What is the proper ski and rope set up?

[Thad]

Here's the skinny.

My daughter is wanting to get a lot better at slalom skiing. We got her an O'Brian that she took to immidiately last weekend. Said it is a lot easier to get out on and much more comfortable for her. But she hates the rope. It is just a cheapie from the store. We are novice skiers and do not really know what more to tell her or what to get her.

She gets out and when she wants to cut back, the rope is all kinds of slacked. She tries to ride it out more, but the rope doesn't catch up. She tried to just let the slack pull out but when it does, it yanks her out of her ski.
So, I have been looking at ropes and they have several different types and lengths and some have bungie or give in them or what ever. Any ideas on which rope to get her?

Also, she has decided that she wants a ski with a boot?. Is she getting a little ahead of herself? She is determined and very athletic (and a show off) if that helps. She is 15, 5'11" and under 140#. (Never ask a female her weight)

Any tips, ideas, or advice would be great.

 

[convergent]

Re: What is the proper ski and rope set up?

I don't think its the rope that is the cause of the slack. It is after all, just a piece of rope. I think its more about angles and when she turns. I'm a novice too, but in my view its the skiers fault if there is slack in the rope (unlike with tubing where its the drivers fault).

 

[oldjeep]

Re: What is the proper ski and rope set up?

She is getting slack because she is turning wrong, has nothing to do with the rope unless you are using a bungie jumping cord

This is a pretty good thread on how to solve the problem.
http://www.proskicoach.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=350



When you say she wants a boot - do you mean a better front binding or a rear boot?

 

[Thad]

Re: What is the proper ski and rope set up?

When you say she wants a boot - do you mean a better front binding or a rear boot?

Not quite sure. I will have her show me the ski she thinks she wants tonight and tell you in the morning.

Thanks.

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: What is the proper ski and rope set up?

There are many professional skiers that still use a rear toe plate instead of a full binding. The danger of using the rear binding is that during a wipe-out, it's easier to twist a knee/ankle when the ski doesn't release (think snow skiing when the boot doesn't release). Also, having two boots makes it very difficult to put the ski on in the water, most of the tournament riders use a lubricant to get their foot into the binding. Having a front boot is fine though, but I don't recommend the rear boot unless she is having issues with her foot slipping out.

As for the rope problem, I doubt there is much wrong with the rope. You can find a sectioned rope/handle combo for less than 50', but if she does any better it will likely be placebo effect. She needs to keep leaning out on the turns so that the rope doesn't get any slack, then lean back hard on the cut to maintain the line. It's purely a technique thing.

 

[Thad]

Re: What is the proper ski and rope set up?

So pretty much she will just get better the more she does it?

She "says" she is not affraid of loosing it, so should we encourage her do dig harder and push her "comfort zone"?

What about ski length? If we are going to drop major coin for another new ski, I want to make sure it is right for her.

The rear binder sounds pretty dangerous, I think she will just stay with a front. She does not have any issue with her foot comming out, I think it is just her wanting to "show off" kinda like..."hey, look at me".

I'm thinking now maybe she doesn't need a new ski at all.

What is the purpose of the ropes that can be shortened? If anything, she wants to get out farther from the boat to the smoother wake.

 

[oldjeep]

Re: What is the proper ski and rope set up?

As you get better you shorten the rope - has more to do with skiing a course than anything else. A decent ski rop will be multi segment and allow you to attach it at different (standard) lengths.

On an I/O the wake gets worse closer to the boat. With an inboard ski boat the wake is actually nicer closer to the boat.

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: What is the proper ski and rope set up?

The sectioned rope is for running the slalom course as mentioned. If she is just going to be recreationally skiing, she doesn't need one, but sometimes it helps to shorten the rope for other watersports activities. Ski ropes are normally 75' long, but wakeboarding and tubing are closer to 60'. As far as a ski is concerned, she will do fine on anything as light as she is. Definitely a ski 65"-67", longer skis are "faster" in that they carry speed better, but they take more muscle to turn than the shorter skis since you have more ski in the water.

 

[tcgobucks]

Re: What is the proper ski and rope set up?

If she's getting a lot of slack in the rope, I'm guessing she's cutting out too far and then just hanging out there. Have her run an imaginary slalom course. If you watch good skiers, they don't pull all the way to the outside of their cut. Pull as hard as you can thru the wakes, then let up a little so that you can slow down just enough to make a hard cut back to the wake. This little bit of slowing down should take a lot of that slack out before she is ready to cut back. Tell her to try to make her entire run one continuous run.....instead of a hard cut to the outside then a wait until the cut back. The slack should take care of itself.

