Welcome Guest - Sign Up today
Welcome Guest - Sign Up today

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

upgrading to a 383 stroker

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • upgrading to a 383 stroker

    Hey guys. I have a 1989 abermarle 24 with a volvo penta aq271c which is a 275hp 350 chevy and a dp-a volvo penta outdrive. I bought the boat last year and the second trip out I noticed the ujoint bellows slipped off. Anyways, something in the outdrive is binding up now stalling the engine and I just want to totally redo the outdrive and engine since i'm sure the u joints/pds bearings are probably shot now and the outdrive/engine needs to come out anyways to replace those.

    I bought a rebuilt volvo penta dp-a outdrive that has been gone thru, repainted and resealed for $2900.00

    Now for the 383 stroker I got a quote of $12,000 for a brand new 383 stroker complete drop in engine fresh water cooled with the old style manfolds/risers, so I just use the existing y pipe that works for the older volvo outdrive. Now I got to thinking, how about I have the existing engine rebuilt vs buying a brand new engine?


    My reasons for going with a brand new drop in engine are:

    -Comes with a 2 year warranty
    - I don't have to worry about marginal parts being reused
    - I don't know of any good machine shop/engine builders
    - My old original engine doesn't have vortec heads it has 12 bolts not 8
    - Its due for new manifolds/risers (7 years old)
    - I get all new power steering pump, alternator, raw water pump. etc
    - The fresh water cooling tank is corroded from bilge water hitting it at the bottom, so I want a new one of those also, preferably position horizontally in front of the engine so this doesn't happen again.

    Opinions?

    I don't know a whole lot about how the machine shop engine building thing works and what all can be done. $12,000 sounds pretty steep though vs just rebuilding what I have and turning it into a 383 stroker. The goal is to make it so I have confidence in the engine/outdrive so I can feel like I can go anywhere with it and not break down. With everything being 30 years old now I think it's just a matter of time before something goes wrong with it even thought the current engine is relatively simple with no electronics on it hardly.
    Last edited by boating maniac; September 30th, 2019, 12:42 AM.

  • #2
    Also i'm going to have a shop do the work and they also have a machine shop they use, then they install the tin. Although I don't know who they use or if they are any good, but they say they haven't had any issues with them. (what else are they going to say) lol
    Last edited by boating maniac; September 30th, 2019, 12:56 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Make sure the crank matches the old flywheel.
      They used a light duty 2bolt crank and the crank and flywheel didn't always hookup.



      Buy American made Cars and Trucks!!!Towing insurance for a boat,a GREAT thing.
      ​Tools to make my life easier: Battery tester, die grinder, temp.gun, compression tester, DVA meter.

      In Scenic , Beautiful San Sebastian by the sea Florida

      88 Bayliner 21CC 2001 Mercury 225 HP EFI

      PLEASE,NO PERSONAL MESSAGES IF THE QUESTION CAN BE ASKED ON THE OPEN FORUM I WON'T ANSWER AS MY SYSTEM CAN'T REPLY TO YOUR EMAILS

      Comment


      • #4
        $12k is extremely steep a brand new 6.2 MPI from mercruiser is only $11k and that includes all the plumbing which will plug up and fail, and a bunch of other mercruiser hypercomplexificated parts

        all the following assume you will transfer over the accessory drive and accessories, and transfer over the 715 CFM holley to a new manifold

        to build a brand new stroker long block, will cost you about $4200 and you control the components. then if you want to add a half system, thats another $1500. that is a new GMPP block, new vortec heads, new SCAT rotating assembly with KB LCQ style pistons, new damper, new flywheel this is about 350hp at the prop. add $1100 more if you want 420 at the prop

        to buy a brand new 377 stroker long block, that is $4200. that is a run-of-the-mill GM motor. then you add the HX to that http://centerstateengine.com/new-mar...-1996-present/ this is 320hp at the prop

        https://www.michiganmotorz.com/377ci...ent-p-545.html

        if you want to take your motor and rebuild it to a stroker, it will cost you about $3000-3800 depending on your machine shop. the only thing you would be using is the block. the heads you have on the motor are really good compared to the heads that mercruiser used. they are actually 64cc crate motor heads for Hi Po applications. however they are not vortec heads.

        finding a good machine shop is easy. find where the race teams and marinas in your area take their engines

        here are some other threads https://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...olvo-penta-5-7

        you may also find this thread interesting https://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...ll-the-admiral

        you need to rebuild your PDS - read this https://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...s-shaft-issues

        you dont need a whole new drive, you need new u-joints and to rebuild the upper (transmission). a new seal kit is $200, the bearings to rebuild the upper, about $60

        if you want a new power steering pump, that is $47. you need to still re-use your can, as the reservoir is VP only use. to rebuild your PS pump, its $11 for the kit

        a new alternator is $100

        if you need reconditioned pulleys for your 271C, PM me, I have all my 271C parts I didnt use on CL right now.

