Foam or not to foam

[Homerr]

Seems like I've asked this one before, but the search didn't turn up anything...<br /><br />26ft. flybridge...<br /><br />Should I put any foam in it? Originally it didn't have any.<br /><br />I'm almost ready to put the plywood down and seal the floor. Just wondering if I should toss any foam in there first.<br /><br />H.

 

[DJ]

Re: Foam or not to foam

Homerr,<br /><br />Boy, that's a tough one. The decision is strictly yours. <br /><br />I doubt that a bilge full of foam would hold a 26 footer in a level state, if swamped. I could be wrong-heck, I'll even admit it. <br /><br />I think for my own "piece of mind", I would do it.<br /><br />If nothing else, it will make the boat a bit quieter.<br /><br />Foam installation can be tricky-especially the two part types.<br /><br />There have been a lot of threads on this board on the subject. Do some searching before diving into it. There were some great tips on "two-part" foam applications..

 

[Homerr]

Re: Foam or not to foam

Thanks John...<br /><br />I'm undecided. I was looking at US composite's web site for the foam, and if I read it correctly, I would need, well, a boat-load to fill the area I need to fill!<br /><br />20 ft inner stringer, and a 16 ft outer. There is LOTS of space between them (approx 14" each side)<br /><br />Then there's the question of what density of foam to use?<br /><br />H.

 

[bayman]

Re: Foam or not to foam

One thing that some builders have done to cut costs is put sealed plastic containers in place and then foam them in.<br /><br />You have to make sure that your foam won't eat the plastic you choose to use.<br /><br />2 liter bottles, 5 gallon jugs etc... can take up space and they provide excellent flotation. As long as the lid is on tight, you just foam them in place.<br /><br />You save money and get the desired results.<br /><br />As for foaming in a boat this large... make sure you have a place in the bilge for water to drain to and a way to pump that water out. What you don't want is to have water collecting in the bottom of the boat and turning the foam into a big mess.<br /><br />- bayman

 

[Homerr]

Re: Foam or not to foam

Yes, I cut drain holes in the stringers etc. and I'll be running at least 2 bilge pumps, fore and aft. I tend to double up on everything.<br /><br />Question is, do I even need to bother with the foam with a boat my size? Like I say, the factory didn't have it (not to say they built it right in the first place)<br /><br />I finally got the search to work right, and I have been readng the forum's past posts for a while, and it seems the foam is a big pain to use and keep dry. <br /><br />With the drain holes I have cut, I won't really have any 'air-tight compartments' per say. <br />The only thing the boat had originally is a 'double floor' (as I call it) above the stringers. The compartment is about 3ft by 5ft. One person said this may be for flotation?<br /> <br />The compartments were NOT airtight. In fact, nothing was. I don't know how you could make it airtight anyways.<br /><br />I like the coke bottle idea. I could stuff A LOT of those under there, but this boat is heavy! 26ft. Flybrindge? Has to be 8,000 lb. +? Maybe more?<br />How many bottles would I need to make a differance?<br /><br />H.

 

[bayman]

Re: Foam or not to foam

Good thinking about doubling up on the bilge pumps. Everyone should do that. I'm going to be staggering mine. One will be in the very bottom. If that one gets overcome, others will be up higher to start working.<br /><br />I can't remember what the USCG regs say, but once you get to a certain length they don't require foam. <br /><br />I'm only using foam on my boat for insulation and to avoid condensation. When complete my boat should be about 13,000 pounds and flotation foam won't do me any good. <br /><br />Your boat is likely in the same category.<br /><br />If I were to go by the USCG recommendations I should have at least 1 or 2 bulkheads though. So far I have 1 small one and I've not yet determined if I will have any more. There will be an engine partition of course.<br /><br />I haven't seen your boat but, if you could fit them below then some 50 gallon plastic drums or something smaller sealed up really well may help.<br /><br />Depending on if you have fresh water or saltwater, a gallon of water weighs about 8 pounds or somewhere around there.<br /><br />For each 50 gallons you can displace, you prevent around 400 pounds of water from coming in and trying to sink your boat. If you could fit 5 of these 50 gallon drums, for example, then you would displace around 2000 pounds of water from getting in and dragging you down.<br /><br />Someone said it like this....It doesn't matter how much your boat weighs, but how much water can get in and stay there.<br /><br />- bayman

 

[Homerr]

Re: Foam or not to foam

Thanks Bayman...<br /><br />I think you're right about the length vs. foam. When I was working at Marlin in the late 80's, I seem to remember only the smaller boats getting foam (20ft and less)<br /><br />If I have that much water coming in, then I'd already be on my liferaft anyways! <br /><br />Great idea on the higher/lower pumps. I will be running a 2000 gph in the back, and probably a 1500 in front. With your high/low idea, I might run another one in the back.<br /><br />H.

 

[crab bait]

Re: Foam or not to foam

after 21 or 22 foot ,, no foam is required by the uscg... <br /><br />i wouldn't do it , personially...<br /><br />it's arguoius, expensive, an would rot your work ina heart beat if'n it don't drain perfectly..<br />plus you probaly couldn't add enuff for to work,anyway.. plus it's not required..

