Looking for Advice on Buying a Sewing Machine for Vinyl

[Taylor_T]

I am about to take on a new project replacing the carpet and seating in my boat. I'm going to be doing the upholstery myself and am looking for a sewing machine that will do the job.

I'm a bit lost on what type of sewing machine to look for.

What features do I need to look for in a sewing machine? I've heard that vintage sewing machines are good, but why? Also, the old singers seem to be popular but are the only sewing machines I should consider?

I found a couple sewing machines near by that I thought looked like they would be good, would these be good machines?

1. The first is a Vintage WHITE model 162 (listed for $75)

2. The second is a WHITE model 940 (Listed for $40)

I am planning on mainly doing french seams like so:

Any advice would be great!

 

[Scott Danforth]

Woodonglass and bruceb58 should be along shortly to comment

 

[jbcurt00]

bajaunderground might too

 

[Woodonglass]

The BEST machine for upholstery work is one like your last pic. It's a Walking Foot machine made by Sailrite and even a used one will run a minimum of $400. Myself and several others here on the forum have done MORE than acceptable upholstery jobs using similar machines to those you have pictured. The issue with "HOME" style machines is...they Poke more holes in the vinyl than the industrial machines and they have trouble feeding 4-6 layers of vinyl which results in irregular stitch length. 4-5 stitches per inch is optimum for vinyl and Home machines typically only yield 6 spi. The other issue is thread diameter. The larger the better. a V-92 thread is the smallest I'd use and a #19 needle. Home machines can use these but again feeding the material and PUNCHING power is not that great. You can do it but much harder and more tedious. Having said all this, if this is going to be a ONE TIME effort then I'd say go for it. We'll help you get thru any questions you might have and the vinyl WILL stay together for a good long time. If you can find a Singer 15-91 from the 40's or 50's buy it. It's as close to a commercial machine as you can get and they can be had for anywhere between $25 to $150. Direct drive Motor so punching power is really good. I have 3 of them and they'll handle 6 layers of vinyl very well.

 

[Taylor_T]

Thanks for the insight wood! I did some looking and pulled the trigger on a 1948 15-91 singer on ebay for around $125. Looks to be in nice condition and they said it runs. I know if I waited around I could probably find a better deal, but I am ready to be done with shopping for sewing machines! I'll test it out on some scrap vinyl when it gets here next week. Any tips on getting the 15-91 set up and dialed in to sew vinyl when it gets here?

 

[Jarcher3]

How can you tell if it a walking foot machine?

I looked up a little online and there is attachments for walking foot. and there are a few singers and all on craigslist what is a indicator of a good machine?

 

[Taylor_T]

Jarcher3 , I don't know much. I'm just learning like you. But, I have learned a bit about a few things over the past couple days...

The walking foot has a pretty distinct look. Here is a pic of a "walking" foot:

Here's a video of a walking foot in action:

Here's an example of what a normal presser foot might look like:

I have read that those walking foot attachments don't do too well. I've never used one myself but it sounds like they might not work that great.

As for the singers, the reason the 15-91 is such a great heavy duty machine is that it is directly driven by the motor, instead of being belt driven. It gives the machine more punching power, as wood was saying above.

For instance, the 15-90 and the 15-91 look almost identical. However, what you want to look for is if it has a belt driving the machine, or if it is directly driving it.

Here is some pics of what I mean.

Direct drive motor on 15-91:

Belt driven 15-90:

Here's a diagram of the 15-91, hopefully it will help you identify it. Also note that if the tension indicator thing is on the front, then not a 15-91 and it's a different model:

From what I know, most of the other singer machines around this time are either belt driven or actually use the manual foot thing/hand crank if it's older. I'm not sure if any of the other vintage singers are any good, for all I know they'll do great too. But they won't be as powerful as the 15-91 with the gear drive motor.

Other than that I'm not sure if I can really say what indicators of a good machine are. I just don't know enough.

 

[Prepmech]

Following this thread. I am looking for something similar.

Anything to look out for when shopping for a 15-91? Any additional supplies I need to be in the market for as well?

 

[kcassells]

LOL...Best machine out there. Wog hooked this up for me. I rewired it and am just waiting for more progress on my boat to put it to use! Came off of Craigslist for @ $60.00 bucks if I recall. All parts are readily available.

 

[Woodonglass]

The absolute KEY thing to learn is proper thread tensioning. My experience with the 15-91 tells me that using V-92 thread and a #19 needle sewing thru multiple layers of vinyl requires an upper tension of about 6-7. The Bobbin tension should be set so that when you "Yo-Yo" the bobbin case with the bobbin in it, it will drop about 1 1/2". It stays the same almost always. Using newspaper under the vinyl when sewing with the vinyl down, helps it feed better. Just stitch thru the paper and then tear it off. Make sure the Keep the Machine oiled at least one drop per day at each oiling point. Especially when using it a lot. Keep the machine CLEAN. Just like a gun. Walking foot attachments for a home machine work well with fabric but...NOT with vinyl. Don't waste your money. In some cases you may need to help feed the vinyl by pulling on the backside of the needle. Don't get carried away or your stitch length will get wacky.

You can get a manual for the machine online here...http://ismacs.net/singer_sewing_machine_company/manuals/15-91.pdf
Repair Manual here...http://parts.singerco.com/IPinstManuals/15-91.pdf

 

[Corjen1]

WoG is the sewing machine whisperer!! He sorted me out with my 15-91 as well!!! Great Machines!!

I did my whole boat with a 53' Morse 4300 zig zag and the 49' 15-91....

1953 Morse 4300 Zig Zag, wish I hadnt sold this machine.....



1949 Singer 15-91



Walking Foot Juki-592




Someone asked about other accessories... a piping foot is a must if your stuff needs piping.

