Engine replacement question

FreeBeeTony

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Re: Engine replacement question

Almost sounds easier to change over to a SBC...............:)
 

WizeOne

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Re: Engine replacement question

Almost sounds easier to change over to a SBC...............:)

Not complicated at all, FBT! There is absolutely no cause to defile his fine boat with one of those Gee Em hunks of iron. :p

He is planning on swapping a flat tappet 302 for a flat tappet 302. Can't get any simpler than that. Every single last piece, on his current engine, will transfer to the replacement, ie, front to rear, side to side, top to bottom.
 

FreeBeeTony

Captain
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May 15, 2002
Messages
3,991
Re: Engine replacement question

OK...........:)

Just seemd like your "locked-in" to a 302...............not many available upgrades there.
 

BarryT

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Dec 29, 2008
Messages
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Re: Engine replacement question

Do I need a special intake? I read that some intake have provisions for water passages and what not. What do I get?


-barry
 

WizeOne

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Mar 23, 2008
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Re: Engine replacement question

OK...........:)

Just seemd like your "locked-in" to a 302...............not many available upgrades there.

Used to be the case FBT, but not anymore. The marketplace has recognised the basic potential of the SBF and are supplying no end of go fast components.

The big advantage Chebbys use to have was in the heads/valves, but now with aftermarket heads (and even Ford's last GT40 and 40P heads) combined with Fords symetrical exhaust port placement, they are beating the snot out of SBC's.

Aftermarket suppliers are now even making symetrical exhaust port SBC heads because of the inherent advantage. Also, I might add, the proliferation of affordable stroker kits for SBF's put them in a different league. The Fords are also easier to stroke than the SBC's.
 

WizeOne

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Re: Engine replacement question

Do I need a special intake? I read that some intake have provisions for water passages and what not. What do I get?


-barry

All SBF intakes have provisions for water/coolant passages. This is why you do not want to run aluminum aftermarket intakes in saltwater. If you are sweetwater use only, you can do it. Otherwise stick with the oem 2 or 4 bbl castiron intakes.

If you do go with the aluminum, stay with the Dual plane Edelbrock Performer or equivalant. Do not step up to the Edelbrock Performer RPM intake or any of the single plane intakes. They move the power curve too far up the rpm scale and your boat will fall flat on it's face on acceleration. All of the aftermarket intake mfgr's will list the effective rpm range for their various manifolds. If you go aftermarket, you want to stick with the ones that are rated from idle to 5000 or 5500 rpm.

I would also say that better breathing aftermarket heads would be a waste of money. Your motor will be limited by how much exhaust can get out through very inefficient marine exhaust manifolds. OEM heads will handle as much, and possibly a little more than you can get pushed out the stern.

On carburetors, the very most proper upgrade for your 302 to a 4bbl, would be a 500 cfm version. Unfortunately the only one that makes a marine 500 cfnm 4bbl is Holley and they are nigh unto impossible to find used. You'd have to buy one new.

Factories who put 4bbls on their motors usually always used the generic 600 cfm carbs because they were cheaper. If one of those is set up (jetted and metered) for the 302, they will work, they are just not ideal for the somewhat limited airflow of a 302 marine application.

All that being said, they can still provide a signifcant increase in power over the 2 bbl, w/ stock heads. Just make sure any 600 you get is set up for the 302, not a 351 or 350, otherwise you would be overcarbed. Holley uses 'list' numbers, stamped into the air horn, to identify what motor they were set up for. If you find a used one you can call Holley and ask them.

Oh, and if you go to a 4bbl, learn throttle discipline. While 4 bbls, running on the smaller primary venturis, are as economical as a 2bbl, you get constanly happy on the throttle and you will pay.:eek:

If you do go to the aftermarket 4bbl intake, you will find the suitable Edelbrock to be the least expensive and the easiest to find used. Here are a couple of links.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Parts-Accessories___Edelbrock-performer-289-Ford-8-2-deck-intake_W0QQitemZ180316851899QQddnZPartsQ20Q26Q20AccessoriesQQddiZ2811QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRace_Car_Parts?hash=item180316851899&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A543%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Parts-Accessories___EDELBROCK-PERFORMER-289-INTAKE-2121-260-289-302-FORD_W0QQitemZ180316848141QQddnZPartsQ20Q26Q20AccessoriesQQddiZ2811QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item180316848141&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A543%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318
 

BarryT

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Dec 29, 2008
Messages
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Re: Engine replacement question

I have the four barrel 215hp version. My engine comes stock with a holley 450cfm 4 barrel carb.

-barry
 

WizeOne

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Mar 23, 2008
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Re: Engine replacement question

I have the four barrel 215hp version. My engine comes stock with a holley 450cfm 4 barrel carb.

