85 Bayliner Capri - 125 Force Outboard - Very low speed

[MemoryMaker]

I just bought an 85 Bayliner Capri off Craigslist a couple weeks ago for $1500.

Pictures below?

When I test drove it, the guy I bought it from said that the low speed problem would be fixed if I fixed the skeg and prop.

I took my boat into the shop and had a new skeg welded on, the guy fixed my old prop, he replaced my impeller, and changed the fluids in the lower unit.

I took it out on the lake this weekend and I am still having speed issues. With 4 guys on the boat, I was only hitting about 15 mph at full throttle.

As far as RPMs, they stay around 2700 regardless if I am going full speed or idling.
Another problem I have is that sometimes it starts up right away and other times it takes a while to fire up.

What do you guys recommend that I do to address the speed, RPM issue, and starting issue given the following conditions:

1. This is the first boat I have ever owned and I do not have any experience working on cars or boats. But I do have some friends and family who could help me with repairs if I give them some direction.

2. I do not want to dump a bunch of money into this boat in order to fix these problems. I would rather just sell this one and get something else for around $2k-$3k that actually worked better. I would spend up to around $500 in repairs if I knew for sure it would fix the problem.

3. As you can see by the pictures, this is a decent boat (for the price I paid) but still is far from being in perfect condition. Ideally, I want this to be a reliable boat that fires up and can reach around 30mph. If I can fix these two problems, I will probably replace the old vinyl and carpet and buy a cheap cd player since it came with 4 speakers. But other than that, I don?t want to spend much more money on this thing.

From what I have read online it seems like it may be a good idea to start by cleaning the carbs and then synchronize the carbs and timing. Is that a good place to start?

Thanks in advance for the help.

See pictures below:

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 85 Bayliner Capri - 125 Force Outboard - Very low speed

First do a compression spark test.That ok.Post your results.
Then the fuel system.Check vent line on the tank.Then replace all hoses from the tank to the carb.Squeezie too.Any inline connectors replace.
Rebuild the fuel pump.
Then go for a ride.
What pitch prop do you have on your motor?That could be a problem.J

 

[MemoryMaker]

Re: 85 Bayliner Capri - 125 Force Outboard - Very low speed

Ok so I took my boat over to my cousins today to do some work.

Did the compression test. Each cylinder was around 150.

The fuel system was recently replaced by the person who I bought the boat from. We visually inspected the connections and hoses and everything looked fine.

We replaced all the spark plugs. He was able to make the boat idle around 900 RPMs. It was previously idling around 2,000 or so. He also changed the air to fuel ratio. He said there was too much fuel and not enough air. Just with those changes, we got it to reach almost 4,000 RPMs, was previously only reaching around 2,700.

I think that with these changes we will be able to go faster than 15mph. But I doubt what we did today has fully resolved the low speed problem. How many RPMS should I be able to reach?

As far as the prop, it says on it: 131/4R17MWC. Does this sound like the right prop for my boat?

 

[MemoryMaker]

Re: 85 Bayliner Capri - 125 Force Outboard - Very low speed

So I replaced all the fuel components last week and replaced the fuel pump diaphragm. Also followed the instructions on the sticky about synchronizing the timing and carbs.

I took it on the lake Sunday and got it up to 4,000 RPMS in neutral and roughly 3,000 rpms in gear. It got up to 20 mph pretty quickly and up to 25 mph after 5 minutes or so at WOT. This is better than the 15 mph I was getting previously.

I think it should be able to go faster, and I am open to more suggestions about what I can do. Any help is much appreciated.

Here is info about my prop:

1) Performance issue you are trying to correct.
Speed and rpms.
2) Current prop manufacturer, model, aluminum or stainless as a minimum.
Aluminum. 131/4R17MWC
3) Current prop diameter and pitch (required).
131/4R17MWC.
4) Wide open throttle RPM and speed with an average load (very helpful)
4,000 / 25mph
5) Engine/drive make, model, year, and HP
Force 125 HP 1985
6) Boat make model, year, length and weight
Bayliner Capri 1900 1985 18.5 feet long and weight is around 1800 with no passengers

Interior was shot when I got the boat. I put some new vinyl on the bow seats, just went to Joanne?s fabrics and spent $100 on the material. I?ll do the seat backs once I can figure out how to get them off. Attached are some before and after pictures of the bow seats.

