89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

[Eddie Rivera]

Hello, replaced float, needle, bowl gasket, and both small washer/gaskets on the screw holding bowl. Motor will not start. bulb gets hard and no leaks. motor cranks but wont start.

After changing the exhaust gasket and messing with float it started 3 times only till it died and never turned on. now i replaced the above mentioned items. but will not start.

I do have spark. I have 93 lbs of compression. Since i bought it in terms of the fuel pump, i only changed the rubber gasket on the sediment bowl of the fuel pump, but never tested nor changed anything else on it. It never gave me any starting issues till i messed with carb.

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

I just found a lot of debris in the new in line filter i added and also in the carb's bowl, i will replace that hose again and flush it and blow it before installing it.
How do i check if the fuel pump is working? or is it only based on the visual inspection?

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

Sounds like there is some debris in the fuel system, but as long as the fuel is getting to the carburetor, and you're getting good spark, it should fire, pop or do something.

You can kind of check the fuel pump by simply disconnecting the fuel line from the carburetor and place the end of it in a can. Some plastic containers are not fuel proof and will melt so be aware. Once you do that, crank the motor over. Fuel should squirt out of the fuel line into the container.

Have you tried to remove the spark plugs and squirt a teaspoon or so of 2-stoke fuel into the spark plug holes? Install the plugs as normal and try to start the motor. This way you know for sure that there is fuel in the cylinder. If it still doesn't fire, then I would suspect that the problem is not the carburetor.

 

[MickLovin]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

Sorry if I haven't read post properly but have you checked to make sure your pump diaphragm isn't on it's way out, when I found debri in my carbies it was from a fuel diaphragm which was cracked and perishing.

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

thank you guys. i just disconnected the carb fuel hose and it does push fuel through it. no i have not put mixed fuel in the cylinder to start it, to the contrary i blew air in there to dry it out cuz the spark plugs were wet. was that bad?
i need to take apart the fuel pump to visually inspect it though and change the fuel line.
anything else just let me know

 

[MickLovin]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

Wouldn't worry to much about the plugs until you have a water test, then check them after that. If they are wet, it could be from too rich a fuel mixture.

 

[Nordin]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

Check the fuelpump diaphrgm for crack. This will allow fuel to flow direct to the cyl. To rich fuel mixture.
Check for spark and at right time. The flywheelkey could be shared.
Set the engine at lowest idle positon.
Pull out the sparkplugs. Put a screwdriver in the top sparkplug hole.
Rotate the flywheel clockwise and push sligtly the screwdriver down. Stop when the piston has reach the TDC (the screwdriver will start to move down back down the cyl from upward moving.)
At this point the 0 mark at the flywheel shall point at 0 mark (or almost) at blockpointer.
If it is far away, the key is shared.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

Pic #2 shows the drop.Adjust it so it drops a bit more.
It can drop almost to touching the mid part.
If the hose is delaminating or falling apart, replace it.
The inside of the hose may be collapsing and not allowing fuel through.
I had the same problem with an 85hp.
It wouldn't fire no matter what I did.
I was trying to get it started and had tilted it up.
I hit the key and choke and it fired.
I shut it down real quick and tried it again and it started.
Then it would run no problem.
Only thing it wouldn't always start when cold.
So I'd have to tilt it up and it would cough/fire. Then start.

Another thing,If you've used Seafoam or any carb soak.
There might be an o-ring in the bottom of the needle/seat that can swell and shut off the fuel???

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

Nordin - I don't know what TDC is - is it when the cylinder is closed? Yesterday I blew air in the cylinder and noticed air leaking out the bottom in the water so I moved the fly wheel clockwise and it stopped. There were several turns and I guess the piston was moving up and down.
Is that what you mean?
I don't know where the 0 mark is on the fly wheel I will take a picture of it.

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

Jerry - I will take out the carb again to clean it after noticing for the 3rd time debris in the carb bowl. I will change the hose.
There is no O ring on the needle mine doesn't come with one, I will adjust the float to almost touching position - I had it closer but moved it up a bit - what does the float do in that almost touching position?
I understand the upside down and parallel adjustment closes and opens the needle when fuel bowl fills up.
I will try putting some fuel in the spark plug hole and tell you what it did.
When I checked for compression I did not know I had to ground the system by engaging the kill switch or by connecting the spark plugs to a good ground. A dealer told me I can damage the starting system if I don't.

