Firearms aboard boats

[Nandy]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

Well, got my answers. I had a DNR LEO from each state to answer the question, Can I carry a gun in my boat while boating in state own lakes?

In SC you cannot carry a gun in your boat unless you have a CCW permit. If you have a permit then it don't matter if you have it in your body or stowed away.

In NC the DNR follows the state law just like you are in your car. It has to be in plain view to the officer and it only can be stowed away if you have a CCW permit.
In both states, regardless if you have a ccw permit or not the gun has to be declared if stopped by a LEO.

As far as I'm concerned the 2nd Amendment grants me the right to have a gun in my home, boat, car, or on my person.

While boating the above information is incorrect. If you carry concealed in NC without a CCW you are breaking the law. In SC if you dont have a ccw permit you are also breaking the law.

And just so you all know...it's entirely legal in every state and offshore. Ever heard of duck hunting? Lots of it done out of boats...ocean, lake, river, marsh...you name it.

I would not say all states but the above statement is true in SC and NC provided the waterfowl season is open, the shotgun is plugged for a max of 3 shells, the load is appropriate for waterfowl (steel or bismuth and you cannot have buck shot or slugs) and you have all the hunting licenses and stamps required by the federal and state law. Don't look like a self defense set up to me unless you only boat during waterfowl season and you are defending yourself from them nasty mallards....

 

[Bugs825]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

A few months back there was a story on the news about one guy that was glad to have been packing while boating here in Florida. He said that him and a buddy were crusing in the ICW when some psyco in another boat started screaming at them. They looked at each other and shrugged it off. the boat raced ahead and turned head on to them ramming down one side of the boat after a few close calls. The driver of the rammed boat pulled his handgun on the psyco to stop him from ramming them again. It worked and he went to jail. Nut-jobs are everywhere, cops arn't.

Nathan

 

[guy74]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

"Nut-jobs are everywhere, cops arn't." At least in our area, 911 is government sponsored "Dial a prayer". It will be 25-40 minutes to get any help out here, so the cops are just gonna show up to draw chalklines, and take statments, cause it's gonna be over by the time they get here (If they can find the address).
One thing to think about, if you want to carry a firearm for protection and don't want a hassle, how about a stainless steel, cap and ball revolver. They are not considered a firearm by most states, or the BATF. Six shots from a 44 cal hand cannon is better than nothing, learn to use it and it's as good as a cartridge gun for the first 6 shots. Just my $.02

 

[ksubigbuck]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

Well, got my answers. I had a DNR LEO from each state to answer the question, Can I carry a gun in my boat while boating in state own lakes?

In SC you cannot carry a gun in your boat unless you have a CCW permit. If you have a permit then it don't matter if you have it in your body or stowed away.

In NC the DNR follows the state law just like you are in your car. It has to be in plain view to the officer and it only can be stowed away if you have a CCW permit.
In both states, regardless if you have a ccw permit or not the gun has to be declared if stopped by a LEO.


While boating the above information is incorrect. If you carry concealed in NC without a CCW you are breaking the law. In SC if you dont have a ccw permit you are also breaking the law.



I would not say all states but the above statement is true in SC and NC provided the waterfowl season is open, the shotgun is plugged for a max of 3 shells, the load is appropriate for waterfowl (steel or bismuth and you cannot have buck shot or slugs) and you have all the hunting licenses and stamps required by the federal and state law. Don't look like a self defense set up to me unless you only boat during waterfowl season and you are defending yourself from them nasty mallards....

All of that sounds about right. I'm thinking more along the lines of scatterguns though, not handguns. I don't carry...not a lot of bad crime in Kansas, thankfully. But, I do usually have a 12 guage in the truck, especially during waterfowl season because I never know when a buddy might call and say "better get out here now, the geese are everywhere." I have been pulled over a couple of times and both times I immediately informed the officer that I had a gun in the back. Neither time did the officers seem to care, and they never even asked to see it. I have been boarded a few times while hunting from a boat. And, let me tell you those guys are thorough! Once was even by federal officers, and they went as far as cutting open the shells we were using. Everything was in order, but it took close to an hour and ruined our hunt.