 

[MemoryMaker]

Re: 85 Bayliner Capri - 125 Force Outboard - Very low speed



Here are the pics...

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 85 Bayliner Capri - 125 Force Outboard - Very low speed

Everybody likes to diss those Bayliners but they did make some very pretty hulls. 25 MPH is too slow, you should be hitting about 5000RPM at wide open throttle and at least 27-30 MPH.

If you are using the factory speedometer, they are usually notoriously inaccurate. If you have access to a hand held GPS, use that. Your prop is a 17 pitch by 13 1/4 inch diameter and should be about right for the hull.

It is difficult to tell from the last photo but it looks like the engine is sitting too low on the transom. Ideally, with the trim set so the cavitation plate is level with the bottom, the plate should be at a minimum even with the bottom of the vee and even about one inch higher than the vee. This will add 1 or 2 MPH A stainless prop of the same size will also add about 2 MPH.

using the stop screw on the bottom of the timing tower, idle speed should be set at 700-750 IN Forward Gear in the water.

With 150 PSI compression, the engine is healthy and should run better than 4000. it should not take 5 minutes to get up to top speed. Check the hull for excess weight, a hook in the bottom, and retained water inside the floor.

Are you using the trim or does it have power trim/tilt? Typically, If it has trim, you tuck it in toward the transom to accelerate from a stop. as the boat gets on plane, you trim out--away from the transom until it just starts to ventilate then tap back down slightly. If it does not have power trim, you set the tilt bar in the hole that sets the cavitation plate as close to parallel with the bottom to start. The experiment with different positions to determine which setting gives the best performance.

 

[MemoryMaker]

Re: 85 Bayliner Capri - 125 Force Outboard - Very low speed

Thanks Frank.

I do have a power trim. I have played around with it but it really doesnt make much of a difference with the speed.

Ill download a speedometer app on my phone and check its accuracy this weekend.

It is idling now ar about 800 RPMS. Tried setting it lower but we had problems keeping an idle. Also, with the lower idle the motor would stop running when we put the boat into gear.

You said a 'hooh' in the bottom...do you mean hole? If so, there are now holes and no excess weight. Everytime I pull the plug out there is no water coming out so I am assuming I am not taking on water.

I dont mind taking it into a shop to get it diagnosed by a pro, I know a guy that will give me a good deal. I just would like to give him some sort of direction, but I dont even know what to tell him.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 85 Bayliner Capri - 125 Force Outboard - Very low speed

Late at night and I didn't see it. I meant hook. This is a concave area forward of the transom that tends to keep the bow down. This reduces speed and affects handling negatively.
If you take some sort of long straightedge and hold it along the bottom from transom forward, there should be no meaningful gaps.

Some specialty hulls have a hook built-in for performance purposes, but the bottom of your Bayliner should be essentially flat.

Too much weight in the bow will also make the hull plow and reduce speed.

Did the owner tell you the correct starting procedure? If you just try to start it, sometimes it will and sometimes it will take a bit of cranking. Depending upon your control box, pull out the whole handle or push in on the rubber center button and push forward the control handle as far as it will go. This disables the shift and allows the throttle to crack open a bit. You will have already pumped the bulb to fill the carbs. Now, push in the key and hold it to choke the engine while you turn it to start. The engine should start quickly and run at about 1500-2000 RPM. This is fast idle/warm-up. After a couple of seconds or so, pull back the handle to vertical and speed will drop. push in the handle or, the button will automatically pop out again. Now, when you advance the throttle lever, the engine will go into gear than accelerate. Always snap it into gear quickly to avoid wear on the drive dogs.

 

[MemoryMaker]

Re: 85 Bayliner Capri - 125 Force Outboard - Very low speed

Thanks again Frank...