I have a question - The fuel pump is pumping fuel should I still take it apart and inspect it completely???
Does it matter how strong the squirt is? Or as long as it moves fuel up it's ok?
When I was installing the power head back on after changing the exhaust gasket that was leaking water I added some sea foam (non spray) into the bottom if the head's exhaust hole that showed what I thought was the piston. Was that bad? I have more sea foam and have not used any. Should I ? How?? Where??

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

How big or small should the inline fuel filter be? Does it matter? Is there a special fuel filter I should be using for 2 stroke fuel that I use? I put one right before the carb and has a lot of debris that I rinsed off with more fuel and installed back on.

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

Any of the standard fuel filters for a 1/4" or 5/16" inside diameter fuel line should work. The motor ran before with the fuel pump, so it should be OK for now. It would be a good idea to take a look at it once you get the motor running again though. Right now you're just trying to get the motor to start. You've confirmed that you are getting fuel to the carburetor, so concentrate on getting the motor to fire.

 

[Nordin]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

Eddie, the TDC is when the top piston (#1) is in top of the cylinder. TDC means TOP DEAD CENTER (when the piston starts to move down).
There should be a mark on the flywheel (zero mark) then there should be a blockpointer (a little steelplate with several lines, one line is longer then the other this is the zeroline mark) in the front just above the carb close to the flywheel rim.

Now when you have back of the throttle to slowest idle and the timing is retarded as close to zero degrees, these marks, flywheel zero and blockpointer zero shall line up when #1 piston is at (TDC) top.

If they do not line up or almost line up (depends if the timing is retarded to zero) there is an issue with the flywheelkey.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle



Wallyworld, G-2 or G-12 Fram filter.
Always ground the plug wires when not hooked to a plug.
The wires I made up work great.
The "drop" allows more or less fuel into the carb.
Set the air screw at 1 and 1/4 turn out for inital adjustment.
Some set it at 1 some at less.Once it starts then adjust.
The level adjustment stops it when it's at the right level.
Not enough drop and it won't allow any fuel into the bowl.

Turning it over and watching the fuel from the pump,any steady stream is sufficent.
Remember it's a vacuum/pulse so the stream might not be real steady.
It's a real low pressure pump and won't flow a lot of fuel.
The pump, just make sure the diaphragm isin't split or have a hole.
Some think Seafoam is the answer to everything.
I don't. If you add anything to your fuel add an Ethanol stabilizer.

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

Looks like the slot in the flywheel might be OK. It doesn't have nice crisp sharp edges. Looks like it's been roughed up a bit. The flywheel key has taken a hit. It's not sheared off but could probably be replaced. It shouldn't have what looks like a step in it.

This is kind of what it should look like.

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

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[Eddie Rivera]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

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[Eddie Rivera]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

Hello guys I am back with test results.

-- Cleaned out carb again due to possible hose damage and adjusted the float again like Jerry said, I added all new fuel lines, 2 inline fuel filters, 1) coming out of the gas tank and 2) between the fuel pump and the carb. Now both look clean. Tested the fuel pump and it pumps just fine.
-- Nordin said maybe its a sheared flywheel key? that was exactly right!! took off the F/W and found the key damaged, i remember i was rushing to see it turn on after so many months of work and that childish move cost me this much more heart ache.
-- Checked TDC and i took a picture of the timing setting for your review.
-- checked for spark and it shows yellow possibly weak cuz of the day light or my tester from harbor freight.

--Note-- i put the damaged F/W key back on after a filed the edges of the F/W groove a bit and tried to turn it on again. I used the proper starting procedures, bulb was hard, shift handle on fast idle start, used choke only twice. It did not even cough once so i stopped cranking it after a good 4 cranks to avoid further damage and to wait and rely on you guys' wisdom and experience.
Remember i was checking for compression without grounding the plugs and at times without moving the shifter to idle start position, the plug wires were just hanging and S. plugs were off. I ordered a new F/W key and it comes on Wednesday.
---- So, now what? 1) Is timing off and whats next? Did i damage something else with my compression test in the starting circuit? What other tests can i perform in the electrical/ starting system without causing any more damage? I am stuck now!!!