Let me throw another wrench in the equation...what about Hawaii, which has no waterfowl season? Thus, they have no need to hunt out of a boat.

 

[Nandy]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

Hawaii dont have a waterfoul season? There goes my plans to retire there!!! LOL! Kansas, heard you guys have great deer there. Someday I will get a chance to go up north where the real whitetail lives.....

 

[alamosaddles]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

Alamosaddles



I spoke today to our local ACOE Regulation Officer and they said based on their rules it is illegal, but do to the fact the Coast Guard recognizes this as a signalling device they have instructed their officers not to make this a ticketing offense. So in some aspects we were both right. Yes it is a law but ACOE overlooks this due to the Coast Guard rules. We both learned something!!

No disrespect, but I have not learned anything here. Congress, in conjunction with ATF have defined and determined what is, and is not a firearm. No federal agency can go and make their own definition of a firearm if it is contrary to that which Congress and the ATF have in place. Congress recognizes that a flare gun, used for signaling purposes is NOT a firearm, which in turn prohibits the ACOE from claiming it to be a firearm.

Can you please identify by name who this local ACOE officer is, so that I may again call the director of ACOE regulatory division to have this clarified with that officer. Your local ACOE had NO RIGHT to "overlook" the possesion of a flare gun. He is obligated to follow Congressional and ACOE guidelines and simply instruct his local officers that flare guns are not simply to be overlooked, but instead are to be accepted as what they are, emergency devices.

As I stated before, as a federal firearms dealer, I am never guessing when I speak about firearms or federal laws, codes and regulation concerning firearms and firearms laws. What I stated originally stands, flare guns are allowed aboard ANY boat which is required to have flares, as a flare gun is not a firearm.

Again, please identify who this officer is. Officers with misinformation need to be corrected to avoid, for example, an overzealous officer under his command from ticketing or arresting someone incorrectly.

 

[alamosaddles]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

Im surprised your state forces the private owner of a business to allow you to carry a gun in his private property and denies that owner his right to not allow guns in his private property. In NC even if you have a ccw you are not allowed to carry in a private property where it has been posted that guns are not allowed. Im not sure what the charge is, maybe is just trespassing... But I am sure that will be enough to get your ccw permit revoked.

Having wrote that, I have to admit that if I had to go to a mall that I will feel that threatened I would probably carry anyway. However the best option, when possible, would be not to go to that mall...

I did not say the state forces the private property owner to do anything.

I did say that it is not illegal to carry a firearm, concealed, if you have a concealed carry permit, except in legislation specified places. Regardless of what the business posts, it is still not a violation of the law. You cannot be charged with trespassing if the business is open for business, unless you have been warned not to trespass or unless you broke in after hours.

The law is clear as to what type of action would get the ccw revoked, even in NC. Let me enlighten you.

Your NC law states that even with permit, weapons are prohibited in:
Schools
Alcoholic establishments
State buildings
Events in public places such as funeral processions, picket lines etc.
Areas of emergency and riots

Outside of that you can carry a concealed weapon with a permit anywhere. Even if your local mall decides they want to strip your rights away, unless you go whipping your gun out in the mall, you CANNOT be arrested or charged with anything just because you choose to ignore their posting. Worst they can do is ask you to leave. But in order to ask you to leave, they have to know you have a concealed weapon. But if you are properly concealing your weapon, how do they know you have one? If you are an idiot and you go telling mall security hey, look e here..I have a concealed weapon..then you deserve to be escorted out. After all, the purpose of a concealed weapon is so that a criminal won't know you are armed, and it gives you an edge...

As to not carrying unless you feel threatened...the point is that nowadays, you can be in the safest of places and the criminal element will choose that one place for their action. You no longer have to be in a bad part of town, which means you need to have your own safety in mind anywhre you go.

