1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

[jc55]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Hey MHj..........................your shoe is untied ;P

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Lol!!!:laugh: See how I am. One of my mom's worst fears for me came true with that very untied shoe lace tonight. You know, the whole "you better tie your shoe lace or your gonna trip on it"!
Just kiddin. I didn't realy trip. Not that you guys no of anyway.:facepalm:
The funny thing about it is that I tell my kids that same old thing.:faint2:

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Did you notice the hole in the outer corner in what would have been beneath the port side float pod? I was chasing a crack in the glass and I guess I just ended up stop drilling it with a 4.5 angle grinder. I know, nice work DS!!
The other one was just raw, un-resin soaked glass being held together by one thin layer of glass and gelcoat and covered by some filler material and the transom on the inside.
Although you couldn't see it from the underside, I beleive that somehow water was getting in through that spot. Who knows.

 

[GT1000000]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Here is my take on what you could do...
First fill the holes around the transom area with a small patch of CSM...just to keep stuff from "leaking" out...
Then basically follow the rough sketch below...
Start by securing the transom plate to the interior of the hull...making sure you get excellent bubble-free laminations...
Then finish up the outside basically the same way...
All of the "TABS" start at approximately 6" wide for the first layer of CSM { works out to 3" on the hull side and 3" on the transom} and Progressively get larger by about 2'' for the next layer of 1708@ 8" wide...and so on...






I forgot to include a bead of PB where the Transom plate meets the hull bottom on the interior...and you can disregard the "under-wrapping" of the outer hull skin...the bottom part of the BLUE curved line above

By the time you get the stringers installed and butted up and glassed to the transom, along with all of the other structure and foam boxes, you should be better built that the factory...

Hope this gives you some idea on how to proceed...

Again, this is how I would go about it...not necessarily the only way...

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

GT1M. Thanks for the drawing. That's a great way to go about it in my opinion. I think this is how Woodonglass explained it also. I took a good look at my transom bracket yesterday for the reason of build up thickness. There's enough room in there that I think it should be pretty forgiving. There are about three inches to work with. It will change how the back of the splashwell butts up against it, but that part is already cut out and needs to be re fitted anyway. Thanks man.

Has anyone worked with the 25.5 oz 1708 w/mat instead of the 17 oz 1708 w/mat? I ask because one supplier offers one type and one supplier the other. The supplier that is closest to me offers only the 25.5 oz. The 25.5 oz is more expensive and seems to me like it would be harder to bend and soak up more resin. If you guys have ever used both kinds and have a preferance. Please let me know. Thanks.

 

[Daniel1947]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Daniel1947. I am refering to polyester. In the terms of what they are considering to be their best product for boat hull build and repair. 10 gallons to start with. Here's a question for you. Have you decided to start on yours yet?

I originally had planned on starting mine about now...maybe a week ago or a week from now. However I have a new current project which is just a little higher priority. I rebuilt my 360 V8 in my truck a couple months ago, but a few weeks ago, it developed a miss, ran a compression check, 150 across the board....except the one with 0. Pulled valve cover and rocker arm shaft, pushrod bent, intake valve stuck part way down, pulled head and looks like valve is bent and there are indications it kissed the piston. Looks as lifter might have done what we used to call a "hydraulic lock." Head is now at machine shop so boat is sitting till truck is fixed. :blue: Girlfriend won't let me use her Acura RSX to move the boat & trailer, :facepalm: I can't understand why! So until truck is done...boat will sit. But watching your fantastic progress I am looking forward to getting on mine.

