Which Motor? 130-150HP

[14riverrat2]

I have a 21' hardtop with a cutty cabin, weight 2250# (boat only). Max rated 175HP. The boat is used about 90% of the time in saltwater (Puget Sound to Strait of Georgia) with occasional runs of 100 miles or more. I've narrowed my engine choices down to the following (in alphabetical order):<br /><br />Honda 130hp 4 stroke<br />Evinrude 150 Fight 2 stroke<br />Yahama 150 HPDI 2 stroke<br /><br />One of the above engines will be used with a small Honda kicker. (not the problem - an easy choice).<br /><br />My concerns in order of importance are:<br /><br />1. Reliability - I don't particularly care how fast I get there. But rather how fast I get home.<br /><br />2. Noise - I want a reasonably quite engine.<br /><br />3. Performance - Good throttle response, quick to plane, ability to cruise with little effort at various speeds from 18 to 35 mph, and overall smooth operation. <br /><br />4. Fuel Economy<br /><br />I've always felt boats powered in the 80-90% range of max rated HP perform best. This leads me to think that the Honda (especially in light of its weight) might under power the boat?<br /><br />Johnson, Mercury, Suzuki are not a choice!!!<br /><br />What about 2 vs 4 stroke in terms of performance and longevity?<br /><br />I welcome any and all comments/opinions on which motor would be the best pick.<br /><br />I would especially like to hear from someone who's had on the water experience with both the Yamaha and Evinrude on the same boat. <br /><br />So guys, what-d-ha think will work best???

 

[omctech]

Re: Which Motor? 130-150HP

Go with the Honda. A good friend of mine is the largest Honda dealer in Missouri. Has only had one powerhead failure out of all sold in the last 4 yrs!! Fuel economy is great, dependability will speak for itself.

 

[14riverrat2]

Re: Which Motor? 130-150HP

Couldn't agree with you more on the dependability of the Honda. It's really quiet and the fuel econ is probably ok. My only concern is that with 4 or more people, 70 gals of gas and gear, it might be a bit sluggish. What are your thoughts?

 

[MIKE F]

Re: Which Motor? 130-150HP

I'd go with either of the other two.You'd have 20 more HP and get better performance with the 2S over the 4S (I think so anyway).<br />Ficht and HPDI are both great on fuel economy.Noise - I doubt either would be as quiet as the Honda.I really think you need at least 150HP on a 21'cutty cabin.

 

[14riverrat2]

Re: Which Motor? 130-150HP

Thanks omctech & Mike F for your input!! Looks like nothing beats the Honda on dependability, but I'd probably like the performance of the 150 HP.<br /><br />So, between the Evinrude and Yamaha, which is more dependable and offers the best performance?

 

[captsara]

Re: Which Motor? 130-150HP

If I may ask, have you considered a pair of DF70's or DF80's by Suzuki.

 

[14riverrat2]

Re: Which Motor? 130-150HP

I did considered a pair of Suzuki DF70's but decided againist them after hearing a multitude of horror stories relating to reliability. The people you have them and don't have trouble seem to absolutety love them. But the ones that have trouble (and there are many) say they would never buy another. I'm not aware of a DF80. The info I have says it jumps from 70 to 90, nothing in between. If you have Susuki's or experience with them I'd be interested in hearing your comments and about your application. <br /><br />Also considered twin Yahama 4S's. 80's won't fit, not enough room, and 60's are a bit under powered. That's more or less left me with the Honda or 150 2S's.<br /><br />Any thoughts on Evinrude vs. Yamaha?

 

[Fouled Plug]

Re: Which Motor? 130-150HP

Salty Spray, I live a bit north of you in Ketchikan. I've said this before, but there are tons of charter and sport fishing boats here and the vast majority run Yammy's. We have a Merc dealer, and a J&E/Suzuki dealer, but the Yamaha guy gets the bulk of the business. Mostly 2 strokes, but a few of the new 4's are showing up on transoms as well. Our boats get used hard and often in some pretty wild conditions, and the Yamahas seem to be the motor that has met the challenge the best. Just my 2 cent's worth!

