Blower vent line I/O

[kilowatts]

Re: Blower vent line I/O

Hi Guys:

I guess I should re-state my position after seeing the above pics. I have much more room in my engine room/doghouse and I use the rigid CSA approved thick aluminum dryer vent hose. It's quite solid and does not crush. It's nowhere near electrical wires and is securely fastened to the inside of the transom. Very safe. Forgive my misunderstanding.

kilowatts

 

[imraan47]

Re: Blower vent line I/O

in this case...can anyone post pics of their blower to see how its done right.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Blower vent line I/O

WOW! I can see several problems there.... among them: You have a conductive material snaked around several 12+ terminals. You have the blower down low where it is more likely to be exposed to water which is less of a safety concern and more of a maintenance issue. You are using 4" hose on a 3" blower..... Guys the plastic hose will generally last 20 - 30 years, is impervious to corrosion, is nonconductive, and does not fatigue.... While alum may not guarantee failure it is not the proper material to use.....

I'm not posting this to hurt anyone's feelings but rather to help out

I will say that the hose pictured above is a different hose than I used.... mine was a much more rigid tube that held it's shape after bending..... still though all the manufacturers use plastic and have for decades...... if alum was better or in any way a viable choice SOMEBODY would use it oem.........

If you just HAVE to be different then use pvc with rubber hose boots to connect to vents and blower

 

[imraan47]

Re: Blower vent line I/O

WOW! I can see several problems there.... among them: You have a conductive material snaked around several 12+ terminals. You have the blower down low where it is more likely to be exposed to water which is less of a safety concern and more of a maintenance issue. You are using 4" hose on a 3" blower..... Guys the plastic hose will generally last 20 - 30 years, is impervious to corrosion, is nonconductive, and does not fatigue.... While alum may not guarantee failure it is not the proper material to use.....

I'm not posting this to hurt anyone's feelings but rather to help out

I will say that the hose pictured above is a different hose than I used.... mine was a much more rigid tube that held it's shape after bending..... still though all the manufacturers use plastic and have for decades...... if alum was better or in any way a viable choice SOMEBODY would use it oem.........

If you just HAVE to be different then use pvc with rubber hose boots to connect to vents and blower

I don't know but the amount of heat generated in dryers is quite a bit and these tubes withstand that kind of heat. i almost want to put these tubes in a controlled flame as an experiment and post the results of that here. i bet anyone that they can handle a lot more heat. the issue really isn't heat anyway though.
the blower is no where near the water level and never really touches water. based on this boat, this is the standard area where its placed and any previous owners have never had any trouble with this.
i can see how its close to battery wires makes it a problem but if one ensures the wires are kept well and in good condition then there should be no problems at all.
i have used proper clams that are used to hold bellows in place for example so these clamps are very tight and wont let any air/fumes to escape.

 

[JimS123]

Re: Blower vent line I/O

Marine parts have a different design for a reason. Many of the 12v terminal blocks are not fully enclosed, or just capped with a rubber boot. Look at the trim cylinder, for example. Running an open electrical conductor through the engine compartment is dangerous. Too many "ifs" in the justification statement.

OMG man, I just looked in my catalog and a 10' piece of approved hose is only 8 bucks!

When the boat above is put through a USCGA marine inspection, it will fail.

You do submit to the Courtesy Safety inspections, don't you?

 

[imraan47]

Re: Blower vent line I/O

When the boat above is put through a USCGA marine inspection, it will fail.

You do submit to the Courtesy Safety inspections, don't you?

In Canada i don't really know what the rules are but boats like these are never bothered with inspection. Mainly its stuff that 40ft plus and sailboats

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Blower vent line I/O

he wasn't talking about being boarded... He was talking about free safety inspections put on by the coast guard aux.... The check your boat out and tell you what needs to be changed..... This is not law enforcement but rather a free safety inspection


On another note I have been boarded, inspected, and ticketed in an 18' center console with an outboard.... the us coast guard got me on lake erie and popped me for expired flares.


In the end you are gonna do whatever you want and I hope everything works for you...... honestly though you have chosen a risky installation and it looks like you plan to stand by your choice.... So be it, but please don't encourage others to do the same.... Maybe your superior installation abilities have put in a class of your own but others might not be so lucky.... (EDIT: OOPS!) ....Your best bet here would be to listen to the advice of those in the know and you just might save your own life in the process

 

[imraan47]

Re: Blower vent line I/O

In the end you are gonna do whatever you want and I hope everything works for you...... honestly though you have chosen a risky installation and it looks like you plan to stand by your choice.... So be it, but please don't encourage others to do the same.... Maybe your superior installation abilities have put in a class of your own but others might not be so lucky.... Seems it wasn't so long ago that you posted up that you had rebuilt your rotted out transom with bondo, spackled on from the outside.... Your best bet here would be to listen to the advice of those in the know and you just might save your own life in the process

not sure but where you referring to me here? because i have never attempted to rebuild anything on a boat. lol

 

[JoLin]

Re: Blower vent line I/O

There are so many 'modifications' that people make that I just don't understand. Why not just use the stuff that's been tested and approved for BOATS? I'll admit that sometimes those things seem to be overkill, but then I consider where I'll be if and when 'my choice' proves to be just plain WRONG.