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Sorry for that peice of bad luck daniel1947. At least you got moving on you repairs. Thats a pricey one too. I hope it generates as little fall out as possible for you. Tell your GF that she needs to get her priorities figured out and let you pull the boat with the Acura. I'm sure it will pull it just find once she buys a receiver for it.:laugh:
I'm gonna get started on mine as soon as can figure out how to quit tripping myself up over the details of it. Right now it's all the grunt work I suppose, but not for long. I have a small amount of grinding left to do and then it's time for the more technical stuff I suppose.
The polyester resin at the distributor in Washington State that I was looking into(woodonglass posted a link to their website for me on page 7, post 20) is only specified as their boat and general purpose resin. It does give some other details such as being wax free and contains a thixotropic agent to help reduce drain out on vertical surfaces. It is a bit more at $136.94 for 5 gallons then the 435 polyester boat resin at USC in Florida State. Im leaning a bit more toward the Washington distributor because of shipping costs. The thing about that is they are the company with the 25.5 oz 1708 available rather than the 17 oz 1708. The 25.5 oz doesn't seem to be as popular as the 17 oz for whatever reason I don't quite know yet and is also about $5 more per yard. Either way, with both the combined extra cost of the resin and the heavier 1708, it is still less expensive then shipping it here from florida. Plus I can add a bunch of rollers and stuff too. I would just prefer to try and get the largest order completed in one shot from one place. Otherwise I'm spending at least if not more on shipping costs than I would ever save by splitting the orders . If the heavier glass creates an issue of some kind, then I will split the order.
See what I mean about tripping myself up. First time blues I guess. If I choose to take on a project like this again, I have a feeling it just might flow a little better.
Here's a little bit of good news though. As of today, I actually have two 4x8 sheets of 3/4 Aruco pine plywood paid for and sitting in the garage right now which should be enough to build both stringers, the transom, all of the ribs and the float pods. Maybe even some of the floor if I cut it all out just right.:joyous: Even though I've spent tons of time and money on building support equipment, acquiring tools and performing demo, for some reason bringing home those two boards made me feel like things are starting to move toward the next level. Kinda nice. Thanks for the comp on my progress man. Let me know when you about to get started on yours. Thanks.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Don't have to buy all the supplies from 1 supplier. Most are weight or purchase amount dependent, so price shop. So if you buy resin from supplier X to save $@shipping, buy glass from supplier z. Supplier y may have rollers etc that neither of the other 2 offer, or priced better, so have 3 suppliers.

Have you priced the orders shipped separately? When I did, the slight increase in the total shipping cost (which as I remember was nearly negligible on a $750 total order, which had nearly $250 in shipping, inc hazmat) was EASILY overcome by the cost savings. The hazmat shipping for the resin wasn't consistant from 2 suppliers that are less then 100mi+/- apart, both in Fl, and both 600mi+ from me.

It doesn't need to be nearly as complicated as you're making it.

You posted IN your question exactly why the 25.5oz isn't a better choice. Weight, difficult to contour & takes more resin then the 1708.

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

The truth is that some other issues have come up that have seriously cut back my budget since the project began. I have no choice but to get the best materials my now much more limited budget has room to allow. This is part of why I analyze the heck out of my expenditures. Man, I'm just trying to save as much money as possible. I have no choice at this point.
I also already have suppliers broken down to the most cost effective through reference of the members on this forum. It is between two at this point. They each have something that may outweigh each other in terms of being the best possible choice for placing an order. The real last hurdle in the self complicating decision is which distributors material is best suited for the repairs and build up.
If the 17 oz material is the better way to go, that changes the dynamic of who I will order my materials from. At least I analyzed that one right I guess.
Either way, I have to place an order, or junk the boat and sell the motor. I dont feel like junkin the boat. I know you guys have told me that you didn't know anything about this stuff either when you first started. I also know that this type of knowledge isn't just inherited. But now I'm just starting and I guess it's my turn to experience the growing pains that I need to to learn how to accomplish this task the right way.
I also like to know why things do what they do, if that makes any sense. Some people are comfortable with just running with watever their told. But it's in my nature to want to know why things work the way they do. This way I am able to figure out why something went wrong and how to fix it if it does.
So even by making things more complicated for myself in the beginning for the purposes of getting the right materials for the right job at the right and fair price, knowing why I am choosing these materials and being somewhat familiar with their proper use and knowing the correct end result of their proper use, I am REALLY learning about this project. Not just going through the motions.
I would like to be able to pass this knowledge on to others as you guys have patiently been trying to pass it on to me. But I won't effectively be able to even begin to do that if turn l can't answer the more technical questions about the methods that I am suggesting for use to others. I have really enjoyed being a member of this community and I want to be able to help others the way others have helped me. It's just the way it should work in my honest opinion.
So once again to all. Thanks for the help and the patience!

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

In some cases Heavier Cloth/Fabric is an asset. I don't think what you are needing to do is one of these cases. The 1708 will be just fine and the Washington supplier and their resin will also be just fine. If their prices are better then I'd go with them. They are closer to you so you should get better delivery time and service. They're resin is good as attested by one of our most respected former members.

