Winter refit - transom

[Willyclay]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Not sick, you are just highly motivated! Most of us settle for repairing our project boats in order to have a serviceable boat at a reasonable cost. Some even restore them to the showroom condition or better. You and oops! are committed to re-engineering the boat into something significantly different than the original. I am most impressed. Thanks for taking the time to post such great details and pictures. Hope you exceed your expectations!

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Thanks

Really, I'm just trying to get the boat I want at a reasonable cost... although I suspect if I added up the time and money I've spent on this boat since I got it, I would be close to the cost of a new boat... but then I'd have to modify that one too, to be just what I want.

My ideas and schedule are aggressive, but fortunately I've had this work in mind since I started last fall. This weekend I hope to finish the structure at the transom and proceed forward... the bulk of the forward work is just putting in new ribs and bulkheads - there's a little demolition left to go, plus at least one round of grinding the interior, before I can start on the new cap. But it's going to be a simple one, nothing fancy, and I'm hoping it won't take more than a month to do.

We'll see. I'll post pics of the whole boat sometime this weekend or on Monday, so you guys can see what's going on.

Erik

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Okay, I promise I'll take pics tonight.

I spent part of the weekend being sick, then I got a lot of cleanup of my work space and the boat done the next day, including removing all but a quarter of the remaining top cap and rail.

Then I did some grinding, cleaning with xylene, and glassed in my vacuum bagged bulkhead... I took a lot of care to make sure it had 32 oz. of glass per side, no bubbles, basically a super strong piece of composite panel.

I used a template to make sure it was exactly the right size, too.

I puttied it in place, checked with a level to make sure it was settled into the hull properly.

I checked to make sure it was vertical too, again with the level.

I put 3 layers of 12 oz. biax fabric tabs on each side.. long layers on the aft side, shorter ones for the front where the bulkhead met the stringers, including vertical tabs running along the stringers.

I carefully applied resin with a paintbrush and removed bubbles with the tip. This let me waste less resin and generally gave me a neat layup.

After about two hours the whole thing was in. I took a shower and relaxed for a bit.

Then I wandered in to make sure it was curing nicely. It was.... but stepping back for a minute from the hull, something looked off.

As nearly as I can recall that moment, my thoughts ran something like "hmm... that's odd, it looks crooked. But I checked it was level....I let me measure from the transom again...@*(@#$(*#$%^(&@#$(%&@(#&$("

It turned out that I'd never checked the ends of the main stringers for length, so when the new bulkhead butted up against them it was two inches farther forward to starboard than port. It's level and even, it's just angled across the hull. Gah. I couldn't tell from the template and didn't notice when I was installing it. Apparently the template had been crooked too, but I hadn't noticed. It's perfectly fitted in place, it's just not perpendicular to the keel.

It doesn't show, and won't affect anything, but it bugs the heck out of me that I spent all that time and effort making this thing and putting it in place, and it looks very half-assed.

/sigh

Erik

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Well, I promised pics today, but I forgot to take some last night, so here's a plan pic... the upper part is a side view of the engine stringers/deck supports (and it's missing the main stringers) while the lower part is a top view:

Basically this is the way I'm laying out the structure at my transom. You can see the "normal" sea ray layout with the two long stringers terminating at the engine bulkhead, and the engine stringers slightly offset going back from there.

I've made the engine stringers 6 inches high and double width (they're purple in the pic above). This lets me reach under the engine from the side, which was a problem in the previous structure. I'm using an offset plywood support member slightly outboard of the engine stringers to support the deck in that area. It'll meet a "rib" at right angles that will tie to the side panel of the boat.

In the pic above, the bottom of the eventual deck will be level with the top of the green deck support.. that's 2 inches higher than the old deck, to make the bottom of the transom door closer to the deck height. It shouldn't cause problems for stability because I'm removing so much weight high up for the cap replacement.

Basically this structure lets me access the underside of the engine. I'll be using removable panels that I'll clip/bolt in place to seal the holes thus made for normal use (to keep sound and water contained as much as possible).

