1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

[bvetter]

Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

Again, Resin, without gel is translucent soooo, anywhere that the color is gone light will shine thru. You should only be worried if the hull seems to be excessively flimsy in certain areas. If you will be filling the hull with flotation foam it will really stiffen the hull significantly. That's why I asked you to give an estimate of the thickness of the glass in the hull. If it's 1/8" to 3/16" then it's fine. If you want to lay an extra layer of CSM or 1708 then you can, but IMHO it's not necessary or required. The GREEN stuff is Polyester resin.

It's really hard to tell. But in some areas it really gives if I put weight on it. Especially near the areas I was grinding where original structure was. If I had to guess, most areas are in the 1/8" thickness, some way less. If you think woven is way overkill, I may just stick with CSM and 1708 as you've suggested.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

You can use WR if you want but I'd use 1708. Lighter and stronger and uses less Resin.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

You can use WR if you want but I'd use 1708. Lighter and stronger and uses less Resin.

^^yep
esp about using less resin

 

[bvetter]

Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

10-4.

And yes, I am planning to put flotation foam in, a lot more than there was originally (either they skimped on the volume or it really shrunk over time).

 

[tpenfield]

Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

nice progress. I would definitely add a layer or two to the areas of the hull that seem thin or have those voids. As far as the foam, it seems that a lot of the boats that are torn down for restoration have inadequate foam. By that, I mean the foam did not seem to completely fill the chamber.

So, you will want to add sufficient foam to get a complete fill and perhaps a slight overfill. You should have foam pushing out of the fill holes after it has expanded, and then let if cure. In my experience with foam (so far) I found that it does not expand to the published/specified volume at lower temperatures (makes sense), like 60-70 degrees F (15-20 C). So, figure that it may only expand to about 80-90% of what the spec's indicate and overshoot a bit more to get complete fills of your hull chambers.

 

[wildcatfan1491]

Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

I want to jump in too and watch the restoration since I have a boat very similar to you!

 

[bvetter]

Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

In my experience with foam (so far) I found that it does not expand to the published/specified volume at lower temperatures (makes sense), like 60-70 degrees F (15-20 C). So, figure that it may only expand to about 80-90% of what the spec's indicate and overshoot a bit more to get complete fills of your hull chambers.

I am ordering 2 x 2gal kits (2lb). The two kits should yield a nominal volume of 16 cubic feet under ideal conditions. I figured I would need around 12, so I should be ok, I'm hoping....

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

I am ordering 2 x 2gal kits (2lb). The two kits should yield a nominal volume of 16 cubic feet under ideal conditions. I figured I would need around 12, so I should be ok, I'm hoping....

12cu ft foam = 60lbs X 12cf = 720lbs of flotation. Might NEED a bit more.

[SIZE=+1]2 LB [/SIZE]Density Urethane Foam (U.S. Coast Guard Compliant Marine Foam)
[SIZE=-2]Common Applications: Our 2LB density marine foam is recommended for void filling in nonstructural applications. This product can be poured underneath decks and inside cavities where a lightweight flotation foam is needed to provide buoyancy. This foam has been tested in accordance with U.S. Coast Guard Regulation # 33 CFR 183.114 . This foam is approximately 95-98% closed cell which resists absorbing water, however continuous water submersion can eventually lead to loss of buoyancy over a period of years. We recommend this product strictly for flotation applications. If looking for a liquid foam for sculpting or casting we recommend using at minimum our 3LB or 4LB density. More questions? [/SIZE][SIZE=-2][Try our Foam FAQ.][/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Cat No.[/SIZE]	[SIZE=-1]Kit Size[/SIZE][SIZE=-2](net weight)[/SIZE]	[SIZE=-1]Approx. Coverage[/SIZE]	[SIZE=-1]Price[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]FOAM-0204[/SIZE]	[SIZE=-1]4 LB Kit[/SIZE]	[SIZE=-1]2 Cubic Feet[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]FOAM-0216[/SIZE]	[SIZE=-1]16 LB Kit[/SIZE]	[SIZE=-1]8 Cubic Feet[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]FOAM-0280[/SIZE]	[SIZE=-1]80 LB Kit[/SIZE]	[SIZE=-1]40 Cubic Feet[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-2]Product Information: Free Rise Density: 2.0 lbs per cubic ft. Expansion Rate: Approx. 25-30x Liquid Volume Buoyancy (flotation): 60 LBs per Cubic Ft.[/SIZE]	[SIZE=-2]*Physical Properties: Parallel Compressive Strength: 40 psi Tensile Strength: 30 psi Shear Strength: 30 psi Flexural Strength: 50 psi[/SIZE]

If you get 100% of the foam below decks w/ no waste, and maximum expansion under ideal conditions, you'd still need more then 16cf:
16cf X 60lbs/cf = 960lbs of flotation

1999 Celebrity 190 = 2800lbs dry weight from here

Not sure, but since that's an I/O, 2800lbs probably includes the weight of the motor. Some of the stuff in the boat is lighter then water, and you should always add a margin of error in the figures. So roughly, you can let the margin of error cancel the bouyancy of the boat's contents & construction.