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Thanks woodonglass. I do have to say that thecWashington supplier only offers the heavier fabric. The Florida supplier is the one that offers the lighter, easier to use fabric. But as long as either one will work. That is good information to know. I just read through the info again and realized the heavier cloth is actually 25.3 oz, not 25.5 oz.
I'm not changing opinion on wether to use a 1708 w/mat type of glass here or anything but I just have a question. I noticed that there were other types of glass such as e-glass and s-glass that are used in boat repair and construction. Is it that cloth w/mat offers a faster build up and better strength with less layering and room for possible heat distortion of the surface when it's curing?
Another reason this brings me to question about different types of glass is because of your diagram of fiberglass lay-up over the bedded stringer, you mentioned that through consideration of other opinions of iboats members etc... you had changed your opinion on the necessity of the use of the layer of csm in stringer build up process. Is this possibly for the reason of the fabric w/mat layering doing essentialy the same thing without the base layer of plain csm? Or does it offer some benefit to go without the plain layer of csm in the lay-up?
Or did I misunderstand the whole meaning of the process together?
I know, I'm like my 5 year old. Questions, questions, questions! sorry, I can't help it.

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Ok woodonglass. Sorry. Please disregard my questions about the stringer lay-up. I just scanned back through the thread and got lucky enough to quickly find the link to your diagram.
Questions answered. I just don't know which of your methods I am comfortable choosing yet. The plywood I bought today has an extremely smooth finish. I picked two of the best sheets I could find with no voids etc..
I guess I'll just really have to think it through after the stringers are bedded in and up against the glass that will be layered over the transom.
That is assuming that the stringers are ok being bedded up against a glassed over transom and don't have to be attached to the wood surface of the transom with screws or other types of fasteners before tabbing them into it.
I mention that because that is how they were attached when I tore them out.

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

My new boards. Im very proud of them. Too bad they have to get cut up. Maybe not though.

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

I spent about another 5 hours grinding today. I finished up the bulk of the bow area back to the first brace board and the entire gw area on the port side and back to where the transom will mount. I cleaned up bulk of the resin and pb out of the crevasses where the stringers were glued in and ground out most of the keel area that I had left to do.
Now I just need to finish up the starboard side gw area from the first brace board back to the transom, peel off the cap screw backing boards and grind where they were mounted and then use my die grinder with a carbide reamer to clean up all of the tight spots in the corners and all of the excess build up that was caked up under the transom that the 4.5 grinder wont get into. I will then trim the glass off of the stringers so I can use them for rough templates and then the inside hull grinding should be complete.

As soon as I'm finished grinding it, I decided that I'm going to blow everything out, tear the dust shelter out, wipe the hull down really well with acetone and rebuild a different type of shelter that's not taped to the hull, but will leave room to work on the hull from the sides and maybe just help keep some of the fumes inside of the shelter to be vented out through the same type of ventilation system I've been using to get rid of the dust.
I just can't see how I will be able to effectively do any kind of build up without more room to move around outside of the hull and still be able to access the inside as well.

Anyway, the grinding sucks, I've had what seems to be possibly an unusual amount of it to do, but it's almost done. I am happy!:joyous:

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Wood looks good. Tabbing the stringers to the transom is All that's required. No mechanical fasteners requires. Since Shipping is almost the same and I have dealt with USC a LOT, I really think you'd be better off Dealing with them. Since you are in Utah, in a Cooler climate Your Resin will keep for a very long time so you won't have to worry about it spoiling on you. You could order 10 gals of Resin 10 yds of CSM and 1708 a 5" Bubble roller and then you could get started on fabricating your transom and getting it clamped in place and prepping for glassing the outer skin.

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Thanks woodonglass. And thanks again for the outstanding info you discussed with me today as well. As has been pointed out by yourself and others, there can be and are in my case substantial cost savings in researching and making good use of sometimes multiple distributors. Even into the hundreds of dollars range. I don't have suppliers loading their trucks with my stuff quite yet, but the decisions are pretty much hammered out.
I went out today and picked up a gallon jug of titebond 3, a wood adhesive trowel and a very nice smaller peice of 1/2 sanded hardwood plywood for building my stringer joints out of. I also found there a peice of 4?8, 3/8 thick baltic birch plywood that I will use to build my gw panels out of. They also had the same baltic birch in 1/4 sheets. I would rather use the 1/4, and I think it would be much easier to bend it to conform to the shape of the sides of the hull, but I don't know if the 1/4 is stout enough to not expand out of shape while the foam is expanding in between the hull and the panel.
I peeled the cap attaching boards off tonight just so I could feel like I actually accomplished something because I just couldn't force myself to suit up and grind the little bit I have left before it's complete. The little bit in comparison to what's already been done that is. I'm almost there!:joyous:

Here's a question about the stringer lay-up that maybe someone will answer for me ahead of time. I have noticed in a boat builders book and on the frisco boaters glastron resto on youtube that the stringers aren't actually making contact with the hull. They are shimmed up. I also noticed tonight while looking closely at my old stringers that they too only touched the hull in what looks like one spot. My stringers were completely void of any kind of filleting joint. They had been glued down in one small spot about six inches long. They were not beveleled to match the hull as I have posted before, but I see others beveling their stringers to match the their hulls. I am assuming that the bevel method is to be able to put the stringers in direct contact with the hull. Which method is the correct method? It will make a very big difference in how I have to cut my stringers to match the original floor height as closely as possible. Even with the use of the stringer jig.