 

[alamosaddles]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

"
One thing to think about, if you want to carry a firearm for protection and don't want a hassle, how about a stainless steel, cap and ball revolver. They are not considered a firearm by most states, or the BATF. Six shots from a 44 cal hand cannon is better than nothing, learn to use it and it's as good as a cartridge gun for the first 6 shots.

I agree. It's not a firearm under federal codes unless it's used illegally, and frankly, I would not want to get hit with one .44 ball much less six. It bypasses the need for a permit and does give you the ability to stave off a maniac. Good suggestion.

 

[guy74]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

Alamosaddles, you seem to be a man of knowledge and facts. Regarding the cap and ball revolvers, do they become a firearm under fedral regulations when I put in a cartridge conversion cylinder to shoot 44 spl ammo?

 

[Suddzies]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

In responce to the topic of piracy occuring in fresh water, I have heard a few stories.

There is a lake in Texas that has Texas on one side and Mexico on the other.

One of the "common" tactics for thieves is the ambush and carjack someone on the Texas side as they are preparing to launch there boat. This a fabulous bass fishing lake so 40k bass boats are not uncommon. The thieves will back the boat and trailer down the ramp and unhook the trailer from the truck with the bow and stern still firmly attached to the boat. They jump in the boat and take off across the lake to a waiting truck on the Mexico side, drive up on the ramp and hook on to the truck and dissapear. I read about this happening on the internet, so it must be true.

 

[alamosaddles]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

Alamosaddles, you seem to be a man of knowledge and facts. Regarding the cap and ball revolvers, do they become a firearm under fedral regulations when I put in a cartridge conversion cylinder to shoot 44 spl ammo?

Thanks guy, I am a walking federal firearms regulation library. I don't know too much about boats, wiring etc., but firearms and the laws that encompass I do know. If anyone had any firearm related issues or questions, I'm happy to help with "accurate" and "factually correct" info.

Under federal statutes an antique cap and ball is not considered a firearm except that if it has been converted to fire rimfire or other conventional centerfire ammunition it then looses it's exempt status. In a separate subsection defined by Congress, a muzzle loader which has been converted to firing any sort of fixed ammunition by replacing its barrel, bolt or breechlock also looses it's exempt status.

Remember that antique will NOT include a currently made copy of an antique firearm. If it is currently made as a replica, and the original is an antique and fired fixed ammo, the new copy will be considered a firearm, where as the original will remain as a non firearm antique.

In a nutshell, as far as the federal government is concerned, if you take an antique which did not originally use fixed ammo and you convert it to utilize commercially available ammunition and it was NOT originally manufactured that way, it will be classified as a firearm under statute and reg. Some firearms, due to their age and/or unavailability of ammunition, will be exempt from "firearm" classification, but they are few, and the few that exist tend to be very pricey due to their "rarity" factor.

 

[Nandy]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

IOutside of that you can carry a concealed weapon with a permit anywhere.

Really, try walking in my property with your concealed weapon when I post it that No gun are allowed...

 

[Downwindtracker2]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

On hunting forums there is always a silly topic,best bear stopping caliber,or rifle or shotgun,etc.The answers go on for weeks. Those that have real life experience are few and far between.However every year,many more canoeists are lost to PWCs than rapids.Carrying firearm does make good sense.

The hunting reg's govern the use of rifles from power boats,here.

 

[alamosaddles]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

Really, try walking in my property with your concealed weapon when I post it that No gun are allowed...

Tell me where you live and then open up your property to the public...I'll come armed and I'll give you a few pointers on how to be an adult.

My statement is factual whereas your is reminiscent of the schoolyard taunt.

Unless it is listed in legislation that it is a no firearms allowed location, you can walk into any place where you are legally allowed to be, with a concealed firearm if you have a permit.