        you will need new exhaust manifolds. no, you cant add a full cooling system with most exhaust manifolds for VP's. I have asked the chief engineer at Volvo back in 2011 that very question. too much restriction in the manifolds water jacket for a HX

        you can add a set of hi-tek manifolds http://www.hitekmarine.com.au/ https://www.cpperformance.com/m-78-hi-tek-marine.aspx

        or you can add the Volvo Penta Neutra Salt system http://www.volvopentastore.com/Neutr...view_id.352393
        Cheesehead boating the Gulf Coast of FLA 27.51° N, 82.53° W

        1988 Cruisers Rogue 2420 -VP 290 DP now powered by custom 468 - https://forums.iboats.com/forum/owner...988-rogue-2420

        Past Boats
        1970 Wooster Hellion - Merc 9.8
        2002 SeaRay 190BR - 5.0 - A1G2 - "Cheeseheads in Paradise"
        1984 Avanti 170DLI -3.0 stringer- "Ship Happens"

        What’s behind you doesn’t matter.Enzo Ferrari

        Comment


        • #5
          I forgot to add. the PDS on your 271C wont take a 168 tooth flywheel, only the 153 tooth.

          remember that when you get the motor balanced. your machine shop will most likely recommend zero balance. if so, get a zero balance crank to start with (bigger bob weights)
          Cheesehead boating the Gulf Coast of FLA 27.51° N, 82.53° W

          1988 Cruisers Rogue 2420 -VP 290 DP now powered by custom 468 - https://forums.iboats.com/forum/owner...988-rogue-2420

          Past Boats
          1970 Wooster Hellion - Merc 9.8
          2002 SeaRay 190BR - 5.0 - A1G2 - "Cheeseheads in Paradise"
          1984 Avanti 170DLI -3.0 stringer- "Ship Happens"

          What’s behind you doesn’t matter.Enzo Ferrari

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Scott Danforth View Post
            I forgot to add. the PDS on your 271C wont take a 168 tooth flywheel, only the 153 tooth.

            remember that when you get the motor balanced. your machine shop will most likely recommend zero balance. if so, get a zero balance crank to start with (bigger bob weights)


            You're sure I have the weird 153 tooth smaller 12-3/4" flywheel? How do I know the bolt holes will line up to the crank like the other poster said?

            Comment


            • #7
              Also the $12k was for the complete long block with everything assembled, power steering, pulley's, old style risers/manifolds installed and an aftermarket fresh water cooling half kit. This is Michigan motors that said they would build it like this for me. He also said the engine is neutrally balanced, so I guess that means it will work with the smaller 153 tooth flywheel?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by boating maniac View Post



                You're sure I have the weird 153 tooth smaller 12-3/4" flywheel? How do I know the bolt holes will line up to the crank like the other poster said?
                I guarantee you have a 153 tooth flywheel. the 168 tooth flywheel WILL NOT FIT IN THE VP PDS, AND YOU CAN NOT MODIFY THE PDS TO FIT IT. I have been there, done that and bought the tee shirts. I went thru that in the link I provided when I went to build my BBC to put in place of the 271C SBC

                all factory SBC's from 1986 and later have a 1-piece Rear main seal and use the same bolt pattern. all factory SBC's from 1954 to 1985 have a 2-piece rear main seal and share the flywheel mounting with the BBC's (aftermarket can be either)

                all post 1986 1-piced RMS 153 and 168 tooth flywheels for a stock balanced small block are "neutral balanced" this means that you have +/- 30 grams per each piston/rod combo to hit. it means that your motor will have some imbalance and will be RPM limited. me personally, vs spending that much money on a stock internal motor would prefer to build a real motor and have it "zero balanced" that means the rotating assembly is truely balanced and not a "spec build balance" for example, my last build, each piston/rod assembly was balanced within 1 gram and there is $800 worth of malory metal pressed into my crank bob weights to zero balance the crank to allow that motor to spin at any RPM I want to hold it at.