 

[skibrain]

Re: What is the proper ski and rope set up?

I?d agree that it's a technique thing, not a rope thing. Probably the new ski is more responsive and when your daughter gets some angle to the boat, the ski accelerates more quickly than whatever she was skiing on in the past. That?s good ? just need to move WHERE she is accelerating.

Not sure if she wants to hear coaching from some guys on an internet forum ? so good luck with that.

As stated above, slack in the rope is usually from pulling/loading the rope outbound past the second wake. The excessive speed followed by an abrupt turn causes slack in the rope resulting in a big hit when the rope goes tight.

Solution: Pull into the first wake, stay on edge through the wakes, but don?t pull outbound after you?re through the wakes. Don't do it.

It is really common for skiers to hang on, pulling out there to the side of the boat. It is fun to just hang out there. But for slaloming back and forth, making linked turns, that doesn?t work. Instead, use the acceleration into the wakes to generate the speed that will carry you out on the far side of the wakes. Yeah it is a bit unsettling to accelerate TOWARD the wakes. And most people (especially if the tow boat has a large wake) will stop pulling before the wakes, stand up - causing the ski to go flat on the water and then get bounced over the wakes. By keeping the angle with the ski on edge - and with knees soft - the ski can slice through those wakes with less impact.

Big turns. Think of being ONLY on the right edge of your ski when on the left side of the wakes, and ONLY on the left edge of your ski on the right side of the wakes.

Said another way, when skiing toward and through the wakes the ski should be between the boat and the skier. Once past the wakes and when turning, the skier should be between the boat and the ski. Or when viewed from the boat, you should be seeing the bottom of the ski only from the finish of the turn through the wakes. The top of the ski should be visible after the second wake through the turn.

Here is a series of shots from a video. (shot on a cold, crappy day quite a few years ago) but it shows: Beginning of a turn. Turning. Loading toward the wakes. Edge change after the wakes and beginning of next turn.

 

[Thad]

Re: What is the proper ski and rope set up?

I appreciate the advice. And I know she will also.

Reading this, I can see her doing a lot of what not to do. I will have her read this later.

She does ride over the wake and she cuts with the ski toward the boat to go out and then outside, wayyyy outside she tries to cut back. This is going to help a lot more than me or momma telling her what to do. (Kids)

Thanks for the tips.

 

[WildH2Oskier]

Re: What is the proper ski and rope set up?

I agree with most of the advice you have been given but I think that they may have overlooked a couple of things. When she is across the 2nd wake and making her turn she is probably spending too much time with the ski riding flat on the water. She has the speed she has built up from making the initial turn and wake crossing then when she rolls the ski back over to make her cut in the other direction she's riding the ski flat and actually outrunning the boat. The best way I have found to help a beginner overcome this is for them to not go very far across the wake before they make their cut back. Have her try to ski from just outside the trough to just outside the trough. Back and forth over and over, then as she gets to noticing less and less slack she can start skiing wider without worrying about slack.
As for Boot v/s Binder I ski double booted. I tried single booted but after helping a ski buddy into the boat years ago with a broken leg just above his ankle because the boot didn't release his foot and his back foot was free allowing the ski to twist and snap his leg...well I went to 2 boots, 2 tiiiiiiight boots. But she doesn't need to worry about boots just yet.
Ropes, a quality rope is more than worth the investment. Go down to your local ski shop, Academy Sports or Dicks or what ever you have nearby and let her hold and feel the handles. A good comfortable handle makes a world of difference.
And most of all take lots of pictures and video. She will learn a lot from watching herself and you will have some great memories to watch in later years.

 

[BoomerSooner]

Re: What is the proper ski and rope set up?

