Why don't we have 'newer' technology in marine motors?

[gregtay]

Question for everyone (and maybe it has been discussed before.) I am slightly baffled that I have 1999 motor on my boat that uses points, cap, rotor, a carb, etc. I know EFI is an option now (and was when i purchased my boat) but it just seems like i/o's haven't really progressed much over the years. We use old engine technology that doesn't seem all that reliable. (Inboards and outboards seem to have a lot of new technology, but not I/O Sterndrives... i am not sure there is much difference from a 1980 merc 5.0 and a 2006 merc 5.0.

Why is raw water cooling the norm? just seems like a bad idea when a fresh water/heat exchanger just seems like a much better idea. And I understand stern drives have a very complex task to do, but it just seems that we could come up with something a bit more reliable these days.

I know my Toyota truck is always going to start and i don't worry about seals going out, gears stripping, overheating, or 'lossing power at WOT'. I spend A LOT more time maintaining my boat than i do my truck.

I have been reading these forums and sometimes it just seems like there are a lot of common probelms is i/o's.... is it time to engineer a new soution that is a bit more reliable?

Just curious to hear what people think (and I am sure someone has and answer as to why what we have today is as good as it is going to get, etc.)

Last question... why don't Merc and Volvo use a new engine design? GM, Ford, Chevy, Toyota, Nissan, ect have lots of new engines and i wouldn't think it would take that much to use them in a marine applciation (Toyota used their V8 in their Epic, etc.)

 

[lilmandavis]

Re: Why don't we have 'newer' technology in marine motors?

you can get whatever you want in a boat. the thing is noone will pay more for the good upgrades. its all expensive now, why make it twice as much. the money spent in engineering and production outweigh the retail proffits i guess?

 

[Limited-Time]

Re: Why don't we have 'newer' technology in marine motors?

Low volume sales=high retail cost. Divide a million dollars in R&D over the number of autos that utilize the new technology and it's not a huge cost. Now take a smaller company investing a million dollars in R&D and divide it over, maybe 10% of the sales volume and you get a product no one can afford.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Why don't we have 'newer' technology in marine motors?

what do ya mean no new technology? you could have ordered that rig with EFI and full fresh water cooling for another 2500 or so.
and this year there are 3 more new EFI setups avalible. volvo is giving up AC/Delco electronics and going with a private firm for the electronics and merc is going to a new GM set up as is indmar and a few others.
however now none of my software,scantools or engine adapters fit so it will require about 3500 dollars worth of stuff to access the systems,not to mention yet more schools.
but a well maintained carb/point rig will last just as long as a modern EFI rig ya just have to understand how to operate it.
its all about the money.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Why don't we have 'newer' technology in marine motors?

I have 1999 motor on my boat that uses points, cap, rotor, a carb, etc.

Just What are you running,..??......

Mercruiser quit using Points Years ago.......

 

[tommays]

Re: Why don't we have 'newer' technology in marine motors?

The Horizon motors seem pretty advanced to me

A bad install or bad owner can still ruin one pretty quick

I find boating to be closer to off roading in how harsh the conditions are that they have to survive in


And Volvo IPS and Merc Zues are sure pushing the edge


Tommays

 

[calwldlif]

Re: Why don't we have 'newer' technology in marine motors?

:'(

 

[newport dave]

Re: Why don't we have 'newer' technology in marine motors?

There are a few lower end marine engines that still use older technology (I wasn't aware of any that still use ponts and condenser), but those are rapidly disappearing.

In the last five years, we have seen the marine engines using DIS (Distributorless Ignition), Sequential Port Fuel Injection, advanced engine self preservation and self diagnostic systems such as the ECM/PCM555, CAN (Controller Area Network) equipped engines, and new base engines such as GM's 8.1/496.

Volvo just started using thier new CAN capable ECM (called EGC) and Indmar is using the brand new GM MEFI5 system that is based on thier current automotive ECMs.

But just wait, starting next year marine engines will have complete emission control systems using catalytic converters and oxygen sensors. The fun is just beginning.

Dave

 

[QC]

Re: Why don't we have 'newer' technology in marine motors?

There is also the marketing benefits of having multiple reasons for you to spend more money. Cheapy carbed stuff gives them low cost entry models and then you get to choose multiple ways to spend more money when you realise how much they suck . . .