Good luck with your project!!

 

[bruceb58]

Consew 226R-2 walking foot machine. $300 on eBay. I replaced the motor with a servo motor so I had better control at slow speeds. That was $100 and sold the old motor for nearly as much.

If you are going to be doing canvas work, you need a walking foot machine like this or the Juki 592 above. You need reverse to lock down the stitch. Do not buy a machine without reverse.

If you have to pull on the vinyl to get the stitch length to be the proper length...guess what...you are not using the proper tool for the job! Pros use walking foot machines for upholstery and canvas work.

 

[Woodonglass]

Another thing to remember is the thicker your material the LIGHTER your preset foot pressure it's the knob on top of the machine above the needle bar This really helps with feeding the vinyl thru but hard to remember to do if you're struggling with getting feeding and less likely to have to pull The Singer feed better than any of the home machines I've used you can shim the feed dogs to raise em up and make it feed even better If you want to do this for a part time job then as I stated before a Walikjng Foot is for sure the machine to buy With patienc and persistence you can find em for $300 but more often than not you'll pay $500+ Let us know if we can help further A zipper foot is another must have attachment

 

[bruceb58]

If you buy a quality used walking foot machine for $500 plus, you can do your project and sell it when you are done for what you paid for it. You also avoid all the hassles that are being described. No shimming of feed dogs, no newspaper, no adjusting of presser foot pressure...

 

[Woodonglass]

Boat covers and Canvas work is a LOT different than seat and side panel upholstery. When dealing with LARGE pieces of Canvas the weight and bulk of the fabric absolutely requires the feeding power of a Walking Foot. This is not the case with small pieces of upholstery vinyl

I just finished this pontoon seat using the 15-91 since my Walking foot was in the shop. The seat turned out great and I never had any hassles. Never had to "Pull" the vinyl to get her to feed, and the stitches were tight, and very consistent for the Semi-felled seams. The hassles usually only occur, as I previously stated, if and when you sew with the vinyl side down, i.e. upside down stitching when doing pleats. When sewing with the cloth backing on the vinyl against the machine base, the 15-91 will feed just fine if presser foot is adjusted properly. Practice before doing the final work and in no time you'll have the hang of it. I've sewn many upholstery jobs with my 15-91 in the past few years and NONE have failed or been returned for warranty work.




The above pic shows the top stitching done on the 15-91 for the Semi Felled seams. (6spi) and it was exactly the same as what was on the old factory sewn seats.

As I originally stated the WF IS the best way to go, but for a One time shot at upholstery the 15-91 will get it done nicely.

But again...The Walking Foot is the machine to have...
IF you can afford one,
IF you can find one
IF you want to continue to do upholstery work for others in the future OR
IF you have the cash to lay out for a period of time.

For a One Time upholstery job the 15-91 would be my choice of machine. I used a LOT of different models before I discovered the 15-91, Sure glad I did. I use mine a LOT, and know of many others here on the forum that have used one with GREAT success, and very few hassles when doing their upholstery work on their boats.

Having Said ALL this...I really really REALLY Like my Walking Foot machine and use her every chance I get!!!!
Sure wish I had a servo motor but...that might be coming soon.
.

 

[Taylor_T]

Wow Woodonglass, that seat looks GREAT! Amazing work. That is actually almost the exact style of seat I am planning on putting in my boat. Do you mind sharing how I would want to go about doing a seat like that?

My boat isn't a pontoon, but I'm swapping the back to back seats for a wrap around bench and a sundeck and I am making the bench basically like pontoon seats. This is the general wrap-around style of seating I'm going for (not the same colors, but this does a good job of showing the basic style of seats):

Is the base for that seat just a rectangular piece of plywood? How much does the foam hang over the seat base (if at all)?

I'm particularly interested in how you structured the foam so that the seat is raised a bit under your knees, and how you achieved the seam at the transition. Do you just use thicker foam on the edge of the seat and try to get the seam as close to that transition as you can?

Also, any tips on getting the seat cover to be TIGHT like yours is?

Sorry I have so many questions! That seat just looks SO good! It's basically exactly what I'm going for.

My 15-91 shipped out earlier today and should be here by next Thursday. If I had enough money to buy a walking foot industrial machine I definitely would, but I gotta keep some of my money for the rest of the project lol. Besides I'm just planning on doing my boat and probably won't do much else with it when I'm done. After seeing that seat I'm definitely sold on how capable of a machine it is, although I have a feeling the operator might hold it back a bit..

 

[Taylor_T]

Hey Corjen1, just wanted to shout out and say thanks for documenting that Crowline interior restoration! Found the link in your bio. There is some great information in there. And clever work on the curved pieces in the bow.

You guys know the feeling when you just cannot stop thinking about your project? Yeah, that's where I'm at right now. It's a bit of an obsession. Can't wait to start!

 

[Woodonglass]

The seat is a two part foam seat. Rectangular Plastic base but plywood would work too. The foam on the front is about 1" thicker than the back and is shaped to follow the middle seam line. There's an extra piece of vinyl sewn to the inner seam which allows you to pull it down and staple it to the base to make it conform to the contours of the foam. You then pull the vinyl over the rear portion of the foam and staple to the underside of the base. The side piece are cut to conform to the side contour and then pulled over the ends and stapled to the underside of the base. If you measure everything correctly and make good patterns. The sewing is the easy part. If you're building from scratch...You need to research cutting foam with an electric carving knife, and also how to make your patterns using clear plastic and a magic marker. Pretty basic stuff but something you have to study a bit. If you want some links to some good videos on all of this. PM me and i'll provide you with them.