I can't call 911 and get instant response.
I can't call the fire department.
I can't run out to the street to escape.
I can't run to a neighbor to 'give me a hand.'

The best I can hope for is that I'll be thrown, blown or forced to jump, into a medium that doesn't support human life.

Sweet

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Blower vent line I/O

not sure but where you referring to me here? because i have never attempted to rebuild anything on a boat. lol

Indeed I was but I DID confuse you with another fellow.... you both have something in common.... Both of you have good intentions and are working on your own boats and both of you still have room to learn (as do we all). My point was that you just are not in the position to be telling the world that the accepted practices are old school and you have the better fix...... There are PLENTY of reasons not to do it the way you have done it..... I DID also figure out where I was remembering you from too.... It was the "How to test a blower" thread and several others where you needed electrical help..... I know you have taken alot of flak about your boat and that it can get real old..... You just finish a project and someone jumps all over you for something you thought was great..... But please understand that we only want to help

I will say that you hav made a noticeable improvement in that engine compartment.... please though ditch the alum hose and get some 3" plastic....

Very inexpensive and well worth the 15 minutes to install.... I replaced both blowers and all the hose in my wellcraft..... both worked but were slightly noisy and the hose showed no signs of failure but it is such an important system that there is just no room to mess around.... By the way... the hose I replaced with no cracking at all was 21 years old.... it was only slightly stiffer than the new hose

 

[Thajeffski]

Re: Blower vent line I/O

After watching the "Mayday" series about how airplanes crash and WHY the end up killing 100's of people there is no WAY I'd ever not do something the right way.

Putting a HUGE metal pipe in your engine compartment is the WRONG WAY period. Sparks + fumes = boom.

100's of people have lost their lives because of mistakes like this.

To ANY of you that have metal drier pipe in your engine compartment PLEASE for the sake of your families, change that out to rubber stuff. All that has to happen is a wire gets a little frayed.......some fuel vapors escape while you're sitting out there on a hot day.........and a spark, and it could all be over for you and your loved ones.


There's a reason ALL boat manuf. put in rubber vent hoses. They don't want to kill people is why.

 

[achris]

Re: Blower vent line I/O

Here's a story from a few years back. And a good illustration of what can go wrong.

This was an aluminium Fisheries patrol boat that had just had some hull work done. The work was installing a new vent tube for the main under-floor fuel tank. Unfortunately the installer had no clue on how things should be, and installed the tube so it vented into the bilge . Because the boat was having welding work done the fuel tanks had been emptied and before the first patrol needed to be filled. As the boat was at a remote location it was being filled from 200l drums (50 gallon barrels) and nobody was able to see a fuel spill from the vent line into the bilge. As SOP the bilge blower was switched on. This is when the whole lot went up, and because the explosion was in the bilge, the floor was forced up about 2 feet. The 2 guys on board were not killed, but they will never walk again. The floor came up with such force it destroyed their ankles and the bones in their lower legs.

The boat was shipped to the city for inspection and it was found that the blower wire had a VERY small chaff on it where it ran over one of the hull ribs. When the blower was switched on, the wire sparked and the fumes did the rest.

How do I know this?... I was the guy who did the inspection. It's a very sobering lesson when you see it first hand. Also as a Fisheries contractor I got to know a few of the operators. One of the guys hurt was one I knew. He had a young family, but will never be able to play or even walk with his kids.

Please, please... do the job right, listen to the advice here and do everything you can to minimize the risks. If that means spending an extra few dollars, do it...

When confronted by a choice of cheap or right I always ask myself "How much is my life worth?", then I think about the 2 guys on that Fisheries boat. Even if it's a few hundred dollars... I'd like to go out of this life, in many years time, with all my parts intact....

Chris........

 

[imraan47]

Re: Blower vent line I/O

First of all thanks for your replies to previous threads. I am here and posting to get help and advice. IF anyone can do a better job which i am sure there are many then make the market and get into this business. There is money to be made. IF i had money, i wouldn't do this job myself. I'd rather hire someone to get it done and i have yahts sitting waiting for me.
I intend on not changing what i have because i am confident that these vents are just fine. if i blow up then of well lol. if i happen to find the black plastic vents in a marine store then i will buy it but so far i have yet to see it being sold in a store. its a hassel for us Canadians to order stuff online and paying more for shipping than the price for the product.
Chris..first of in your story...its ridiculous that people dont know they shouldn't be using that blower when fueling...you need to turn the blower on once the fuel cap is closed thats after fueling is done.

