Weird boating laws in WI. This makes no sense

[sewerrat]

http://www.boat-ed.com/wi/wi_specific_images/pdfs/wi_handbook_entire.pdf

Look on page 6

I have 2 daughters, 1 10 year old and 1 soon-to-be 19 year old.

According to WI laws, my 10 year old can operate the boat with only my 18 year old onboard (if I designate), but my 18 year old cannot operate the boat without taking the boater safety class.

Can anyone see any logic in this?

 

[Beefer]

Re: Weird boating laws in WI. This makes no sense

The part I think is weird is that there is no requirement for the designated driver (18+) to be certified. Almost makes ya think it's a typo. Fl is similar, but more explicit:

Operators who are accompanied on board by a person who is exempt from the education requirement or by a person who is at least 18 years old, possesses the required identification cards, and is attendant to the operation of the vessel and responsible for any violation that occurs

 

[sewerrat]

Re: Weird boating laws in WI. This makes no sense

The part I think is weird is that there is no requirement for the designated driver (18+) to be certified. Almost makes ya think it's a typo. Fl is similar, but more explicit:

If you were born before 1989, no certification is necessary

But a 10 or 11 year old can operate the boat with no certification also

 

[jefro]

Re: Weird boating laws in WI. This makes no sense

Yeah, being new to WI, coming from NY, I thought it was an odd law too.
Here is my 11 year old last weekend:

 

[Beefer]

Re: Weird boating laws in WI. This makes no sense

If you were born before 1989, no certification is necessary

But a 10 or 11 year old can operate the boat with no certification also

Only with adult supervision. Sort of like when you have a learner's permit at 15, you have to have a parent or licensed driver with you. That's the part that gets me, is that the 'adult supervisor' does not have to be certified.

I think I'd make a phone call to my local DNR or the CG to clarify before I got in trouble.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Weird boating laws in WI. This makes no sense

So???... what do you expect from a state that doesn't allow motor trolling in the vast majority of it's waters???

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Weird boating laws in WI. This makes no sense

Here is the official text from the WI Statutes... The pdf isn't wrong, just very poorly worded. That entire structure applies to MINORS only, per the title of the section. Once an individual turns 18, none of those items apply. To the OP, at least according to the law, your 18 year old daughter is 100% legal, as she is not a minor and the laws in the section below do not apply...

The pdf handles this by saying it it is illegal for a parent to allow a child to operate unless these items are met. In the normal sense, parent->child, age doesn't matter. In a legal sense, child is <18 (minor), adult is 18+. They chose to use the legal definition of child, while most people would assume it implies family status.


http://www.legis.state.wi.us/statutes/Stat0030.pdf



30.678 Boating safety certificates; requirements;
exemptions; operation by minors. (1) MOTORBOATS
OTHER THAN PERSONALWATERCRAFT. (a) No person under 10 years
of age may operate a motorboat.
(b) No person who is at least 10 years of age but under 12 years
of age may operate a motorboat unless he or she is accompanied
in the motorboat by a parent or guardian or by a person who is at
least 18 years of age and who is designated by a parent or guardian.
(c) No person who is at least 12 years of age but under 16 years
of age may operate a motorboat unless one of the following
applies:
1. The person holds a valid boating safety certificate issued
under s. 30.74 (1) (a) or a valid boating safety certificate that is
honored under s. 30.74 (1) (c).
2. The person is accompanied in the motorboat by a parent or
guardian or by a person who is at least 18 years of age and who is
designated by a parent or guardian.
(d) No person who was born on or after January 1, 1989, and
who is 16 years of age or older may operate a motorboat unless the
person holds a valid safety certificate issued under s. 30.74 (1) (a)
or a valid boating safety certificate that is honored under s. 30.74

 

[smallboatlover]

Re: Weird boating laws in WI. This makes no sense

make it easy make both them get the certification for it and you won't have to worry about it. i'm 15 got my certification and now i can drive by my self.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Weird boating laws in WI. This makes no sense

Here is the official text from the WI Statutes... The pdf isn't wrong, just very poorly worded. That entire structure applies to MINORS only, per the title of the section. Once an individual turns 18, none of those items apply. To the OP, at least according to the law, your 18 year old daughter is 100% legal, as she is not a minor and the laws in the section below do not apply...