I got my first EFI (TBI) 5.7 in '95. No start-up hassles, no idle issues, no fuel system maintenance except filters for 8 years and over 500 hours. Of course I paid a little more. I spent that same time lusting after an MPI system, which I have now. Seems like their marketing of higher tech worked on me . . .

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Why don't we have 'newer' technology in marine motors?

The auto makers were driven to fuel injection and computer control by emission standards and fuel economy mandates. Since the same standards didn't apply to marine engines, the technology didn't transfer at the same rate. As the previous poster mentioned, all that R&D cost money and all that gets passed on to the price of the motor.

Since there are basically only 2 competitors out there(Volvo and Merc) the total price of the boat/motor combo gets calculated and the lower priced unit is usually the one selected regardless of the technology on the engine.

 

[KaGee]

Re: Why don't we have 'newer' technology in marine motors?

I don't understand... what is it that makes RWC and point ignitions un-reliable? The owner who does not maintain them?

 

[gregtay]

Re: Why don't we have 'newer' technology in marine motors?

I don't understand... what is it that makes RWC and point ignitions un-reliable? The owner who does not maintain them?

I think you are missing the point. My boat IS reliable (no issues for 7 years) because I do maintain it. But I shoudn't have to replace parts on my motor every year... with today's technology and engineering advancements i shouldn't have to do a "tune up" after a 20-40 hr season of very light use (very little WOT, etc.) For me... i guess i enjoy the extra work because i like getting my hands dirty and maintaining my boat... still looks and runs like the day i bought it.. and have NEVER spent a night outside.

I only asked this questions because marine motors are expensive and you get older technology. It was reading all the "leaking outdrive", "loss of power at WOT", "overheating", "won't start" threads that got me thinking about this.

Just curious... can anyone out there with experiance with Honda outboards comment on their reliability?

 

[tommays]

Re: Why don't we have 'newer' technology in marine motors?

A honda will turn to junk if you dont do the matiance the same as any other machine

The 1977 correct craft in the avatar did 28 years trailering in saltwater on the RWC orginal motor HOW much better could anybody expect


A saltwater environment is and extreme place to put machinery and will allways require a higher level of matiance than a machine in a nice place like a fresh water lake


Tommays

 

[Bondo]

Re: Why don't we have 'newer' technology in marine motors?

I only asked this questions because marine motors are expensive and you get older technology. It was reading all the "leaking outdrive", "loss of power at WOT", "overheating", "won't start" threads that got me thinking about this.

IF motors and drives Lasted like You Think they Should,........
Without Maintance,............

This would be a Very Lonely forum,...
Instead of the Most Popular, Fastest, Most Informed,+ just the Greatest Engine/ Drive forum in the World..........

People with boats that Run,........
Rarely post Questions about How to Fix their Stuff..........
That's Why you see the Questions that you Do............

As for the Whys,.......
How often do you carry Gasoline to your Car, In A Gas Can,..??.....
How often do you have Water Splashing All over your Fuel Fill in your Car,..??.....
How often do you park your Car,..... For 9 Months a Year,..??.....
How often do you Run Over Rock Piles with your Car,..??.....

Comparing a Car to a Boat is Most Definitely Apples,+ Oranges....................

 

[gregtay]

Re: Why don't we have 'newer' technology in marine motors?

I only asked this questions because marine motors are expensive and you get older technology. It was reading all the "leaking outdrive", "loss of power at WOT", "overheating", "won't start" threads that got me thinking about this.

IF motors and drives Lasted like You Think they Should,........
Without Maintance,............

This would be a Very Lonely forum,...
Instead of the Most Popular, Fastest, Most Informed,+ just the Greatest Engine/ Drive forum in the World..........

People with boats that Run,........
Rarely post Questions about How to Fix their Stuff..........
That's Why you see the Questions that you Do............

As for the Whys,.......
How often do you carry Gasoline to your Car, In A Gas Can,..??.....
How often do you have Water Splashing All over your Fuel Fill in your Car,..??.....
How often do you park your Car,..... For 9 Months a Year,..??.....
How often do you Run Over Rock Piles with your Car,..??.....

Comparing a Car to a Boat is Most Definitely Apples,+ Oranges....................