The transom door on the port side is marked in the pic. I'll have a bilge right under the door that's contained on the forward side by a "rib", by the transom aft, and the removable panel on the inboard side. There'll be a dedicated bilge pump in there plus two in the engine compartment.

I'm holding off cutting the door hole as long as I can in case I want to change the shape or size to fit the structure I'm building.

I'll be glassing in the engine stringers and maybe the deck supports tonight, once those are in I can pick the hull off the stands and move it a bit to facilitate work on the new cap panels.

I'm looking forward to finishing the deck supports and some brackets to attach the deck to the hull sides.. after those are in I can put a temporary deck platform in place and I won't have to risk falling on my rear climbing around the inside of the V hull (which normally is covered in grinding dust).

I'm thinking I'll use 1/2 inch ply for the final deck back there, but even that is just for framing of hatches. The hatches themselves I'm thinking of molding from glass and gelcoat with reinforcements. The deck will be removable to access the door bilge and the deck space under the starboard aft deck (where I'll mount a davit crane) plus access to the engine space when the side panels of the engine bilge are removed.

Not sure yet on the motor mounts.. the pic above shows the original style, two square pillars. I may weld up a steel motor mount that attaches to pads on the hull or to the engine stringers, not sure yet. That would be less prone to rot and preserve bilge access too.

Progress pics soon.. right now the boat looks like an empty lower hull, and a dirty lower hull at that.

Erik

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Hokay, I took a couple pics last night.

Really, I was worn out from glassing, so they're not too impressive. I spent about four hours after work getting some "ribs" cut and fitted, getting my engine stringers ready to go, and cutting some deck supports.

Then I prepped the hull for glass in those areas, grinding flat and cleaning with xylene.

First I made the deck supports... 2 inches deep (plus knees at the ends) made from 3/4" ply in two layers:

The flat sides of these will be "up".

I made putty beds for the engine stringers and ribs, and squished them into place hard. Then I started glassing using 6 inch 12 oz biaxial tape (I bought some 50 yard rolls a while back) and epoxy. I had to stop when I had used 3/4 gallon of epoxy and most of one roll of tape. That was enough to let me get three layers of fabric tabs on the engine stringer and rib on one side of the boat. The stringer and rib for the other side are in place, but only have putty on them right now.

That kinda irritated me - I wanted to work wet on wet for two reasons: strength, and the fact that I can smooth down the putty fillets with the glass tape, saving me some sanding. But I was over optimistic on the time required to get both sides done.

I'll see if I can finish the other side tonight.. I took time to smooth the fillets on the starboard (not done) side with resin and a paintbrush, so hopefully I can give them a quick skim of resin to fill any bubbles and then put the glass on.

I've skipped doing glass on the upper part of the ribs and stringer so far since they had a slight warp in the upper parts - I'll wait for the glass to cure before I straighten them and glass them in place. The bottom ends are in place, I measured 3x to make sure after my last problem.

Here's the side I got done:

You can see the engine stringer with its 1 foot knee coming up to transom height. This is partly for strength, but mostly to seal off the engine compartment against the transom, so there's no ventilation leaks or places for sound to escape.

Here's the whole assembly except for the deck supports. You can see the "ribs" coming up to the engine stringers and ending in mid-air. I'll be cutting a notch in the top corner for the deck supports to pass through. The supports will sit slightly outboard of the engine stringers at deck level, which will give me space to fit a removable panel on top of the stringers, again to seal the engine compartment:

After I finish glassing the ribs and stringers in place with tabs I'll cover them with a layer of glass - probably some biax for the stringers and maybe just some thin mat for protection elsewhere. I want it to conform easily to the wood, and there are a lot of corners to go around, even though I rounded the stringers, parts of the ribs, and the deck supports with my router.

After the deck supports are in place I'll cut the hole for the sterndrive and shape the garboard drain, then install the brass drain tube and put some glass over it all to seal and neaten.

Then I'll most likely put a sheet of plywood on top of it all as a temp deck while I work my way forward through the boat. After this stern section comes the mid section, with 8 ribs that also form seat supports and storage.