 

[14riverrat2]

Re: Which Motor? 130-150HP

Fouled Plug, thanks for your 2 cent's. I see more Yammy's runnin' round down here than any other motor. And the shortage of truly negative tales seems to speak volumes on there dependability.<br /><br />Anybody got any thoughts on the 150 Evinrude?

 

[captsara]

Re: Which Motor? 130-150HP

I've heard that the legs are soft on the Honda's. I've had my share of trouble with my Suzuki DF70's, Your probably right but 80's not existing. I run a commercial boat and I wouldn't trade my suzuki's, they've been good to me.

 

[14riverrat2]

Re: Which Motor? 130-150HP

Maui girl, thanks for the reply. Sounds like you're running twin 70's but I'm confused You said you've had your share of troubles but wouldn't trade motors that they've been good to you. What kind of problems have you had and why wouldn't you trade? Are you running offshore? How far? Also, what kind/size boat? I'm a twin fan but a little shy of the Suzuki's in light of the mixed reviews. 70 Zuki's are the only twins with enough pep that will fit on my boat. Sorry about the 20 questions, just curious about the details.<br /><br />Your probably right about the Honda.<br />It's snowing here - how's your weather?<br /><br />Anybody have any thoughts or experience with the Fight engine?

 

[MIKE F]

Re: Which Motor? 130-150HP

Salty Spray<br />As far as the performance and reliability of Yamaha and Evinrude. I've hardly ever heard any negative comments on Yamaha.Evinrude probablyOK now that Bombardier has taken over although I believe the 150HP's were okay anyway.Performance about the same? Pretty vague answers huh? What is your boat powered by now? Re-rigging costs can really add up.

 

[14riverrat2]

Re: Which Motor? 130-150HP

Mike F, Actually it's a new boat. I just haven't settled on a motor yet so rigging at this point is not an issue. Good point though. Changing motors down the line is an expensive proposition, especially if its because you're not happy with you're first choice, one reason I want to get it right the first time.<br /><br />I agree on the Yammy's - you just don't hear much bad about them.<br /><br />Here's the deal though, my dealer handles Rude's and John's but says he can basically put whatever I want on the boat. But before I tell him I do or don't want a Rude, I'd like to hear some comments about them from guys that have some experience with them. Specifically the 135, 150 or 175 Fight, 2001 or later. I just not hearing alot about them. I know Evinrude has sold some of these motors and somebody out there owns one. Come on guys share some opinions. Thanks to all so far!

 

[CAPTBLACKSMARINE]

Re: Which Motor? 130-150HP

THE FICHTS ARE EXCELLENT ENGINES MOST PROBLEMS THAT THEY EXPERIENCED IN THE LAST YEAR UNDER OMC WERE QUALITY CONTROL PROBLEMS NOT DESIGN FLAWS THE ENGINES REALLY PERFORMED GREAT AND NOW THAT BOMB HAS BOUGHT IT THE QUALITY CONTROL PROBLEMS HAVE VANISHED IN SHORT I HAVE HAD THEM ON MY BOAT AND WOULD NOT HESITATE TO PUT THEM ON MY NEXT AS FOR SUZUKI THEY ARE ALSO GREAT MOTORS WE RUN THEM ON ABOUT 15 RENTAL BOATS HERE AND RARELY TOUCH THEM FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN ROUTINE MAINTENANCE I AM CURRENTLY RIGGING A 23 STAMAS WITH TWIN SUZUKI DF70'S FOR A CUSTOMER KEEP WATCHING AND I WILL LET YOU KNOW HOW IT TURNS OUT .

 

[14riverrat2]

Re: Which Motor? 130-150HP

CaptBlack, Thanks for the reply. If you don't mind my asking, which HP and year Fight did you run on your boat? Also, if you had any problems at all I would be interested in the details.<br />What HP Suzuki's on the rentals?<br />Definitely interested in hearing more about the Stamas. Keep me posted. Thanks.