If your boat weighs 2800lbs after reconstruction, you'd need 2800/60 = 46cf of foam. Which sounds much closer to accurate for a 18.5ft long 8ft wide I/O bowrider.

 

[bvetter]

Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

Well, not sure where it would all go! I just recalculated, and get 10.9 cu-ft of actual available volume under the deck. Unless I plan on filling the ski locker, fuel compartment, and bilge, I can't see myself getting anywhere near 46ft! As a note, I pulled out maybe 6 or so cu-ft, tops.......

There is however some compartments behind the transom on either side of the outdrive, I could potentially fill them as well, but I still don't see it getting up that high in the numbers, those compartments are around 7 cu-ft total.

Hmmmmm......

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

Bow rider, correct? No foam up under the consoles, front seats, against the fiberglass in any of the storage compartments, up under & along the gunwales? Plus any surrounding the engine's doghouse cover. An inch of foam up 1 side, across the top & down the other side of a gunwale can also add up on a boat that long.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

I just recalculated, and get 10.9 cu-ft of actual available volume under the deck

In a 18.5 ft boat? I'd expect it to have more space below decks.

Post how you did your calcs. Below deck fuel tank, correct? Central ski locker, you mentioned already, perhaps it is <11cf.

 

[bvetter]

Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

Just a thought, would the factory have taken the foam in the seats into their flotation calcs? Between the bow seat pads, captain's chairs, rear bench seat, and huge sunpad, there is quite a bit of seat foam on this thing.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

IDK, maybe, more likely they used it as a deduction for natural bouyuancy of the boat & it's construction materials. So they estimated that the boat in total only needed to be supported by enough foam to float 75% of the boat's 2800lbs.

Sort of how I should float, since I'm mostly water. Add some body fat & for sure I should float. Don't float worth a damn, at least not w/ the ability to breathe too :facepalm: Which is reinforced by the pool noodle that'll float a 200lb person pretty well. But sinks when tied to a 10lb weight.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

The USCG has some guidelines and calculation tables that can help you figure out what you would need for basic flotation, factoring in the density and buoyancy of the materials in the boat and motor.

Here is a link to the document: Flotation - Level Flotation

Once you figure out the basic flotation, you can then factor things up for more positive flotation as you see fit.

 

[bvetter]

Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

See attached (hopefully the upload didn't downgrade the quality too much).

The sketch is not to scale, didn't have time to draw it up in CAD. :friendly_wink:

Anyways, here is how I got the volume:

Along side bilge and fuel compartment:
23.5" x 7" / 2 = 82.25 sq-in (area of profile).

82.25 sq-in x 97" = roughly 8000 cubic-in

Along side ski locker:
14" x 7" / 2 = 49 sq-in (are of profile)

49 sq-in x 30" = 1470 cubic-in



Total Volume (one side) = 9470 cubic inches
Total Volume (both sides) = 18940 cubic inches (10.96 cu-ft)

Hopefully those calcs made sense.

There really isn't a lot of room under the deck. For example, the height of the outside edge of the stringer alongside the ski locker is around 7".

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

That ski locker must be HUGE (or at least extremely wide).......

8ft beam of the boat less 14" (each side) between hull & locker leaves a 5.5ft wide ski locker:

If the layout is correct, even if the scale isn't, that's an extremely wide ski locker. I've never seen 1 that big, even if it's for knee boards.

Even allowing for your approximation that due to hull taper the area's 14X7 for calc purposes.

I know my 46cf is a gross over estimate of the amount of foam needed, but 11cf isn't enough either. Based on the model in the USCG doc linked above, an 1800lb boat needed 11cf.

 

[bvetter]

Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

These pics might show some perspective on the original layout.

 

[bvetter]

Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

The ski locker is 24" wide. And yes, drawing is not to scale....

For that 30" section where I used a 14" long triangular profile, keep in mind this was an approximation for the average area of that section. The forward end of the 30" section, the width would be 0". At the back end of the 30" section, the width would be 23.5". At the back end of the 30" section, the hull has already really started to taper, so the deck is only about 6.5' at that point. (2' ski locker + 2 x 2' cavities on either side + about 3" on either side to get to the side of the hull).

 

[bvetter]

Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

Another thing, as the hull tapers in on the side as you go forward, it also starts to pinch up (cavity not as deep), so I think my approximation may even be on the conservative side. Nevertheless, you get a sense for how little volume is under the deck, and you can see in some of the pics how little foam was actually in there from the start. I guess the manufacturers hope you never end up opening them up to get a look inside, or they just don't care....

 

[bvetter]

Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

This sketch better depicts things....