All good points and i understand. But from everyones comments it seems to come down to engineering cost vs. volume vs. profit.

BTW ... (I do drive my Toyota over rock piles and i park my Z for 6 months out of the year, but i see your point.) I love in Seattle and my cars are in the "water" all the time, but i suppose if they sucked the water up off the street into the cooling system... well.. then that would be considered a bad design.

 

[calwldlif]

Re: Why don't we have 'newer' technology in marine motors?

Most everyone here responding
has touched on the complex reasons.

My opey onion is if the smog and
fuel issues never got started we would still
be using very simple engines,,,,why?
Because it is easier to Warranty and
give reliability.

 

[Limited-Time]

Re: Why don't we have 'newer' technology in marine motors?

Maybe a better question is how can a marine engine benefit from the newer technology with regards to less maintenance, more HP, and better fuel economy. How about a marine engine that will run the equivalent of GM's 100,000 miles on routine maintenance, basically oil and filter changes. How about a raw water pump that’s scheduled maintenance is in the 5 to 7 year range, coupled with an elastomer (bellows) that would have the same. I’m sure the list can go on and on.

 

[DHPMARINE]

Re: Why don't we have 'newer' technology in marine motors?

I wonder how auto engines would stand up if they were run at full rpm 90% of the time.Probably see bad things happening there too.Also auto drive trains probably wouldn't take that kind of rpm without seal failure and bearings going.

Actually it is interesting how well I/O engines hold up to what they do.

An I/O with points ignition probably needs a tune up once a year.Sierra parts about $15.00.I don't think that's a hardship.It also makes the boat affordable,so more people can join the boating world.

The space age stuff is out there,and I feel it is more for the experienced boater,and certainly the more affluent!
Volvo has a nice unit with the prop (s ?) on the front of the drive.That's technology.And it's available to everyone.Did I mention available only with twin deisels,and over 30 ft if I remember correctly.

Maybe a set of points once a year ain't really all that shabby.

DHP

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Why don't we have 'newer' technology in marine motors?

I only asked this questions because marine motors are expensive and you get older technology. It was reading all the "leaking outdrive", "loss of power at WOT", "overheating", "won't start" threads that got me thinking about this.

IF motors and drives Lasted like You Think they Should,........
Without Maintance,............

This would be a Very Lonely forum,...
Instead of the Most Popular, Fastest, Most Informed,+ just the Greatest Engine/ Drive forum in the World..........

People with boats that Run,........
Rarely post Questions about How to Fix their Stuff..........
That's Why you see the Questions that you Do............

As for the Whys,.......
How often do you carry Gasoline to your Car, In A Gas Can,..??.....
How often do you have Water Splashing All over your Fuel Fill in your Car,..??.....
How often do you park your Car,..... For 9 Months a Year,..??.....
How often do you Run Over Rock Piles with your Car,..??.....

Comparing a Car to a Boat is Most Definitely Apples,+ Oranges....................

Agreed most of the engine's being use now in the car ind today are really nothing new, Look @ dodge's hemi 8) its a 60's rework even Ford's triton series are just cut down old 427's (Remeber the thunderbird) true they have bolted on overhead cam's and changed the timing a bit.....and chevy going back to the 327 (over squared bore) old tech but work's great

Efi has been a great improvement and is readily avaible thourght out most mfg lines if you pay for it. However the new CVT tranny that's poking its head out would be a huge gain if they could incorprate it into boats. Think of it a trans that could keep the prop at the Engine's top rpm and tourqe load with infinte gearing for different load application's now that along with Efi would be a stunning achievement.

 

[DukesFin]

Re: Why don't we have 'newer' technology in marine motors?

Different question but similar answer:

I am asked by "non-boaters" why in the H$&& I drive a boat that only gets around 4mpg and seems to always have maintenance issues...

Answer I give them: Run your car in 1st gear everywhere you go... All the time... No matter what... Now, leave your car sitting for a few months out of the year and oh... Run a hose to the ground so it can suck up water from the street (in the Northern US for the salt), so it can keep your engine cool.

They usually understand after that then ask me to take them fishing!

Oh - I forgot to add: Make your car a 1974 model and you don't know who owned it before you or if they did any maintenance at all on it! :%