Next question. Has anyone ever used this distributor for their 1708 and CSM? If so, what was your opinion?
https://fiberglasssupplydepot.com/home.php

Thanks everyone for the help and thanks jc55 for the book!

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Beveled stringers require less PB to fill the gap & allow for smaller fillets. Because a bevel joint more closely fits the contour of the hull, as opposed to a square cut joint that has to be higher on the downhill side of the joint.

Stringers are NOT to be in contact w/ the hull. Shim them up, spot fill the gap w/ PB to 'FIX' the stringer in place where you want it. Once cured, pull the shims & infill the voids in the gap w/ PB, often making fillets at the same time.

The gap allows the bedding compound (PB) to spread any load transferred from hull to stringer or the reverse across a larger surface area and prevent a hard point of contact from causing the hull to stress crack.

On vintage hulls that have been pounded thru surf, waves, wakes repeatedly for season after season, you can see the minute spider cracks radiating away from long cracks (also often very small) that run along either side or below the stringers.

Follow WOG's graphic, it's the best practice a backyard boat builder can use to minimize hard spots and maximize the strength & integrity of the Hull/Stringer/Deck assembly~system.

I went out today and picked up a very nice smaller peice of 1/2 sanded hardwood plywood for building my stringer joints out of. I also found there a peice of 4?8, 3/8 thick baltic birch plywood that I will use to build my gw panels out of. They also had the same baltic birch in 1/4 sheets. I would rather use the 1/4, and I think it would be much easier to bend it to conform to the shape of the sides of the hull, but I don't know if the 1/4 is stout enough to not expand out of shape while the foam is expanding in between the hull and the panel

Interior 1/2" hardwood plywood?

Baltic Birch is typically interior plywood as well. And what are GW panels?

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Thanks for the explanation on that jbcurt00. Is the 1/4 inch shim height explained in frisco boaters resto the standard height, or does it vary for hull length?

As for the 1/2 plywood for the joints... Great question man. I guess I jumped the gun on it when I saw it thinking that it would be good for building the joints. I just had a look at it and there are a few markings on it. It's made in Ecuador(don't know if that matters), it is marked with B/C, and is a five ply board.
I guess at the time I was only thinking of how using the 1/2 board for the joint will accommodate a thinner joint section in comparison to using the 3/4 board. Im just not exactly sure where the joint will be in the stringers length, but I'm afraid it will be very close to where the fuel tank mounts. If it is, it may create a very tight spot for the tank to be fitted into. Other than for that reason alone, there really isn't any reason why not to use the aruco I already have for the stringers.

For the baltic birch... I was under the impression that baltic birch is used in boat construction along with a few of the other hardwoods we have discussed and it would be ok to use. I beleive it was marked as an ACX board as well.

And for the gw panels...I mean gunwale panels or gunnel panels or whatever they are really called. I have heard them refered to as both on the forum. Or I'm just misunderstanding. On my boat, they are about 20 inches in height and run the lenght of the hull on the sides from the floatation pods up to the forward casting deck on the cap. They are glassed in on the bottom just outside of the sole, and on the forward and back edges. They were then filled with expandable foam. They are contoured outward to match the hull and are tapered from right against the hull on the bottom to about 8 inches or so wide on the top. Their top sections weren't glassed off when the boat came apart and were open to water getting down inside of them. As were the floatation pods. I had planned to glass these areas over upon rebuild. I'm still trying to work through if they had to be left open for some reason and why.

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Here are those panels.



And here is where the tank mounted in between the stringers. It was a very tight fit. I don't know how that bottle of Coppertone fit down the side to get in there. This may be in the area that the stringers joint together.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

1/4" +/- gap

much shorter & not much room for PB, so not spreading the load well

much more & it'll take a bunch of PB to fill

If the baltic birch is marked ACX, it's exterior. Most often it's not, if it's marked, your good.

B/C ply isn't exterior w/out the X at the end.