The pdf handles this by saying it it is illegal for a parent to allow a child to operate unless these items are met. In the normal sense, parent->child, age doesn't matter. In a legal sense, child is <18 (minor), adult is 18+. They chose to use the legal definition of child, while most people would assume it implies family status.


http://www.legis.state.wi.us/statutes/Stat0030.pdf



30.678 Boating safety certificates; requirements;
exemptions; operation by minors. (1) MOTORBOATS
OTHER THAN PERSONALWATERCRAFT. (a) No person under 10 years
of age may operate a motorboat.
(b) No person who is at least 10 years of age but under 12 years
of age may operate a motorboat unless he or she is accompanied
in the motorboat by a parent or guardian or by a person who is at
least 18 years of age and who is designated by a parent or guardian.
(c) No person who is at least 12 years of age but under 16 years
of age may operate a motorboat unless one of the following
applies:
1. The person holds a valid boating safety certificate issued
under s. 30.74 (1) (a) or a valid boating safety certificate that is
honored under s. 30.74 (1) (c).
2. The person is accompanied in the motorboat by a parent or
guardian or by a person who is at least 18 years of age and who is
designated by a parent or guardian.
(d) No person who was born on or after January 1, 1989, and
who is 16 years of age or older may operate a motorboat unless the
person holds a valid safety certificate issued under s. 30.74 (1) (a)
or a valid boating safety certificate that is honored under s. 30.74

No, the 18 year old was born after 1-1-89, so she is required to take the safety course to operate the boat.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Weird boating laws in WI. This makes no sense

I just sent off an email to the DNR, asking for clarification.

I'll let you know if they get back to me. Or if they take my boat away.

Here is what I sent:



A friend and fellow boater recently moved to Wisconsin. Having just registered his boat, we were discussing the boater education requirements, and how they apply to his family.

On page seven (7) of the boating regulations, it states:

1) "A person 10 or 11 years old may operate a motorboat only if accompanied by a parent, a guardian, or a person at least 18 years old who is designated by the parent or guardian"

While it is unlikely that any parent born after 1-1-89, would have a 10 year old child, it is entirely possible that a 21 year old could be the guardian of a 10 year old sibling.

And according to this, any designated person at least 18, or guardian, can accompany a 10 or 11 year old operator. No where does it state that the designated person or guardian is required to have taken an approved boater safety course.

It only makes sense to require this, and I'm certain that is what is intended, it just doesn't say it.
It says a parent can designate any 18 year old to accompany a 10 year old operator.


2) It goes on to say that a 12-15 year old can operate a boat when accompanied by a parent/guardian/designated person. Again, no mention of the person being required to pass a safety course.

3) It then goes on to state "A person born on or after 01/01/89 and over 16 years old may operate a motorboat only if he or she has completed a boating safety course that is accepted by the Wisconsin DNR"

As we interpret this, a parent can accompany his 10-15 year old as they operate a motorboat. But can not allow his 16 or 17 year old to operate the boat unless the child has passed a safety course.

It seems rather odd that I could let my 10 year old operate a boat, but cannot let my 17 year old operate a boat under my supervision.

Could you please shed some light on these issues, and perhaps clarify the requirements in future editions of the regulations.
It seems inevitable that someone will eventually argue these points in court, to avoid a fine.

Thank you.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Weird boating laws in WI. This makes no sense

Laws look this way because they are not written as a whole.... they are grown of bits and pieces....

I will say this...... even if it is not actually written, Any rational person should and most any judge/leo would assume that in order to supervise the minor while operating the boat, the adult would need to be legally qualified to also operate the boat.... I suspect that if you were to turn these two gals loose without the eldest having said certificate that they and you would be in violation and subject to a ticket..... It's not so much a weird law as a poorly written /mistaken law

 

[oldjeep]

Re: Weird boating laws in WI. This makes no sense

I always wonder how those types of laws apply to out of state boaters. In MN the only watercraft operators permit is for 12-17 year olds, and its an online test that a monkey could pass for $20.
We frequently bring our boat to my parents summer place in WI, I let the kids drive when I'm in the boat - MN law says if they don't have a watercraft permit then someone 21+ has to be within reach of the controls.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Weird boating laws in WI. This makes no sense

No, the 18 year old was born after 1-1-89, so she is required to take the safety course to operate the boat.

nope... you missed the part I highlighted, as well as the entire intent of my post. That ENTIRE section applies to MINORS only. Once the person in question is no longer a minor, it does not apply. In other words, as soon as you read that, quit reading and go to the next section. The 18 year old is an adult, not a minor.