 

[Homerr]

Re: Foam or not to foam

Yes, I agree Bait...<br /><br />No foam is the way I think. Good thing too, cause the 17/08 Biaxial really drinks the resin! I need to cut costs as much as I can. <br />I still need to find an outdrive and/or complete engine package. <br />If I can get a good complete engine package used at or near the cost of a new outdrive, then I might go that route rather than just a drive.<br /><br />I got a good engine with it (I think) but you know how it goes with buying a used engine. You don't know it's history.<br /><br />Now I might have an opportunity staring me right in the face I never thought of till now.<br /><br />We use a similiar type of foam on our products where I work for sealing out moisture. In fact, we use to submerge our products in water over night to make sure they sealed correctly. <br /><br />It's also an expanding 2 part foam. I am curious if it's the same stuff. Does anyone know the brand names and technical names of the foam?<br /><br />If it is the same, I still wouldn't mind putting a little in the cab area just to help with the sound. I can get this stuff practically free at our cost since we use so much of it.<br /><br />H.

 

[brokeboater]

Re: Foam or not to foam

homerr, i used the 2 part expanding foam from us composites. i had no problems, just remember if you do use it to mix by weight and not by volume. my boat is a 21' and it was put back in because thats what was there from the factory. as stated in a previous post, it will provide some sound deadoning<sp> benefit and if you were to hit some underwater object that knocked a hole thru the hull where the foam was it could keep out some water. buying enough to keep as big a boat as yours could run up the budget though. to foam or not to foam.......

 

[Homerr]

Re: Foam or not to foam

Well, like I say. If the stuff at my job is the same, then I might do it. If not..Forget it.<br /><br />Now the 'double floor' is still a mystery..<br />A 3'x5' chamber doesn't seem like it would carry very much buoyancy. I really don't want to put that back in. Seems like a waste of glass, resin, and space.<br /><br />Look at the 4th. picture down on the right at my link below to see the old flooring.<br /><br />H.

 

[Firewood]

Re: Foam or not to foam

I had the same question about my boat. Should I foam or not. I asked a buddy of mine which owns/builds offshore racing boats (Hustler Boats). He told me its not worth adding all the weight and cost. He said he uses foam only where he needs to..around fuel tanks, water tanks.<br /><br />So I didn't foam between the stringers, but I will foam my tanks and the ouside of my live well and fish box for insulation.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Foam or not to foam

hi homerr,<br />i don't think i'd go with the foam either.... allot more minuses, than plusses....<br />Was/is the mystery floor for occupant elevation ????

 

[Homerr]

Re: Foam or not to foam

I have no idea what's it's for Bondo. It's a mystery for sure.<br /><br />I can't see any purpose for it at all.<br /><br />There is a deck right above that is attatched to this mystery floor via some 2x4 posts. I see no reason why the factory couldn't have simply made those posts a little longer and leave the extra flooring out.<br />It's nothing more than a 'catch-all' under there anyways. I don't know what else a person would want to put under there. Unless of course you made frequent trips to Columbia, or South of the border..LOL...JUST KIDDING!<br /><br />if it's a strength issue for the sides of the boat, I can accomplish that with some bulkheads, of which were never in the boat in the first place. <br />I think I'll put a bulkhead in front of the engine bay to somewhat seal it off, and another right behind the cabin. There's a ton of room in this monster, so I have a lot of options.<br /><br />I want to take advantage of the space between my stringers. I put cross bracing between them at about 4 ft apart, so I have 4 compartments at 14" x 4' on each side. Lots of space to make some secret hiding cubby holes. Would make a nice place 'for that last fish'...LOL<br /><br />FIREWOOD:<br /><br />I read somewhere (I think on this forum) that foaming around a tank is bad news because of trapping moisture? <br />I had a pro look at my boat before I started, and that's the first thing he noticed. My tank wasn't foamed at all.<br />I'm planning on an aluminum (or poly) tank, so moisture isn't an issue. I would feel more comfortable foaming the tank anyways. Better insulated, and I don't want 80 gallons of fuel bouncing around.<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />H.

 

[Firewood]

Re: Foam or not to foam

same here I'm running dual 55 gallon poly tanks.<br />I'll be foaming them in. I could see it rotting out steel tanks thou. Good advise.

 

[Homerr]

Re: Foam or not to foam

Firewood..<br /><br />Did you put those tanks in yourself?<br /><br />Where'd ya get them?<br /><br />I sure wouldn't mind going to a poly tank if the price is right.<br /><br />H.

 

[snapperbait]

Re: Foam or not to foam

I bought a couple poly tanks and it said on the directions "do not foam tanks in place", something about expantion or something... I'll look for the "destructions" tommorow and give ya the full details....

 

[Homerr]

Re: Foam or not to foam

I was wondering about that Snapper,<br /><br />Those tanks are fairly flexible.<br /><br />So how is a person suppose to secure those tanks?<br /><br />Guess I should go look at my new Bayliner. It has a poly tank. I'm almost sure it doesn't have foam around it. It's just glassed in tight.<br /><br />H.

 

[bayman]

Re: Foam or not to foam

I'm a bit belated on replying but I want to address the issue of putting some bilge pumps low and backups higher.<br /><br />There are 3 good reasons that I see anyway.<br /><br />1. If the bilge area down low gets really sludgy all of the sudden your bilge pumps down low may fail. If all of the bilge pumps are down really low in the grime then they all might fail.<br /><br />2. If the pumps down low are overwhelmed then the pumps up higher kick in.<br /><br />3. Why run all of your pumps at the same time and put a drain on batteries etc.. if you don't have to. Only run your backups if you need them.

 

[Homerr]

Re: Foam or not to foam

Darn good idea Bayman!<br /><br />Now see, that sort of tip could go in my proposed 'Tips and Tricks' forum!<br /><br />I'm a pump fanatic. Can't have too many in my opinion... I think I'll run them just like you do.<br /><br />H.