I think one BIG thing that you guys are missing is the speed of the boat. It makes a HUGE difference skiing tournament speeds vs recreational speeds. Yes, you guys are right, technique is a large portion of it. But if she's skiing at 23 mph, she'll get slack no matter what she does. Here's my recommendations: (from someone that skied in college)
1. Based on her weight/height she needs a 64-66" ski, although the weight is more important. That's only a recommendation. Shape of the ski makes a big difference as well. I'm 5'11", 175# and use a 65" because I like them lightning quick. But that's just me.
2. Get a nice slalom rope, say 7-8 segments. Can be bought for $25. No need to go spend $50 or more on a rope. Academy, even Wal-Mart carries good segmented ropes. Then, you can play with rope length. A 75' foot rope is going to slack more than a 60' rope. I like to ski recreationally at 60'. Again, that's just me.
3. Single boot vs. double boot. I would say it is personal preference. The guys are right and wrong on the risk of injury. In a double boot ski, if your ski does not come off, it would be extremely difficult to hurt your knee because your legs are together, pointed in the same direction. Injury only happens when you have one leg twisting like it's not supposed to. Which is more likely to happen when your back foot comes out of the toe plate. Biggest thing here is make sure her boot is snug, not tight. You should be able to pull your foot out of the boot, when wet, with minimal difficulty, about the same resistance as pulling off a pair of still-tied-up-well sneakers. I ski with a double boot. I have taken many falls, the ski comes off, the ski stays on. Never have I lost only 1 foot out of it. They either both come off or they both stay in. Like others in the post, I've had people skiing my other ski, front boot, rear toe and have slightly twisted a knee when falling and losing only the back foot. Nothing serious, but reaffirms my thoughts on a double boot. Perhaps the next ski you get her be a double boot?
4. Speed. Vary your speed the next several times she skis. Skiing at tournament speeds might scare her to death! The water is definately more forgiving at 23 mph than at 36 mph. Course, there's nothing sweeter than hooking a buoy at 36 and rocketing to the next...but I digress.

Overall, the gentlemen are right on the posts. Technique plays a major part. But there are other factors out there to consider...

Just my 2 cents, (although, that was more like 3)

 

[Utahboatnut]

Re: What is the proper ski and rope set up?

Been on a slalom for over 30 years, I have to agree with boomer's comments. Boat speed is important slow speeds make it too easy to outski the boat and slack up the line, over extending you outside cut makes for slack, also shorten the rope not lengthen for more responsive turns. I can't remember the last time I skiied on a 75 footer even just open water recreation. Don't do all of it at once though start by upping the speed 2,3,4 mph and taking 5'-6' off the rope. Then if it feels better for her and her skills increase then go a bit more off the rope and add a bit more speed. My wife is a pretty decent skiier and she likes to use my 60' rope and be pulled right around 30mph, I prefer 35-36 mph but thats me. I have skiis with both set ups and I still prefer an open rear toe plate, If Andy can/could ski with one I think I can too. Good luck to her let us know how it turns out. PS google Andy Mapple, was my idol growing up......

 

[skibrain]

Re: What is the proper ski and rope set up?

Yes it would be interesting to hear from Dad
what type of boat
what speed they have been skiing
what length of ski

 

[Thad]

Re: What is the proper ski and rope set up?

Yes it would be interesting to hear from Dad
what type of boat
what speed they have been skiing
what length of ski

Hey guys,

Been a busy week and weekend. We were just getting ready to head out Friday evening and give some of the advise a try. Then the storm came in and dumped 14" of rain. Now the rivers are flooded bad and it does not look like we will be getting out for another two weeks.

Our boat is the one in my avatar. It is a 21' Conquest deep V. It makes a pretty large wake. I have got it to reduce some with the trim.

I pull Autumn at 26 mph. I have a GPS speedo so I know the speed is accurate. At 23,24 mph she was not happy, so we upped it. But that was with her 54" xtra wide ski. Now she has an O'Brien 64" (skinny/narrow) and we have not adjusted the speed. Something I will do if we ever get out again.

She has read the responses and is chomping at the bit to get out and try some new things.

She agrees that she is out skiing the boat. She also favors the right side when skiing. She said she is not as comfortable on the left when cutting back. So she wanted me to ask if it is in her head or just something she needs to get a feel for.

Thanks again for the great advice.

Thad

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: What is the proper ski and rope set up?

I'm going to guess that since she likes the right side of the boat, she is a right-foot-forward skier, correct? If so, that normal as it is purely a comfort thing, she just needs to spend more time on the left side to get comfortable with it.

 

[korygrandy]

Re: What is the proper ski and rope set up?

I don't have a lot to add but there's something about a female slalom skiier that is just downright sexy. Watching them get an awesome workout and trying hard...it turns me on...what can I say.

 

[Thad]

Re: What is the proper ski and rope set up?

I don't have a lot to add but there's something about a female slalom skiier that is just downright sexy. Watching them get an awesome workout and trying hard...it turns me on...what can I say.

If it were not my daughter, I would agree.

 

[SeanT]

Re: What is the proper ski and rope set up?

She also favors the right side when skiing. She said she is not as comfortable on the left when cutting back. So she wanted me to ask if it is in her head or just something she needs to get a feel for.

I believe this is the case. She just needs to practice on that side. I have the same problem on my wakeboard (in two ways, the left side of the wake AND when switch stance - combine both for great wipeouts). Not so much on the kneeboard though. With wakeboarding and slalom skiing, you are somewhat "non symmetrical" in stance.