Quit being a junior high kid with a chip on his shoulder and keep the conversation civil and adult like.

Now, if you want to show me where in YOUR state statutes it says I cannot enter with a gun, even with my permit....We can talk. Othewise, stay off the conversation if all you are trying to do is bait people. You must be an Obama koolaid drinker.

 

[Nandy]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

Tell me where you live and then open up your property to the public.

My point is and you seem to got it but not quite. You can't walk everywhere. My PRIVATE property being an example. It is not anywhere....

TYou must be an Obama koolaid drinker.
My statement is factual whereas your is reminiscent of the schoolyard taunt.

Yup, and that was not childish....

I'll come armed and I'll give you a few pointers on how to be an adult.

I dont need any pointers from you, I dont see how you behave like an adult in the above post, dont see the reason for the attack either. I just invite you to walk in a clearly private property with a signed posted "No firearms allowed". Im sure if the owner cares for it you will be in front of a magistrate...

 

[alamosaddles]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

No actually you don't get it. The coversation centered around what is LEGAL and what is ILLEGAL. Under the law, it is NOT a criminal violation to disregard a private propery owners posting of no guns allowed, IF that property is open to the public. Do you think as a private property owner, you can host a public event and post "no blacks allowed", and if a black person attends you can have them arrested? Exactly, at most, the police may ask the individual to leave, but thats it. No magistrate or court or police officer will stand by you with any other action you take.

If you doubt me and are so sure of yourself, please post your state statute that shows otherwise.

 

[clemsonfor]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

i know im jumping in late here, but on the first page i read about you cant walk into the woods with a rifle when its not hunting season, while this may be true on public land i can carry a rifle anywhere on my own land and shoot anything aslong as its not people, game or protected species. Pigs are not considered native or game species there a nuisiance and therefore legally as stated in the hunting regs be shot at any point during the year regardless of any season or time of day, yes you can night hunt them, if its not deer season etc. But as far as rifle or shotgun in your boat you cant do it if its not hunting season, if you have a ccw permit go for it if not i would not hide it but you do have a leagal right to carry a gun, you just cant conceal it!

-nate

 

[Nandy]

Re: Firearms aboard boats

Additionally, as a Federal Firearms Licensed dealer, I will tell you this. DO NOT listen to what anyone in this forum tells you regarding the legality of your firearms possession aboard you boat in any given body of water. Though federal law does not prohibit such possession, each and every state may have different laws which govern such act. Not finding out what YOUR state and municipality say about this can end your right to have a firearm, forever.

Yup, too many self claim experts here that will get someone in jail.

I AM a licensed firearms dealer, I'm not just talking out of my blow hole

Being a licensed firearms dealer does not exclude you from being wrong or make a mistake....

Thanks guy, I am a walking federal firearms regulation library. I don't know too much about boats, wiring etc., but firearms and the laws that encompass I do know. If anyone had any firearm related issues or questions, I'm happy to help with "accurate" and "factually correct" info.

You dont seem to be all that accurate in the laws in NC. You might better stay in the federal law...

I took you up on your suggestion, something you should have done yourself before you spewed misinformation on a public forum such as this one.

I believe you should take your own advise...

I did say that it is not illegal to carry a firearm, concealed, if you have a concealed carry permit, except in legislation specified places. Regardless of what the business posts, it is still not a violation of the law. You cannot be charged with trespassing if the business is open for business, unless you have been warned not to trespass or unless you broke in after hours.

WRONG!!!! Yes, you can be charged with trespassing.

Outside of that you can carry a concealed weapon with a permit anywhere. Even if your local mall decides they want to strip your rights away, unless you go whipping your gun out in the mall, you CANNOT be arrested or charged with anything just because you choose to ignore their posting.

Wrong again! See the above.

The law is clear as to what type of action would get the ccw revoked, even in NC. Let me enlighten you.

Really, with wrong information? If you carry in a violation of your permit your gun is illegal.

