West Bend 7.5Hp help - sparkless

[skawtay]

I have a West Bend 7.5 Hp circa 1962 with no spark. The nameplate says it is a model 7202, S/N 1156 and that it was made in Barrie, Ontario. Simpsons Sears sold these in Canada; I have an old 1965 catalog showing these outboards but under the Elgin Fisherman name. This motor was stored for about 20 years. I?m restoring it for a Glen-L hydroplane I?m making for my son. Nice light engine, used to run really well.

I don?t get spark from either plug (H-8J) and tried new substitutes (RH12) no difference.
I pulled (finally) the flywheel and everything under there looks in mint condition. The engine likely has less than 150 hours. I measure the primary coil resistances at about 0.6 ohms (after subtracting the meter offset of 0.3 ohms), and I can see this drop to almost zero when the points close. The secondary on each coil is 5300 ohms from the spark plug boot to the ground. I pulled one coil off its E shaped core and it looked perfect, no cracks or discoloration.

The condensers (Wico X11397) measure 0.22uF on a capacitance meter when removed from the magneto plate. I also measured them with a high-R meter and can see them increase in resistance for a second or so until they go over range so it looks like they are OK.

The 2 pole magnet in the flywheel has lots of pull against steel, and although I can?t see the gap between the coil laminations and magnets directly, it appears to be very small.

I removed, cleaned, and reset the points to 0.020 as marked on the magneto plate although the points looked almost perfect with no peaks or fry zones.

I don?t see anything else to look at or check. The only component common to both circuits is the magnet.

BTW great application note from Fluke (electrical meter folks) ?Troubleshooting Outboard Motor Magneto Ignitions? from their site. Kudos to them.

 

[steelespike]

Re: West Bend 7.5Hp help - sparkless

Measure resistance of plug wires only.Also check the condition of the flywheel key and crank and flywheel key ways .Be sure plug wires aren't rubbed bare anywhere or wire clamps breaking down insulation.Be sure plug wires are solid core wire.Be sure the free side of the points is not shorted to ground.
Be sure all connections are clean and tight.
Don't rely too much on the meters numbers conditions can some times fool you.Check the points with the condenser out of the circuit.Be sure the stator plate is grounded and doesn't wobble.There may be a ground strap.

 

[skawtay]

Re: West Bend 7.5Hp help - sparkless

Thanks for the advice. I went through it all again with no luck. I removed the coils and on one, pulled out the spark plug wire and cut off a quarter inch to make sure I had good wire at the end where the coil pin sticks into the core. Coil impedances check out fine, spark plug wire has zero resistance. Still no spark - likely not the HV wires.
Open and close resistance across points doesn't seem to change with condensor either in the circuit or not.
There seems to be good ground between the cyclinder heads and the magneto plate.
Can you explain your request to look at the keys and keyways? Everything seems to seat OK. To the best of my knowledge this is the first time the flywheel has been off and everything under there is practically shiny, with the exception of some soot where the HV wire squeezes past the consensor. First I thought maybe it had rubbed through and was arcing so I put some insulation between them and moved the HV wire so another portion of the wire was located in that spot. No luck with either cylinder. Normally I'd buy new condensors (although they checked out on a capacitance meter and ohmmeter) but I am having trouble getting some. The 2 sites I saw in the states that had them wouldn't sell to Canada.
By the way, I check for spark with both plugs out (minimize compression) and clamped to the head. I assume this is OK to check for spark.
Almost out of ideas. It seems so simple- there isn't much in there.

 

[F_R]

Re: West Bend 7.5Hp help - sparkless

You are checking for spark across the spark plug gap? That can fool ya if the plugs are shorted. Try for spark from wire to ground.

 

[steelespike]

Re: West Bend 7.5Hp help - sparkless

Thanks for the advice. I went through it all again with no luck. I removed the coils and on one, pulled out the spark plug wire and cut off a quarter inch to make sure I had good wire at the end where the coil pin sticks into the core. Coil impedances check out fine, spark plug wire has zero resistance. Still no spark - likely not the HV wires.
Open and close resistance across points doesn't seem to change with condensor either in the circuit or not.
There seems to be good ground between the cyclinder heads and the magneto plate.
Can you explain your request to look at the keys and keyways? Everything seems to seat OK. To the best of my knowledge this is the first time the flywheel has been off and everything under there is practically shiny, with the exception of some soot where the HV wire squeezes past the consensor. First I thought maybe it had rubbed through and was arcing so I put some insulation between them and moved the HV wire so another portion of the wire was located in that spot. No luck with either cylinder. Normally I'd buy new condensors (although they checked out on a capacitance meter and ohmmeter) but I am having trouble getting some. The 2 sites I saw in the states that had them wouldn't sell to Canada.
By the way, I check for spark with both plugs out (minimize compression) and clamped to the head. I assume this is OK to check for spark.
Almost out of ideas. It seems so simple- there isn't much in there.[/QUOTE

Regarding the key and key ways if they are damaged or the key is partially sheared it will throw off the timing between the magnets, coils and points.Check the point cam if it is removeable someone may have damaged it or turned it upside down.They are usually marked top.
Sometimes over torquing the flywheel nut will damage the cam.
High point of the cam is at the flywheel key align the key with the rub block to assure high cam position.
Now if everything checks it should work.If it doesn't then something is still wrong.Have you double checked point opening and closing with the meter on the least sensitive position.Try to spin it as it would when hand cranking.
Is the ground side of the coils clean and tight.
It has been my expierence that it is difficult to read open points with the condenser in the circuit.