 

[Thajeffski]

Re: Blower vent line I/O

First of all thanks for your replies to previous threads. I am here and posting to get help and advice. IF anyone can do a better job which i am sure there are many then make the market and get into this business. There is money to be made. IF i had money, i wouldn't do this job myself. I'd rather hire someone to get it done and i have yahts sitting waiting for me.
I intend on not changing what i have because i am confident that these vents are just fine. if i blow up then of well lol. if i happen to find the black plastic vents in a marine store then i will buy it but so far i have yet to see it being sold in a store. its a hassel for us Canadians to order stuff online and paying more for shipping than the price for the product.
Chris..first of in your story...its ridiculous that people dont know they shouldn't be using that blower when fueling...you need to turn the blower on once the fuel cap is closed thats after fueling is done.

it's just as ridiculous that you think having metal tubes in your engine bay is OK it's not just your safety you should be worried about. it's everyone you ever take on your boat. When they determine that the cause of the explosion was metal pipes that arched one of those cables.......and that's why your friend has lost use of his arms and legs....or whatever.........you better be prepared to pay some BIG settlement money!!

 

[Finnish genius]

Re: Blower vent line I/O

I wasn't able to pick any up , they were closed by the time we got there. Most likely a good thing. I have read the posts and will go with the rubber or plastic hose. There are too darn many electrical connections that could come in contact with it. Thank you all , Ken . The Finnish genius learned something today!

 

[achris]

Re: Blower vent line I/O

...Chris..first of in your story...its ridiculous that people dont know they shouldn't be using that blower when fueling...you need to turn the blower on once the fuel cap is closed thats after fueling is done.

That's exact what happened. The blower was switched on AFTER fueling was finished.

If you don't replace that metal tubing, like EVERYONE is saying, then I have no sympathy for your fate, just the people you take with you and the poor sod who's got to do the clean-up. Best you change it BEFORE an accident, not as a result of one.

Regardless of how much trouble it is or how much freight you have to pay.... don't take the risk. Just because that's how it was when you bought the boat, or the fact that it's been like that for many years doesn't make it right.

Aluminium foil like that actually catches fire, so you don't even need fuel vapour around for it to raze a boat. Some of you may have hear of an event called the Falklands War. I currently work with quite a few guys who were involved, directly, in that event. They all say the same thing, it wasn't the missiles hitting the ships that killed the most people, it was the subsequent fires.

Don't have fire risks on boats. Please remove your metal blower hose and replace it with something non-conductive.

Chris......

 

[imraan47]

Re: Blower vent line I/O

so then every one that has a dryer with this kind of tube should be catching fire because of the heat generated.

well i will visit marine stores in my area and hopefully someone has the right hose. i will take a piece of mine and see what they say about it also.
Thanks
now need to figure out the fuel guage problem lol

 

[Philster]

Re: Blower vent line I/O

WARNING: Opening a engine hatch to let fresh air in is not a substitute for pumping/blowing out the fumes (via a blower and proper tubing) which settle down low.

Someone mentioned earlier that, even if their setup is wrong, they open the hatch to let in fresh air anyway.


WELL, Heavy fumes need to be pulled out by a blower.

 

[imraan47]

Re: Blower vent line I/O

WARNING: Opening a engine hatch to let fresh air in is not a substitute for pumping/blowing out the fumes (via a blower and proper tubing) which settle down low.

Someone mentioned earlier that, even if their setup is wrong, they open the hatch to let in fresh air anyway.


WELL, Heavy fumes need to be pulled out by a blower.

Was me..
I do it anyway and makes more sense to me. I mean depending on any thing made by man compared to what nature can do..the latter is more accepted.

 

[achris]

Re: Blower vent line I/O

Was me..
I do it anyway and makes more sense to me. I mean depending on any thing made by man compared to what nature can do..the latter is more accepted.

That's the point, nature can't do it... Petrol vapour is heavier than air and will pool at the lowest point (usually the engine bay bilge). Opening the engine cover will do NOTHING to disperse those fumes. Only sucking them out with a blower (not a dryer) will get rid of them before the engine is cranked.

I didn't say that the aluminium duct tube would catch fire due to heat, I said it could burn if subject to high electrical current.

You appear to be doing a lot of mis-reading in this thread. Is there a problem?

Chris..........
(ok guys, this is my last post in this thread. If Inraan47 is too stupid to see simple facts, we can't help him, only god can do that now)