After work I am going to check to see if there is a hook. I dont think that there is too much weight in the bow. We are able to start the boat fine, but sometimes I do a fast idle/warm-up.

I mentioned earlier that the boat pulls hard to the right if I take my hands off the wheel. From what I have read on this forum, it sounds like the trim tab by the prop may need to be adjusted. Can adjusting the trim tab also help with RPMS or speed? Or does it simply help it from pulling the boat?

Here is a picture of the motor, is that the trim tab? It looks a lot different than other photos I have seen online.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 85 Bayliner Capri - 125 Force Outboard - Very low speed

Yeah. On the chrysler and Force engines the whole exhaust snout moves and is the trim tab.

If the boat pulls to the right with hands off the wheel, that means the engine is turning to the left. So to counter this, loosen both bolts on the snout and move the front of the snout to the left. This should put a left force on the back of the engine and move the front to the right a bit.

Understand that the trim tab will not be effective at all speeds so set it for the speed at which you want the boat to track straight.

This will not affect speed at all.

As I have said, with a 125 on an 18 foot hull, a 17 pitch prop should be about correct but the 125 was never a particularly strong engine. (Because of the bigger cylinder bore, the 120 was better) You may need to drop to a 15 pitch prop to get the RPM up. This may or may not increase speed though. See: Sometimes dropping down in pitch, while it will increase engine RPM will decrease speed. So, if you know someone with a 15 pitch or if your local marina has a test prop to borrow, try that first before buying. Lacking that, buy a cheap one on the auction to test and/or use as a spare.

If you absolutely can't find one, send me a private message: I have two. These 13 inch diameter props fit in a 15 dollar USPS priority mail flat rate shipping box so shipping won't kill you.

That said, the lower unit ratio on your engine is around 1.76 to 1. If you can find a relatively inexpensive 2 to 1 ratio lower from a 90 HP Chrysler or Force, or even a lower from a later model force with 1.95 to 1 gears, it will really wake up that engine. Any lower unit (with a couple of exceptions) from 1979 Chrysler three or four cylinder engine up to 1993 Force will fit, but you do need to be careful that the drive shaft length is the same. If you want to do this, see if you can find a knowledgeable Chrysler/Force fan near you.

 

[MemoryMaker]

*New Pictures* Re: 85 Bayliner Capri - 125 Force Outboard - Very low speed

*New Pictures* Re: 85 Bayliner Capri - 125 Force Outboard - Very low speed

Ok just adjusted the trim tab/exhaust snout. The boat was pulling really hard to the right before, so I moved the front of the tab to the left. Does this look correct? See the picture below.

Also, it looks like one of my spark plugs is not getting a spark.:facepalm: See the picture below of the clean spark.

One of the wires on the coil wasn?t totally clipped into place. So I properly attached this wire and my fingers are crossed that this will give spark to the cylinder. If it is still not getting a spark, what could be the reason for the clean plug? There was no water on it, but I haven?t been in the water since Sunday, not sure if that matters or not.

There is no hook on the bottom of the boat. I?ll see if I can borrow a 15 pitch prop and try it out. I?d be willing to try and get my hand on a lower unit with a different ratio, but that would be more of a last resort for me.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: *New Pictures* Re: 85 Bayliner Capri - 125 Force Outboard - Very low speed

Re: *New Pictures* Re: 85 Bayliner Capri - 125 Force Outboard - Very low speed

As far as the snout: Only you can tell if it is correct and you will need to experiment with the setting to get it correct.

The clean sparkplug could be due to a number of reasons: No spark, no gas, water in cylinder steam cleaning it. This is also the smoking gun for your loss of speed and idle problems. I thought you had said earlier that you had checked spark, but upon re-reading I see that you only said that you changed the plugs. So, if that is a new plug, then water in the cylinder is unlikely. Most probably no spark or no fuel. If you are not getting spark, it is most likely the CD box and those are not too expensive.