No actually you don't get it. The coversation centered around what is LEGAL and what is ILLEGAL. Under the law, it is NOT a criminal violation to disregard a private propery owners posting of no guns allowed, IF that property is open to the public. Do you think as a private property owner, you can host a public event and post "no blacks allowed", and if a black person attends you can have them arrested? Exactly, at most, the police may ask the individual to leave, but thats it. No magistrate or court or police officer will stand by you with any other action you take.

If you doubt me and are so sure of yourself, please post your state statute that shows otherwise.

Wrong, wrong, wrong... IT IS ILLEGAL in NC to disregard the owner posting in his property, regardless if it is open to public or not.

Prohibited Places to Carry Concealed Firearms

This is a summary of places and times where concealed firearms may not be carried under North Carolina law. Review the text of this book for more detail on each prohibition listed.

Schools, school grounds or campus, school bus. NCGS 14-269.2; 18 USC 922.
Assemblies of people where a fee was charged for admission. NCGS 14-269.3
Places where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed. NCGS 14-269.3.
Courthouses. NCGS 14-269.4.
The State Capitol. NCGS 14-269.4.
The Governor?s official homes. NCGS 14-269.4.
Parades. NCGS 14-277.2.
Funeral processions. NCGS 14-277.2.
Picket lines. NCGS 14-277.2.
Demonstrations at private health care facilities. NCGS 14-277.2.
Any public place owned by a governmental unit. NCGS 14-277.2.
Any place (except one?s premises) where a state of emergency exists. NCGS 14-288.7.
Any place (except one?s premises) at or near where a riot is occurring. NCGS 14-288.7.
State legislative buildings and grounds. NCGS 120-32.1.
Any place prohibited by federal law. NCGS 14-415.11.
Law enforcement facilities. NCGS 14-415.11.
Correctional facilities (jails, prisons). NCGS 14-415.11.
Buildings housing only State or federal offices. NCGS 14-415.11.
State or federal government offices. NCGS 14-415.11.
Financial institutions (banks, etc.). NCGS 14-415.11.
[Bold]*** Premises with a notice posted prohibiting concealed weapons. NCGS 14-415.11.[/Bold]
Anywhere a firearms carrier is consuming alcohol. NCGS 14-415.11.
Anywhere a firearms carrier has alcohol remaining in his blood. NCGS 14-415.11.
Anywhere a firearms carrier has a controlled substance in his blood. NCGS 14-415.11.
Anywhere a firearms carrier does not have his permit on him. NCGS 14-415.11.
Anywhere a firearms carrier does not have identification on him. NCGS 14-415.11.
Anytime someone is barred by a court order from carrying firearms. NCGS 14-269.8.
Anyone carrying a concealed firearm when that person has a concealed carry permit from a State without reciprocity with North Carolina. NCGS 14-415.24.

G.S. 14-415.11 ? 14-415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun...

(c) A permit does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun in the areas prohibited by G.S. 14‑269.2, 14‑269.3, 14‑269.4, and 14‑277.2, in an area prohibited by rule adopted under G.S. 120‑32.1, in any area prohibited by 18 U.S.C. ? 922 or any other federal law, in a law enforcement or correctional facility, in a building housing only State or federal offices, in an office of the State or federal government that is not located in a building exclusively occupied by the State or federal government, a financial institution, or on any other premises, except state‑owned rest areas or state‑owned rest stops along the highways, [Bold]where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises.[Bold] It shall be unlawful for a person, with or without a permit, to carry a concealed handgun while consuming alcohol or at any time while the person has remaining in his body any alcohol or in his blood a controlled substance previously consumed, but a person does not violate this condition if a controlled substance in his blood was lawfully obtained and taken in therapeutically appropriate amounts.

*** BTW, it is a Class 2 misdemeanor for the first offense. A second or subsequent offense is punishable as a Class I felony. Talking about kissing your ccw license and possibly your right to bear arms away...