When did Merc take over Force?

[johnson-liner]

I tried searching for this since it seems I've run across a thread about it before, but didn't find it. Here's the story..<br /><br />I'm looking for a 18-20' walk-around and have found a 92 Trophy 20 footer that I really like. UNFORTUNATELY, it still has the Force 120 on it which I'm not sure what to think about. Seller says he's had good luck with it, but obviously I would only take the rig after sea trial and compression check on all cyliners, etc. All in all....the whole package seems to have been taken care of really well.<br /><br />I had a '87 50hp force on the dingy that I'm running now, replaced with a Johnson after the force bit the dust twice. <br /><br />Seems like it was '92 when Merc took them over, but I'm not completely sure on that. Can anyone let me know? Also, when they did take over, were there any real changes made to the outboards or were they just "rebadged"? Thanks

 

[phatmanmike]

Re: When did Merc take over Force?

run away

 

[Laddies]

Re: When did Merc take over Force?

Mercury did not own force. Brunswick owned both companys some later Force engines used some Mercury ign. parts, but they were never same manufacture, two completely differant engines--Bob

 

[roscoe]

Re: When did Merc take over Force?

UsMarine was bought out in 89.<br />They were bought out by Mercury as evidenced by the id plates on the motors, which read "Mercury Marine". Some id tags did read "Mercury Marine, a Brunwich Corp." And by the engine decals, some of which read "Force by Mercury Marine".<br /><br />So beginning with the 1990 production year, they were owned by Mercury. <br /><br />Not many changes were made in the first year or two.<br /><br />Some models were unchanged for several years like the 9.9 and 15, and the 40 and 50. Mercury used old stock and existing parts lines from other motors to upgrade them. Some models received ignition upgrades, or tilt n trim upgrades, or had lower units replaced with units from earlier Mercury and Mariner models.<br /><br />More changes came in later years like 94 and 95. Even more changes in 96, and a few in 99. <br /><br />My 1995 70 hp is based off an old block, with the Mercury Thunderbolt ignition and charging system from the 80's, a newer tilt n trim unit with Merc components, a lower unit from the 80's Mariner 40-50-60 hp line, a newer "square" styled fuel pump, a Merc starter.<br /><br />Sorry I can't tell you what changes were made in the 1992 120 model other than lower unit, and probably tnt and ignition.<br /><br />I would view and use the Force as a big negative in the negotiations on that rig. If it is in decent running order and you can get it cheap enough it may be ok for a while, but plan on replacing the motor when it dies, as it would be near impossible to justify the cost of major repairs. Good luck if it was run in saltwater.

 

[johnson-liner]

Re: When did Merc take over Force?

Thanks for the info. No salt by the way. So roscoe, of the LU, tnt and ignition that you mentioned....could you say for sure whether one or all of these updates made it to the '92 120 or are ya just basing the possibility on what was done with the other models? Is there anything specific I can look for myself to know if there were changes like badging on the parts, part colors, etc? <br /><br />The name on that engine is big pricing issue to me with the past experience I had with the 50 and the seller is aware of that factor. Just trying to get a grasp on what kind impact Merc buying US marine really had by 1992. Thanks again

 

[Solittle]

Re: When did Merc take over Force?

I would base an offer as though the motor was not included.

 

[JRJ]

Re: When did Merc take over Force?

What SoLittle said. The owner knows his package is a problem sell and should make you a fair deal.<br />Good luck.

 

[roscoe]

Re: When did Merc take over Force?

Also what SoLittle and JRJ said. Hopefully you can get it for a song and the motor will last a few years without any major expense, but don't count on it.<br /><br />I think one of the first things they changed on the 120 was to replace the lower unit. The old one had the exhaust snout and did not have thru hub exhaust. The new one had thru hub exhaust.<br /><br />If it has a Merc tnt system, it should have a small pump and motot with a large hex plug about half way up. <br /><br />If you go to the mercruiser parts website, they have exploded diagrams of all the Force motors, and you could compare the 1989 to the 1992 to the 1996, etc.<br /><br /> http://www.mercruiserparts.com/selectModels2.asp?type_id=FORC <br /><br /><br />Actually it looks like the 1990 thru 1994 models years were a real hodgepodge of parts for the 120hp. 3 different tnt systems, a couple different fuel pump designs, different fuel recirculation designs, different carbs, and different ignitions. Looks like late 1992 had a lot of parts changes on the models made after production run "c".<br /><br />Yeah, might as well steer clear of this deal, unless you are willing to repower. It may run fine for a while, .... but.....

 

[CoachHolland]

Re: When did Merc take over Force?

The problem with the Force is that most people that bought them were new boaters that had no clue as to how to take care of a motor. If it was taken care of, then there is no reason to think that it's going to die on you anytime soon as long as you take care of it too. You're looking at the right things. Check the compression, do a water trial and such.<br /><br />The main factor here is if the price is right on the boat and motor compared to other boats out there with different engines. If it was a comparably powered Mecury on the back of it, you would obviously have to pay more for it. If the motor that is on there now was taken care of, I see no reason why you shouldn't get plenty more years of service out of it. There's plenty of older Force and even older Chryslers still in service out on the water.

 

[Laddies]

Re: When did Merc take over Force?

The problem with Force was they weren't a particularly a good unit when new and only got worst

 

[rodbolt]

Re: When did Merc take over Force?

biggest problem I ever had with forsce was ign. did not get any better when merc had them. most force buyers were already so over financed that maint was out of the question. kinda like most buyers of maxums,trophy's and such with 3.0 mercruisers. the maint required on a force was and is rather high but if done fanatically they seemed to last ok. water pumps,pressurecontrols, t-stats, head gaskets recirc system and fuel pumps were a constant maint item. seems the head gaskets tended to fail about every 3 years for no reason. but we found that at the start of every 3rd year if we just replaced them it was not an issue. that is replace them before they failed and watered the engine internals. if run at or near WOT they tend to chip reeds. a 3 year replacement cycle prevents this. decent engines but maint intensive.

 

[johnson-liner]

Re: When did Merc take over Force?

Just wanted to thank you guys for your insight on this. Going for a first hand inspection today in Buffalo with all my tools in hand. <br /><br />His price is just about on target for what I'd pay for it with a Force, basically the value of only the boat. As long as the boat itself is in as good of condition as described and in the pics, hopefully I can at least get some time out of the Force. If not, I'll have the leftover cash to repower if I need to in the future. <br /><br />As long as everything checks out and he'll come down a little more, I'll be excited. Thanks again.