(I deal with reading state laws at my day job on a daily basis... In legal terms, this one is actually fairly straight-forward and clear-cut.)

 

[oldjeep]

Re: Weird boating laws in WI. This makes no sense

nope... you missed the part I highlighted, as well as the entire intent of my post. That ENTIRE section applies to MINORS only. Once the person in question is no longer a minor, it does not apply. In other words, as soon as you read that, quit reading and go to the next section. The 18 year old is an adult, not a minor.

(I deal with reading state laws at my day job on a daily basis... In legal terms, this one is actually fairly straight-forward and clear-cut.)

That's not actually what it means. In WI you are required to have taken the safety course if you were born after 1-1-1989. Semi colons in a legal description are separating multiple subjects within the section.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Weird boating laws in WI. This makes no sense

I'm with oldjeep on this.

30.678 Boating safety certificates; requirements;
exemptions; operation by minors.

These are 4 separate issues, dealt with in the following text.

The section is not titled Operation by minors.

 

[bekosh]

Re: Weird boating laws in WI. This makes no sense

Here is the way I read it:
Age 10-15 can operate the boat with an adult on board.
Age 12-15 can operate the boat alone if they have taken the boater safety course.
Age 16 and up and born after 1-1-89 can operate the boat only if they have taken the boater safety course.
If you were born before 1-1-89 you do not need to take the boater safety course to be legal.

It does look like there is a gap in there where a 16-22 year old can't operate the boat under any circumstances without taking the safety course.

I think that the problem is that the law was written before 2005. Prior to that point, no one over 16 was required to take the safety course. So there wasn't that gap for 16-18 year olds and anyone over 18 was grandfathered in for certification.

The rules should probably be clarified so that if the "parent or guardian or by a person who is at least 18 years of age and who is designated by a parent or guardian" was born after 1-1-89 that they have to have taken the safety course in order to supervise.

And it should also allow anyone 16 and older to operate with a certified adult supervising.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Weird boating laws in WI. This makes no sense

The rules should probably be clarified so that if the "parent or guardian or by a person who is at least 18 years of age and who is designated by a parent or guardian" was born after 1-1-89 that they have to have taken the safety course in order to supervise.

And it should also allow anyone 16 and older to operate with a certified adult supervising.

Exactly.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Weird boating laws in WI. This makes no sense

Well sewerrat and jefro, you are correct. It appears the law is messed up as written.

But, here is the email I just received from the DNR, explaining it, as best they can.

roscxx , "you e-mail was forwarded to me for a reply.

Your interpretation of the boating regulations is correct. Even though it may seem odd that any person age 16 and older who was born after 1-1-89 may not operate a motorboat without holding a boating safety certification, while a person age 10-15 can do so provided they are accompanied by a parent or guardian 18 or older, this is the law found in Wisconsin State Statute and is what the State Legislature intended.

Today, any person person age 16 to 22 must have successfully completed a boating education course before they may operate a motorboat. In 10 years it will be anyone age 16 to 32, and eventually no one over age 16 will be able to operate a motorboat without first completing a boating education course. Except that under current state law, anyone age 10-15 will be allowed to operate a motorboat without first taking boater education, provided their parent or an 18 year old authorized by the parent or guardian can operate a motorboat. I believe this provision was made to allow youth under age 16 the opportunity to gain experience operating a boat before they turned 16 and the mandatory education requirement kicks in.

I agree that it does seem strange that the adult accompanying a youth under age 16 is not required to have completed boating education, and I am not sure if this was intentional on the part of the legislature or not. But it would require a statutory change by the legislature to require any adult who is accompanying a youth to also have completed boating education. It would seem to make sense to do so.

Thomas Van Haren
Conservation Warden & NR Policy Officer
Bureau of Law Enforcement
Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources "