame. There will be soon and I suspect the problem will be solved.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: New trailer problems

+1

Confirming Mr. Lipp!

There is no necessity to attach the white wire to the trailer frame.
The whites from the light need some circuit to the battery Neg Terminal.
This will normally be the through the vehicle body at some point.
If the vehicle side of the Hitch connector white does not make contact to the vehicle body; The connection through the ball to the trailer frame will work. but it will be intermittent at best.

Base on your statement...

Stuffed a temporary wire into the ground connector and attached to the tongue.... Solid bright lights.

The brackets of the trailer lights are grounded along with the white wires inside of each light to the trailer frame or this would not have worked.
Also if the white wire in the vehicle connector was faulty, this would not have worked.

It sounds like the White wire at the trailer connector has a problem.
Either the connector is faulty, or you pinched the wire when you swung the folding tongue and cut it.
Trace out that white wire!

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: New trailer problems

Ok check this out, the difference is that in your case its likely that instead of the white ground wire going to the frame and then each individual light being grounded to the frame, your trailer probably has the white wire running in a daisy chain to each light which is fine, except it sounds like there is a break in the wire somewhere, or there is no connection, a DVM makes this really easy I mean a ten minute deal, find the break and/or missing ground.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: New trailer problems

I called a tech at Shorelandr. He tells me that some of the smaller (cheaper) trailers do not have the ground attached to them, even on a swing. What IS a little different on mine is that there are 2 white wires coming from the trailer connector and run down each side of the trailer to the back. But... nowhere is a white wire connected to the frame. There will be soon and I suspect the problem will be solved.

Forget the trailer frame... it is NOT part of this issue.... you have a ground wire running through your plug and to the TOW VEHICLE frame. IF you have a ground problem it is somewhere in that circuit... MY BET is that the plug itself is the problem.

 

[roscoe]

Re: New trailer problems

You have a real white wire grounding the lights.
The white wire completes the loop.

Hot to light, white ground away from light, running back to the connector, where it should match up with a white wire on the tow vehicle.

The old way of using the trailer frame as a ground, is unreliable.
THe connections rust and corrode, and there is no good consistent connection through the hitch ball.
On your trailer, you also have the break in the connection at the swing hitch.

A wire running from the light to the truck is the way to go.


I'm guessing that the hot wire that runs to the inop light is cut or damaged and is shorting out on the frame somewhere.

It should be relatively easy to find the bad wire with a volt meter, and a length of wire.

 

[roscoe]

Re: New trailer problems

I'm aware the white is ground. What I'm confused about is that there is no white wire attached to the frame anywhere. Are the lights really grounded then?

Why attach the white to the frame?
The frame is not grounded to the earth, or to the truck battery, except for poorly - through the hitch.

THe white wire is connected to the battery.

 

[Ccfbailey]

Re: New trailer problems

Great replies for my question guys!!! Thanks a bunch for getting the "ground to frame"outa my head. It makes perfect sense that its a big ground loop back to the neg on the truck. Will look at it tomorrow in a different light!!!

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: New trailer problems

Great replies for my question guys!!! Thanks a bunch for getting the "ground to frame"outa my head. It makes perfect sense that its a big ground loop back to the neg on the truck. Will look at it tomorrow in a different light!!!

exactly! the frame can be used but in your case it most likely is not, so you could be chasing your tail, if you have a DVM Simply check resistance from the white pin in your trailer plug to the trailer if it measures no connection you know what that means get a length of wire and measure from the ground pin on the trailer plug to each ground on each light I bet you still have no connection, find the break and fix it, if everything measures good then check your trucks ground.

 

[gm280]

Re: New trailer problems

You could do both. That is attaching the white wires to the trailer as ground and to every light in the circuit and also run the white wire to the trailer plug too. That way you have all possibilities covered with any tow vehicle you would use. It then becomes a redundant ground. And at the tongue swing issue, you can install a small braided wire connection at the pivot point from one section to the other. Just sand down to the metal and attach the braided wire on each side of the swing tongue. You can repaint over the attachment if you want to protect it. That will allow you to swing the tongue out of the way but still have both the white wire from all the lights still connected AND the braided connection as well for trailer ground connections...problem totally solved... That is how I would do it and forget about the lights...