Erik

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Okay, time for another "boat blog" entry

Night before last I spent a little time glassing in the lower part of the stuff on the starboard side, so everything but the top parts of the "ribs" and engine stringers are tabbed in. Next up I'm going to do some grinding as a general clean-up, some sanding with my new RO sander, and then I'll be putting a layer of 1708 or DB1700 over the engine stringers to a point about halfway up the transom.

I'll also be building up the hull a bit in the starboard aft corner. This is where my davit crane will sit, so I want support there, plus I'd have to put a lot of fairing putty there anyway since I want that corner to drain forward (the other corner is a dedicated bilge, this one will have to drain to the main bilge).

So, a little more glass on the engine stringers, the deck supports go in, and I'll putty and glass the ribs and the vertical part of the engine stringers in place. Probably after/at the end of that I'll cut the transom hole for the I/O, drill the bolt holes, then I'm going to counterbore with about a 1 inch bit from the inside until just the skin is left on the outside, fill with epoxy putty, and re-drill.

I also need to fit and sculpt the garboard drain and transom fitting.

I'll do a final check on the limber holes in the area and clean up as needed.

Then it's a bit of covering exposed wood with thin mat and resin, including the hole innards, a bit more grinding, then fairing of the bilge and selected hull areas.

I'm hoping I'll reach the point of being ready to fair by the end of this weekend, but we'll see. I'm always too optimistic.

I bought some supplies last night... a gallon of cabosil, a gallon of 1/32 milled fibers, and a 28 lb bag of glass microbubbles.. that stuff makes a nice sandable fairing putty and I'll need a lot of it. I'm also going to try replacing my wood flour putty base with milled fibers/cabosol. The bag was about the same price as two gallon buckets of the stuff, so I figured what the heck. It's about the same volume as a 30 gallon drum.

After the bilge fairing is done then I'll stick a sheet of plywood over the aft interior as a temporary cover and deck, and work my way forward. Next on that agenda is cutting and fitting ribs/seat supports and cleaning up the main stringer glass a bit, followed by a bit more demolition and grinding all the way to the bow.

I moved the boat on its dollies last night and then put it back on jack stands and leveled it. So now I have room to work on the whole thing, although not a lot of space anywhere. I need a bigger workshop

Erik

 

[Willyclay]

Re: Winter refit - transom

I need a bigger workshop.

So, where are you going to put that trawler in your future?

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

So, where are you going to put that trawler in your future?

Well, one reason I decided to get a bigger boat with a steel hull is so that it's so big I'm not tempted to trailer it, but rather I have to leave it in a slip all winter.

So, problem solved... I just need to buy a very big boat

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Not a lot of visible, exciting work this weekend.

I spent most of the time I had doing little bits of demo and grinding.. I think I generated an inch of dust over the entire garage interior... I'm going to be cleaning with a shop vac and compressed air blower in the spring.

I also installed a new vent fan.. it's basically a small bathroom type. I'd been intending to vent the space to the outdoors for a while to keep fumes down, and throwing up all that dust finally made me do it. Hopefully the fan will create an area of low pressure in the room that will draw dust into it and not let so much migrate to the rest of the house.

Anyway, grinding... I got the last of the top cap off, cleaned up the rivets, removed the sheer clamp (plywood that backed up the hull/cap joint), removed the poly resin glue, ground the inside of the flange all the way around then the outside. I also roughed up the gel coat quite a bit for about 8 inches below the flange... I'll need at least that much to tie the new top panels into the boat. I'm going to go back and grind off the rest of the gel coat, I decided.

For now, here are pics back to front of how the hull looks:

She sure looks big without the top cap and cuddy cabin. I'm going to enjoy the extra space.

You can see the blue carpeted cuddy step is still there, plus some of the anchor well in the bow above that, plus parts of the ledges that were for mounting shelves and padded panels, plus some small deck sections. All that will eventually come out, but I want to replace some structure in the mid section first to avoid warping the hull.

Lots to do yet, but she sure looks bigger and much less cluttered now...

Erik

 

[199q]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Just got done reading your thread.



Looks awesome. you have done a great job, and will have an amazing boat when you are done. a large inspiration to me for sure!