-barry

I forgot about that. You have the ideal carb and I would just stick with your OEM iron intake. Those are very hard to come by and maybe not as good as an Edelbrock Performer (or equiv) but very durable.

One thing I would do if you end up having to get a new shortblock is to gasket match the intake and exhaust ports of your cylinder heads. This is very easy to do and really smooths out the flow. You can have the machinist clean up the bowls but you don't need to pay him to do the gasket matching of the ports. You also should cut the thermactor bumps, in the exhaust ports, down flat.

I think we talked about flat top pistons if you need the shortblock?
 

Mercathode

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Jun 8, 2004
Messages
210
Re: Engine replacement question

You might asked the question, how much more power (hole shot, midrange, and WOT) performance will I get for the money from the stock 302 to one with mods or a 351. You may spend several hundreds or more and the gains be minimal. Sometimes we can gain more horsepower but lose torque or increase the RPM at which max torgue is acheived. On a big rig like your 'velle you might want to consider torque in the equation as well. Is this boat a Caravelle "Wahoo?"
 

BarryT

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Dec 29, 2008
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Re: Engine replacement question

It is a 21' caravelle cuddy cruiser

-barry
 

WizeOne

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Mar 23, 2008
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Re: Engine replacement question

It is a 21' caravelle cuddy cruiser

-barry

IMHO, all the more reason to get a 331 stroker shortblock. Heavy boat, more cubes w/ torque producing longer stroke, all original peripheral parts will fit the stroker, no extra weight and bulk, no hassle to find additional parts=110%
 

BarryT

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Dec 29, 2008
Messages
44
Re: Engine replacement question

Well hopefully my poor 302 isn't trashed. If its not then I have more money for a 331 stroker and a rebuild :) I have a full shop at my disposal so i might be able to install it my self. Don't know if I want to venture into that deep of water though.


-barry
 

mrflip2

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Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
48
Re: Engine replacement question

I did this last year. I bought a 1977 Sea ray with a 233 hp ford (351)
the motor mounts are the same it bolted up perfectly no issues at I thought. Then I went to hook up the exhaust didn't realize the Y pipe was wider under no circumstance could I get the new exhaust hose to hook up. As I didn't want to take engine out for the fifth time I had a forklift to take it out but I had to remove exhast manifolds and dizzy to install. I had the 233 y pipe that had three allan screws to remove I was able to get in and remove while was still in boat Thanks Don S for that info. The boat I have is a 1973 jolly roger yes that is the manufacturer. This boat is 17 feet long and is able to go 63 on the gps with his engine. Oh by the way I left the 888 outdrive in after the installation. This is a great combo no problems at all other than rust in gas tank that clogs line which is another issue altogether. Hope you have no problems with 302 but if you need on I have one sitting in the shed.
 

BarryT

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
44
Re: Engine replacement question

I did this last year. I bought a 1977 Sea ray with a 233 hp ford (351)
the motor mounts are the same it bolted up perfectly no issues at I thought. Then I went to hook up the exhaust didn't realize the Y pipe was wider under no circumstance could I get the new exhaust hose to hook up. As I didn't want to take engine out for the fifth time I had a forklift to take it out but I had to remove exhast manifolds and dizzy to install. I had the 233 y pipe that had three allan screws to remove I was able to get in and remove while was still in boat Thanks Don S for that info. The boat I have is a 1973 jolly roger yes that is the manufacturer. This boat is 17 feet long and is able to go 63 on the gps with his engine. Oh by the way I left the 888 outdrive in after the installation. This is a great combo no problems at all other than rust in gas tank that clogs line which is another issue altogether. Hope you have no problems with 302 but if you need on I have one sitting in the shed.


Pm'd you.

Last question. I have the 1972 215hp model 302. What drive system do I have. I have the service manual that covers several units. It is service manual 1 book 1. My drive has 215 printed on it also. Is that the model of my drive system. In my book I have listed 215H and 215E or is it MCI, MCII? I am confused. There is to much snow outside for me to be investigating my self.

-barry
 

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
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Aug 31, 2004
Messages
62,321
Re: Engine replacement question

Do you have a transmission between the engine and transom shield?
 

BarryT

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
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Re: Engine replacement question

I guess I need to check. I am pretty new at this. My father inlaw gave this boat to me. I know I can rev the boat with out going any where. So maybe. it seems to have neutral.


-barry
 

Don S

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Aug 31, 2004
Messages
62,321
Re: Engine replacement question

They ALL have a neutral, and a shifter. What you have to do is look and see if there is a transmission behind the engine, or if the shifting is done in the drive, but now I'm not sure you can tell.
Can you post some pictures of the drive and the area behind the engine?
 

BarryT

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
44
Re: Engine replacement question

will do!. I will take some when I brush the snow off the cover today.


_barry
 
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