 

[Ccfbailey]

Re: New trailer problems

Yes I do have a DVM. I took a reading from white trailer pin to frame and it was zero. I figured that was the problem indicating no ground to frame. To be clear.... it should be zero with vehicle not connected, yes?

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: New trailer problems

Yes I do have a DVM. I took a reading from white trailer pin to frame and it was zero. I figured that was the problem indicating no ground to frame. To be clear.... it should be zero with vehicle not connected, yes?

??? Zero Ohms, or Zero continuity??? Meter reads "OL"?? (OverLoad, Infinity?) Assuming Zero Continuity.

NO! It COULD be Zero Ohms, that would be OK, But, it does not HAVE to be Zero Ohms.
I'll guess that it WILL be zero when it is working. But it need Not be!
Forget the Frame!

If you read through the Trailer lighting posts, you will find many recommendations to run a separate White ground wire to each light.
This is what you have. A separate ground wire to each light. Not a frame ground!
Your trailer manufacturer wired it the expensive way. They didn't cheap out! Be Happy!
Forget the Frame!

You have 2 white wires leaving the connector because there is one running down each side of the frame to each light

Do you have a connection (Zero Ohms) from the Hitch Connector (White) to the lights (White)?
That is the question you need to answer.

 

[Ccfbailey]

Re: New trailer problems

Thanks for all the great advice!!
No continuity from white pin to trailer frame. Thought that was a bad thing before starting this post. I'm crystal clear on what I'm dealing with here now. Will check for a break in the ground wire going to lights first. If ok, will look to truck connections. I'm a thinkin it will be my 4pin flat to 7 pin adaptor. You guys are great!! Glad I found this site!!

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: New trailer problems

Power the connector independent from the vehicle and see if the lights work.
A 12volt Battery or a Battery Charger can be used to power the trailer connections.

Reference... 4/5 pin trailer connector
1. White - Common Ground.
2. Brown - Tail/Side Marker Lights.
3. Yellow - Left Brake/Turn Lights.
4. Green - Right Brake/Turn Lights.
5. Blue - Reverse Brake Lockout. (5 pin only)

Another Test...
1. Meter from #1 to each of 2,3 and 4. Should measure a few 10's of ohms or less.

2. Meter from the Trailer frame to each of 2,3 and 4.
If you see a circuit (<20 ohms); The lights are grounded to the frame internally through their mountings.
This is OK!, and why it works sometimes intermittently. (Strictly a curiosity test!)

 

[Silvertip]

Re: New trailer problems

I don't understand why this is such a problem. Trailers that DO NOT have a swing tongue generally use a frame ground from the white wire in the harness. Trailer lights obtain a ground in one of two (or both ways). 1) a ground wire comes out of the light housing or 2) one of the light mounting bolts serves as the ground connection to the frame. So there will either be two or three wires exiting the light except for marker lights that MUST have a frame ground. Now back to the white wire ground. Because of the swing tongue on this trailer the wire harness must pass through the joint. Because of the joint, connecting the white wire to the tongue of the trailer ahead of the joint would certainly cause an intermittent light problem. Shorland'r knows this so the solution is to ground the white wire AFTER the joint or split the white wire and run down each side of the trailer. At the lights, one can connect the white wire to the ground stud that mounts the light to the frame or to the separate ground wire coming out of the light or both. With an ohm meter connected to the terminal with the white wire and to the frame is a meaningless check unless one first looks to see what the wiring is at the lamps.. Direct wire there is no need for chassis ground. Two wire system needs a ground either on the mounting stud or at the trailer frame. If the frame is used, then the ground stud on the light must make a solid connection to the frame as well. As the Kyocera printer guy on TV says -- It's really not that difficult.

 

[Ccfbailey]

Re: New trailer problems

Thanks for the reply Silvertip.
The problem is... I thought all trailers needed to be grounded to the frame. It turns out that's not the case as I've learned here. When my lights were not working , I discoverd there was no ground to frame and that was my concern. Since asking on here about it, I've learned that this trailer does not utilize a ground connection to the frame. It all makes sense to me now and will proceed with a couple tests tomorrow. I'm sure it will be an easy fix.