 

[Brento311]

Re: Which Motor? 130-150HP

Hi, if I were you I would go with the Evinrude just because it has been around so long, and is a reliable outboard. We still have an Evinrude in our family from the 1940s, and it runs fine. The Honda is also a great motor, but if you want something with a little more pep, I would go with the Evinrude.

 

[14riverrat2]

Re: Which Motor? 130-150HP

Thanks Brent311, I too grew up around the old Evinrudes, great motors! Ran forever. We owned several in differing HP's and with proper maintenance never had a problem. However, a lot has changed in recent years regarding this make engine. They not the same motor they used to be. Would anybody else out there buy a new Fight 150? Why?

 

[62_Kiwi]

Re: Which Motor? 130-150HP

Hi Salty Spray - I'm not an engine expert, but am curious as to why you said in the opening post that you would not look at Johnson, Mercury or Suzuki?<br /><br />From what I understand, today's Johnson models (if you can locate them) are very much similar to the Evinrude models before they went to Ficht - which would make them well-proven reliable workhorses, if not state of the art (I say this in referal to your comments to Brent311). Like you I have a "trusting" relationship with Evinrude and Johnson - pre Ficht. I don't know enough about Ficht to comment, although I read a lot of posts that say the problems on these are sorted now.<br /><br />My 1st choice would therefore be Johnson 150 because it's a "new classic" - recently built motor, classic design, no risks in the technogy and will be thought of always as a great reliable workhorse motor. I only go for newer technolgy once it's not so new (say 3 years) so they've already ironed out all the wrinkles in the design. Therefore I'd wait a while more before buying an Evinrude Ficht (just my personal leaning and I'm no expert).<br /> <br /><br />By the way, I see Bombardier are now showing the look of their 2002 models on http://www.johnson.com and http://www.evinrude.com <br /><br />Mercury and Suzuki have strong supporters too. As I say, I'm just curious as to your thinking on these models that you've ruled out.

 

[14riverrat2]

Re: Which Motor? 130-150HP

Hi 62_Kiwi, Well, you asked, so here goes. Actually, good question - I'll try to answer. I too am certainally not an expert on the newer motors. All I know is what I've been able to piece together from talking to a lot of different people both in and out of the industry and from the Internet forums such as this. <br /><br />It is my understanding that the Johnson 2s, 150 and 175 HP are basicaly carbureted versions of the Rude Fight 150 and 175HP. And that the performance (emissions, fuel economy, throttle response, etc.) of the Fight direct injection engine is somewhat better than that of the carbureted engines. That, combined with the fact that I have always been a little more partial to Evinrude (strictly personal opinion) caused me to eliminate Johnson 2s's. <br /><br />The only Johnson 4s's in the proper HP range would be twin 70HP's. That engine is a Suzuki with a Johnson Hood. Suzuki makes that engine for Johnson - same as Suzuki DF70. See Suzuki below!<br /><br />Sticking with direct injection 2S's held me to look at the Merc. Optimax. I've heard various problems still plague this engine. It's getting better - but all bugs not out. Not being a big Merc fan anyway I moved on.<br /><br />No Merc 4S twins will fit on my transom , not enough room.<br /><br />Suzuki? Mechanics I talked with, that were candid, told me of cam shaft and lower unit gear problems. These problems have been cofirmed for me by postings on this forum.<br /><br />See <br /> http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=17&t=005987 <br /> http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=17&t=006692 <br /><br />Please understand that these are my personal opinions based on what I've learned from talking with others. I know that there are people out there that have the above metioned motors, have not had any problems with them and are perfectly happy. I wish them well.<br /><br />It's late and I'am half asleep. Hope this makes some sense. Would like to here others response. All feedback welcome. Thanks 62_Kiwi.

 

[62_Kiwi]

Re: Which Motor? 130-150HP

Salty Spray - Thanks for your comprehensive reply. It's interesting for the rest of us to know what's going on in your decision process, as we all buy boat engines from time to time too.<br /><br />Another small consideration is whether your boat dealer may be better at servicing or obtaining parts of one brand over another (maybe not, but might pay to check if you havent already).<br /><br />Good luck with your new boat and whichever motor you choose.