                I would also suggest SFI rated damper and flywheel, especially if you plan on holding 5000 RPM for long periods of time. the stock cast $70 flywheel is just that..... cast. a steel billet SFI rated flywheel is $110. an SFI damper is a bit more

                when you buy a flywheel or damper, you must know the balance of your motor.

                for $12k, that $4200 motor with a $100 cast-iron intake manifold, $1500 heat exchanger and $500 manifolds better be installed in your boat.

                you are not getting a bargain if you know how to turn your own wrenches.

                and the stock 377 GM crate motor they are starting with uses a 168 tooth flywheel

                you could buy the same $4200 motor from the link I provided, install a $200 edelbrock RPM air-gap manifold, spend $30 on gaskets, mount a set of stock manifolds and be ahead. I can walk you thru a HX installation like I did. (I bought mine for $600, and built the bracket)





                Cheesehead boating the Gulf Coast of FLA 27.51° N, 82.53° W

                1988 Cruisers Rogue 2420 -VP 290 DP now powered by custom 468 - https://forums.iboats.com/forum/owner...988-rogue-2420

                Past Boats
                1970 Wooster Hellion - Merc 9.8
                2002 SeaRay 190BR - 5.0 - A1G2 - "Cheeseheads in Paradise"
                1984 Avanti 170DLI -3.0 stringer- "Ship Happens"

                What’s behind you doesn’t matter.Enzo Ferrari

                Comment


                • #9
                  Oh that's what he called it. Neutrally balanced. What does HX mean?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    nothing special about neutral balance of a stock motor. However the 1-piece RMS crank from GM is externally balanced (damper and flywheel) unless you specifically order the aftermarket stroker crank with neutral balance. the stock GM 377 gen 1 1-piece RMS crank is not neutral balanced.

                    https://www.gmperformancemotor.com/parts/12489436.html

                    you can order SCAT or Eagle cranks with either. however most builders wont use Eagle components as they are usually out of spec.

                    HX is Heat Exchanger

                    OC is oil cooler (you dont have one)
                    FC is fuel cooler (you dont have one)
                    PS cooler is power steering cooler
                    Cheesehead boating the Gulf Coast of FLA 27.51° N, 82.53° W

                    1988 Cruisers Rogue 2420 -VP 290 DP now powered by custom 468 - https://forums.iboats.com/forum/owner...988-rogue-2420

                    Past Boats
                    1970 Wooster Hellion - Merc 9.8
                    2002 SeaRay 190BR - 5.0 - A1G2 - "Cheeseheads in Paradise"
                    1984 Avanti 170DLI -3.0 stringer- "Ship Happens"

                    What’s behind you doesn’t matter.Enzo Ferrari

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I see. I may just let the shop have their machine shop build me a 383 with the existing engine I have. Although I do want vortec heads to be put on. Unfortunately I'm not really set up to do this stuff myself. I need either a forklift or an a frame to remove the engine and I don't really have convenienent access to either. The shop I had to fix my engine mount lag bolts quoted me 20hrs labor time to remove, reinstall and change over the tin. I'd bother go with new parts, like the harmonic balancer, new flywheel, etc and then make sure it's internally balanced.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Have you heard of a q/e build where they don't use the full dished piston?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Vortec heads are fairly inexpensive at $800 a pair. you will need them modified for higher valve lift (requires cutting the seal tower)

                          https://www.gmperformancemotor.com/parts/12558060.html

                          (cheaper thru Scoggin Dicky) when they have a sale https://sdparts.com/i-23901396-sdpc-...g-upgrade.html

                          however a good used set of vortecs can be had from nearly any machine shop that supports racing for about $400 already to run, already modified for screw-in rocker studs and high lift cam. rules changed, they no longer run vortec heads on 1/4 mile cars so there are hundreds of sets of heads awaiting new customers.

                          I would get the heart-shaped LCQ style piston from KB in the SCAT rotating assembly. they are basically an inverted vortec combustion chamber.

                          you only need hypers, you wont need forged unless you want to spin it at 5500 RPM all day long and maybe have a power adder such as a blower.

                          https://www.competitionproducts.com/...products/2868/
                          Cheesehead boating the Gulf Coast of FLA 27.51° N, 82.53° W

                          1988 Cruisers Rogue 2420 -VP 290 DP now powered by custom 468 - https://forums.iboats.com/forum/owner...988-rogue-2420

                          Past Boats
                          1970 Wooster Hellion - Merc 9.8
                          2002 SeaRay 190BR - 5.0 - A1G2 - "Cheeseheads in Paradise"
                          1984 Avanti 170DLI -3.0 stringer- "Ship Happens"

                          What’s behind you doesn’t matter.Enzo Ferrari

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I'm liking the idea of letting the shop use their guy then if a problem occurs, they can't come back and 've like well you gave us the engine, it's your problem. Honestly I'd prefer new heads for the $800 I don't want something that's been I a 1/4 mile drag strip. Lol

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Sign up today
                              I don't want this engine to blow up after 500hrs. I'd like it to last 2-3000hrs like the good old 350 did. Will the forged piston be more durable I'm assuming? I prefer to overbuild something then just make it marginal.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X