I would not call the lower unit change a last resort. It is relatively simple and if you are lucky enough to find a reasonably priced one on the auction, it won't cost too much. I always put the 2 to 1 ratio on my engines. I understand that this is your first boat and you don't want to put too much money into it. I only threw out the lower unit change as something to think about down the line.

 

[MemoryMaker]

Re: *New Pictures* Re: 85 Bayliner Capri - 125 Force Outboard - Very low speed

Re: *New Pictures* Re: 85 Bayliner Capri - 125 Force Outboard - Very low speed

Thanks again Frank for the insights.

I think the issue is that it is not getting spark but I am taking it to my cousins after work today to confirm. If in fact it is not getting spark, what's the best way to move forward? Should I buy and instal a new CD box and hope that works? Or are there any tests I can do to make sure the CD box is the issue?

Would this be the proper steps to take:

1. Check to see if there is spark
2. If not, then check all the wires.
3. If wires are good, swap the coils, if the 4th cylinder sparks after the swap, I need a new coil
4. If still not getting spark, swap the modules/CDI boxes, if the 4th cylinder sparks after the swap, I need a new module/CDI box

Also cleaning the carbs today after work...

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 85 Bayliner Capri - 125 Force Outboard - Very low speed

Yep! That's a 4 step plan before buying parts.

 

[MemoryMaker]

Re: 85 Bayliner Capri - 125 Force Outboard - Very low speed

The results of the 4 step plan: Half of the CDI box is fried resulting in the 4th cylinder not getting a spark.

I am picking up a new box today (paying $175 at Shipwreck Used Parts) and putting it in after work.

I am curious how much difference performance is going to be now that all four cylinders will be firing. To be honest, the boat ran pretty good with just the three cylinders. It just wouldn't get passed 3,000 RPMS at WOT or 25mph. I am crossing my fingers that I will be able to hit 45 mph at WOT. Is that being unreasonable?

Another question...you had said that "Only you can tell if it is correct and you will need to experiment with the setting to get it correct." I understand this. But my question is: Did I adjust the snout in the correct direction given that the boat is pulling hard to the right? As you can see by the photo above, I moved the front of the snout to the left...

You da man Frank!

 

[ezmobee]

Re: 85 Bayliner Capri - 125 Force Outboard - Very low speed

I am curious how much difference performance is going to be now that all four cylinders will be firing.

A TON! My buddy's Evinrude dropped a cylinder last summer due to a broken plug wire. Still ran smooth and sounded pretty much the same but had NO power. We fixed the wire and it was like 50% better. If your Bayliner isn't waterlogged, I don't think 45 is out of the question. 40 for sure.

 

[emoney]

Re: 85 Bayliner Capri - 125 Force Outboard - Very low speed

I'm not Frank, but yes, you turned the front of the snout to the left and that should help. He's saying, however, that you won't know if it's farth enough or not until you get it on the water and find out. Frank's the guy on these old Chryslers and Forces. He's helped me tremendously!

 

[tdough21]

Re: 85 Bayliner Capri - 125 Force Outboard - Very low speed

I have the same exact boat as you in excellent condition and top speed is 43 - 45mph depending on conditions. My boat also pulls to the right and I never could figure it out. I moved the snout all directions but always pulled to the right. Once you get the boat on a plane, trim the motor up and you will notice the pull goes away and steering is much easier.

 

[MemoryMaker]

Re: 85 Bayliner Capri - 125 Force Outboard - Very low speed

So my cousin just installed the new CDI box....now one of the other cylinders is firing inconsistently ...gonna replace the other CDI box and hope that solves the problem...kinda of a bummer!!!

 

[MemoryMaker]

Re: 85 Bayliner Capri - 125 Force Outboard - Very low speed

So after installing two new CDI boxes, all four cylinders are now firing. Took it on the lake today, there is good news and bad news. Good news is that after adjusting the exhaust snout, the boat no longer pulls to the right. The bad news is that speed is still an issue. With just two people on the boat today, it topped out at 28 MPH. With 5 people on the boat, it topped out at 11 MPH. I dont know what to do at this point. I really dont think this is a fuel issue. It runs really good, its just slow.