water in oil bf130 update

[jdman]

I drained the oil today and found there was some water in it. When I pulled the plug about a teaspoon of straight water came out, and the oil was a grayish color. Ran a compression check: 180, 180, 170, and 180. I usually keep the boat under a shed, but I left it outside for several months during the summer. Is there any way rain water or moisture could get in the crankcase with the motor tilted up? I went ahead and changed the oil and will run it some and see what happens. I hope it is not the head gasket due to water pump failure. Thanks for any input. Jdman

 

[Silvertip]

Re: water in oil bf130 update

Chances are this is still condensation, especially if the boat was left outside. Warm days, cool nights, and humidity at water level creates lots of moisture. Probably the worst scenario is to run the engine close to dusk and then park it for the night. As the engine cools it seems like they become a magnet for condensation. My suggestion for 4-stroke owners that have this problem is to make an engine cover from heavy vinyl (not plastic tarp material) with a thick insulating member inside it. Install the cover when parked, especially at night. The cover should help. I make my own boat covers and always construct the engine cover as part of the main cover. When parked for the night, the boat is always covered and in the morning regardless how much rain, fog, or condensation we had, my engine is always bone dry.

 

[mjbrueck]

Re: water in oil bf130 update

That's a lot of water for condensation. Even under super humid conditions there isn't much vapor in air. At 80 degrees F and 100% RH (about as extreme as you can come across anywhere in the US) there's only about a gram (there are 5 grams to a teaspoon) of water per cubic foot of air. If your engine is at 70 degrees, only about 1/4 of the water will condense. So unless you are passing a lot of air through the inside of your engine, I'd look at other possibilities for your water.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: water in oil bf130 update

Can't argue humidity with a weather guy. But I'll try. Come to Minnesota on a 30 below zero day (not much humidity then is there). Start your car and drive less than a mile. Pull the oil filler cap and check the under side. You will find a bunch of moisture -- probably even icy. Seriously, there are lots of posts on this and other forums dealing with 4-stroke water in the oil problems that techs can't figure out. Outboards, like their auto cousins, need to positively vent the crankcase or blowby gases would pop seals. The other option is to have a crankcase open to the atmosphere. Either way, a good deal of air passes through it. Its just my opinion, but I find it hard to believe all of these engines have mechanical problems. This is happening right out of the box. These engines need to be run longer distances and at higher speeds to get them warm enough to purge the moisture. Continued problems need to be handled with more frequent oil changes.

 

[mjbrueck]

Re: water in oil bf130 update

I was just answering his question as to whether the water was due to the motor being stored outside. There are lots of ways for water to get into the oil, but condensation due to a motor sitting outside isn't likely.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: water in oil bf130 update

Condensation is certainly a problem with a partially filled fuel tank sitting through weather and temperature swings. Why would a crankcase be immune?

 

[mjbrueck]

Re: water in oil bf130 update

There is a big difference in the volume of a mostly empty 50 gallon tank and a 2.0 liter engine's crankcase. There are literally billions of 4-cycle engines in use and I'm not aware of any problems with condensation in the crankcase due to lack of use. If that were the case, everyone would have to buy a new lawnmower each April.<br /><br />I agree 100% that lots of short trips can build up water. Water is a by-product of combustion, and if the engine doesn't warm up enough to convert it all to vapor, it's not going anywhere. As you said, pull the fill cap (an area that will be slow to heat up) and it's condensing the water vapor.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: water in oil bf130 update

Great debate! One more shot at this and I'll hang it up. How about we start a thread dealing with topic. Most small engines you refer to are stored indoors. If they are left outside in the desert southwest, condensation is probably not a huge concern. Leave that mower outside for an extended length of time in Minnesota with 90 degree days and 55 degree nights and I assure you there will be water in the oil. The only difference between a 50 gallon fuel tank a 2 liter crankcase is roughly 49 gallons. If one factored for tank size would you say its possible to realize 50 or 60 teaspoons of condensate in a 50 gallon tank? Obviously boat type and location of your tank on that vessel and weather has a bearing on this. I agree that moisture is a byproduct of combustion however that condensation goes out the exhaust. If moisture from combustion is getting into the crankcase in quantities significant to there are other problems. <br />JDMAN - let us know periodically whether or not moisture is still an issue with your engine. If you are worried about rain or wave splash getting to your engine, you might try putting an cover on it when stored.