I also have the expanding project scope creep. starts with a oil change, ends as a total rebuild! haha

 

[BobsGlasstream]

Re: Winter refit - transom

erikgreen,
Looks like you are making some real progress.
It's amazing how much dust we can generate with a little grinding.
It's also amazing how far it will migrate too. The little fan should help some if it holds up. That dust seems to wreck everything.
Have a great day.
Bob

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Yeah, the fan does seem to help some, at least in keeping the dust contained in that area. I think I'll set my dust collector up to run too, with the intake up in the air above the boat.

I spent a couple hours grinding gelcoat last night... clearing off a strip below the top edge of the sides. That stuff is really thick at the bow... I think I could carve a divot and hide a quarter in it.

Hopefully I'll finish that tonight and move on to grinding the inside some more. I'll also check the stands to make sure the hull will stay straight before I do any more demolition.

Phew. Itchy. Gelcoat seems to get everywhere, even more than regular glass.

Erik

 

[BobsGlasstream]

Re: Winter refit - transom

erikgreen,
I would definitely set up the dust collector, The one I saw in one of your earlier post should help a bunch. I have two of them but didn't use them because I was grinding outside.
Good luck and keep the pic's coming.
Bob

 

[cheesegrits]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Looking good Erik! For the itching take a 2 foot piece of two inch masking tape and roll it into a ball backwards with the glue on the outside. Take this and roll it over your skin several times and the glue will pull a lot of the fibers out of your skin. It really works! Just don't try it on areas with a lot of body hair! I can't stand that cactus feeling and this does make it tolerable. Also rinse off with cold water as hot water opens your pores and gives more places for the fibers to work into. Let us know if it helps!

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Yeah, I use a pet hair remover roller for that. The thing was, I was fully covered for the work- the gelcoat dust got into the bunny suit some, but it didn't affect the places I'd coated with talc, or the stuff tightly covered by gloves. Even doing my usual cold water start to the shower didn't get it all.

Honestly the worst was my forehead, where I'd managed to direct a stream of dust a couple times in close quarters, and my eyes, which were smarting from all the dust in the air. Yuck. I put a load of lotion on my forehead and it was mostly ok the next day.

Last night I used both the dust collector and the vent fan, and things went ok, although I didn't do a lot of grinding. For some reason I was feeling dizzy and fell in the boat, so I took a rest and then went back when I felt better (after I had band-aids on).

I didn't do more grinding though, I got inside the boat and started removing the "steps" at the bow.. this is a spot where sea ray included a lot of the floatation for this boat. Lots of dry foam to remove.

But at least it's progress. I'll hopefully get the rest of it out along with the plywood structure up there, then grind the inside of the hull forward of the transom work I did. After that bulkheads start going in up front and seat frames on the sides.

Hopefully I'll get a lot done this weekend. Only 5-6 weeks left before I'd like to be close to done with the building and ready to take the boat outside to the other garage to paint.

Erik

PS: I bought a kicker for the boat cheap, assuming I can get it to work. Another item off my checklist for the summer.

 

[Willyclay]

Re: Winter refit - transom

I was feeling dizzy and fell in the boat.

If you don't take care of yourself, you will wind up like us old geezers. Be careful. What did you get for a kicker?

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

I got a Honda B75 (7.5HP) for $300. I think it's about a 1985 or so motor.

Doesn't run, but did when stored, so I'll have to go over it and check for a clogged carb, bad seals, etc.

Wish me luck...

Erik

 

[Willyclay]

Re: Winter refit - transom

I got a Honda B75 (7.5HP) for $300. /QUOTE]

Nice! Hopefully, it's a simple fix to get going. Good luck

 

[BobsGlasstream]

Re: Winter refit - transom

erikgreen,
Good luck on the motor.
Are you wearing glasses or goggles? Goggles work better but tend to steam up a lot. You really need to take care.
Bob

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

For that night I was wearing a full face shield for grinding. I've tried glasses and goggles, but as you mention they fog, and also they don't sit right on my nose when I wear a respirator.

I think the ultimate solution here is to wear the full face for grinding and a dust mask with goggles for anything less, and to use filters and fans to keep the air reasonably clean. When the dust gets so thick it's a fog in the air, it's a problem even if I'm not breathing it.

Erik