 

[mjbrueck]

Re: water in oil bf130 update

Whether the boat is in a garage, shed, etc, the humidity will be roughly the same. Water has a way of equalizing. Water vapor pressure always wants to equalize. So while leaving a motor exposed to the elements will do damage to the outside a little quicker, the inside will see pretty much the same conditions whether it's in the driveway or in the garage.<br /><br />Upinsmoke, if it turns out to be due to leaving the engine out in the elements, and you're ever in Florida I'll buy you a beer and take you out for some Snook fishing. If it's not due to condensation, when I'm up in your neck of the woods, you can buy me a beer and take me out for some Walleye.<br /><br />Sorry JDMan for derailing, but a simple test would be:<br /><br />-change oil<br />-run the engine until fully warmed up (either on the hose for an hour or at the lake/bay for a day)<br />-drain the oil (as much water as you found, you should be able to see if you have water intrusion right after shutting down - milky threads in the oil, or "coffee with milk" colored oil).

 

[hondon]

Re: water in oil bf130 update

Here is what I see everyday.A teaspoon full of water after 6 months is miniscule.Condensation certainly plays a part in that collection of water,as do'es the climate we are operating this machine in.Remember as we are cruising along this unit is not only consuming fuel but also air.That air can be pretty moisture laden in this enviornment[go figure]and often boating habits for whatever reason lead to frequent starts ,stops ,shut offs,restarts,etc.In other words the engine never really reaches it's true operating temp at which point most of that collected water will be evaporated.A teaspoon?No sweat.A cup? Time to talk.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: water in oil bf130 update

There ya go jdman. Looks like its no sweat collecting a teaspoon of water now & then.

 

[jdman]

Re: water in oil bf130 update

Here is some more info guys. I live in upstate SC, we have pretty high humidity in the warmer months. I have owned this boat/motor for almost three years. I have always kept it under a shed when not in use, until this period of outside storage last summer. I have never found any moisture in the oil until now. Since the long period of storage, my fishing habits have leaned more towards short runs, alot of stop and go, and also a good bit of trolling at idle. I have changed the oil and filter but have not had a chance to run it yet. I will keep you guys posted when I find out more. Thanks Jdman

 

[BF130]

Re: water in oil bf130 update

jdman - check with your dealer. Some model years had issues with cracked heads. If this is your problem, then that would be where water could get mixed with the oil.

 

[jdman]

Re: water in oil bf130 update

well, I have been running this thing some and the problem seems to be getting worse instead of better. I am fairly sure it is not condensation, but water getting in somewhere. Other than head gasket, where else could it be coming from? Jdman

 

[hondon]

Re: water in oil bf130 update

Time to talk .You will first need to determine if this engine is coming up to adequate operating temp.These engines need a little extra warmth and thermostat problems are not unheard of.Not coming up to temp will give you these sypmtoms.How much water intrusion are we talking about here?

 

[Silvertip]

Re: water in oil bf130 update

JD - had this engine ever been overheated? If so, a headgasket or cracked head could be the cause of water intrusion. It wouldn't necessarily require overheating to cause the problem but those are typical ways for water to get into an engine. You might run the engine for at least 10 - 15 minutes at mid range RPM, head back to the dock and rather than let the engine idle pulling to the dock, just kick in neutral and immediatly turn it off. Pull the spark plugs and check each one carefully. Water in the combustion chamber has a cleaning effect so cylinders with water intrusion will have spark plugs that are paper white while other may be the normal tan color. Pressure testing the cooling system is the only way to positively identify a cracked head or block. A compression test will show a bad head gasket. To pressure test the cooling system, all water passages that have external ports (water pump and telltale) would need to be plugged and the cooling system pressurized to about 20#. You would hear air leakage if there was an internal leak. Unfortunately, engine tear down and inspection is the only way to visually locate the crack. Since there appears to be service bulletins regarding cracked heads, this is beginning to look like a very unwelcomed problem. Replacing a head gasket is not the end of the world althought its far more expensive on a four stroke than on a two stroke. Please keep us posted.

 

[jdman]

Re: water in oil bf130 update

Thanks for the replies. I will replace the thermostat and see if that helps. It is not a major amount of water. Just enough to make the oil look a little off colored. There is also some collecting in the oil filler cap and the neck it screws into. Also some milky residue in the dipstick tube. The engine was run hot about two years ago when the water pump went out, but it has run fine since. It idles a little rough sometimes, but smooths out when the engine is speeded up. I have checked the compression and read three at 180 lbs. and one at 170 lbs. I will try your suggestions and keep you guys posted on it. Thanks again Jdman

 

[JB]

Re: water in oil bf130 update

Just moved WillyBWright's FAQ on 4 strokes making oil to the FAQs, JDman. Check it out.

 

[jdman]

Re: water in oil bf130 update

Thanks JB, that sheds alot of light on my situation. I have noticed that the oil has a faint odor of gasoline to it. I will keep working at it till I figure it out. Thanks again, Jdman