water fountin in the boat

[baddog00100]

hay guys need a little help with something i was out on my (break out another thousand) boat fishing one fine day. my boat was running like a champ all day. was at my last fishing hole and was getting ready to go in when the darn thing wouldn't start. when it did turn over a couple of good times water shot straight up through the carb. i did the back strok home with my b.o.a.t. in toe. tore down the engine thinking i had cracked a head or blew a gasket. all was looking as good as the day i put it togeather. so after some thought and a little cursing i figured it was a cracked water manofold. i replaced with new ones and took it down the lake and backed it in hit the key and it cranked over about 2 or 3 times and wooosh water right the carb again. i have a 75 slickcraft with a (fix or repair daily) ford 302 OMC. if anybody out there has had this happen or know of this problem i would greatly thank you for your help in the matter.

 

[TwoBallScrewBall]

Re: water fountin in the boat

A few possibilities. Don't know what you mean by water manifold...<br /><br />1. Blown head gasket is allowing water into the cylinders.<br /><br />2. Cracked exhaust manifold allowing water into the cylinders.<br /><br />3. Cracked or leaking intake manifold letting water into the intake track / cylinders.<br /><br />4. Cracked cylinder wall letting water into the cylinders. <br /><br />Remove the spark plugs one side at a time and look for signs of water. This will tell you if the problem is on one side, the other, or both. If both, suspect the intake. If one, suspect any of the other scenarios. <br /><br />I'd then conntinue by removing the exhaust manifolds and intake maniold and looking for signs of water, maybe get them pressure tested. <br /><br />Good luck.

 

[baddog00100]

Re: water fountin in the boat

thanks for the post the water manifolds are brand new i installed today. i had the heads off a couple fo weeks ago and checked those all looked good. new gaskets and all. as i said i turned the motor over about three times and when i pulled the plugs water was in all 8 cylinders.the intake looked fine to but i just did a once over i guess i'll have to pull it again and check it real good. it seems to be a good idea as did everything else that i did but didn't fix the problem.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: water fountin in the boat

Unless you had the cylinder heads pressure tested I would still highly suspect them. Do you have an OEM intake manifold? If aluminum, you could have a problem there.

 

[DJ]

Re: water fountin in the boat

I vote for intake.<br /><br />Since you had it off, that's the first place to look. <br /><br />Don't know if you had the heads reworked. If so, make sure you got the right ones back.. I just went throught that with a friend. The machine shop switched some high $$$ for some junk ones.<br /><br />Also, you can easily reverse the head gaskets on a 302. Make sure the water passeges line up.

 

[CTD]

Re: water fountin in the boat

The only way I can see to get water comming out of the carb is for the water pump to fill the engine and manifold. It would take a really big hole in the manifold to do that. Besides which the engine would fill up and no longer turn over so the water pump couldn't work. Got me stumped.

 

[tommays]

Re: water fountin in the boat

this is a merc link but it gives all the thinks to check for water in the motor its very inportant to remove the plugs turn over the motor to get out the water and pump in some oil to each cylinder and turn over the motor to coat the parts to help save the motor from rust damage<br /><br /> http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Bullet/01/01_13.pdf <br /><br />it gives a good step by step for your problem<br /><br />tommays

 

[baddog00100]

Re: water fountin in the boat

hay guys thanks for the tips i pulled the intake and all was well. reinstalled and found that the more i tightened the bolts others got loose so i kept tightened until they were good and tight. hooked water source up and let it run no water comming out anywhere but outdrive. thought i had solved the problem. i took it down and backed it in the water, hit the key and fountian coiy again. i have checked every possible part of the cooling system and exaust. i,m at wits end with this thing anybody nned a good fishing structure.

 

[CTD]

Re: water fountin in the boat

This problem has me curious. I have some questions, does the water pour out of the carb where the air normally goes in while the engine is cranking over? Is the oil pan full of oil? does the engine lock up once it fills with water? How long cranking before water starts comming out of the carb? Do you have the spark arrestor on when your cranking. When you put the boat in the water last did it start running at all? I assume the boat was on the trailer with the bow up, could the water back up through the exhaust because the stern was down too much?

 

[calwldlif]

Re: water fountin in the boat

Water coming out the carb?<br />Unless the intake valves are open when they shouldn't be, I can't see anything coming out.<br />Backfire when tinming is off allows fire fuel to be back shot, but water? It runs normally with <br />hose hookup? Intake does just that, sucks, even if there is an intake manifold leak, it still sucks. Yes proper torquing of intake mani requires a few trips around the pattern.<br />have you checked the cam crank timing chain for<br />proper align. Nylon gears have jumped teeth.<br />Have you checked the water line of boat, is it sitting lower in water? Are the risers still above the water line? I just can't see the problem you are having, unless the water is so high on the boat that it easily flows into heads and then queezed through intake valves juat before it smothers.

 

[baddog00100]

Re: water fountin in the boat

this problem has me more than courious. yes the boat is on the trailer. the risers come above the engine and the engine is above the water line. it will crank about three times and the water blowes about two feet in the air out of the carb. the oil level is fine and there is no water in the oil.no the boat doesn't have a chance to run as soon as it cranks the water starts blowing. the timing is alligned or at least it was i have steel gear not nylon. i am seriosly consedering tearing it down again and starting over.

 

[tommays]

Re: water fountin in the boat

i have to think that if the boat ran good at home and you went to the ramp that the water from your home test had to have leaked into the pistons during you trip to the ramp turning over the boat on the trailer cant have pumped in enough water to have caused it that quick<br /><br />reading how your tighting your bolts doesent sound like your following the correct order or useing a torque wrench<br /><br />i dont think the gaskets can work right if you just have at the bolts until they dont move any more<br /><br />tommays

 

[Elk Chaser]

Re: water fountin in the boat

You really need to test this with the plugs removed until you find the culprit. But then again in my humble opinion it is too late for that.<br /><br />My guess would be that one way or another a gasket is not installed correctly (backwards or upsidedown or something). Also possibly could be warped head(s), damaged mating surfaces on the heads or intake manifold.<br /><br />If the gaskets were installed correctly and the surfaces were all good and then the gasket was not seated (sealed) properly I would also suspect that one way or another you would have water in the oil because if the water can get as far as the piston intake or exhaust from a improperly sealed gasket then it can easily also get into the oil passages as well. <br /><br />Have you checked to be sure all springs, valves etc. are good, no breaks or bends anywhere.<br /><br />If the intake gasket and head gaskets were seated then the intake valves would need to be open on the compression stroke to get water up out of the carb. Simple.<br /><br />I'd be surprised if no damage occurred to the engine. The engine would have hydro locked the very first time it saw water and bent or broke something with that much water in the cylinder on the compression stroke no matter how it got in there in the first place.<br /><br />Remember that water cannot be compressed at all and when that piston comes up on the compression stroke with both valves closed something has got to break or bend. It must happen because that water has no where else to go. For the water to come up out of the carb you must have broken intake springs or valves on top of the water problem.<br /><br />Tear down the top end, take the heads to a shop and have them checked out and pressure tested. Inspect the intake manifold and pressure test it. Open up the oil pan and inspect the lower end for damage. Reinstall with new gaskets being extra anal about the position and aligment and torque specs.<br /><br />Good luck, I hate hearing about these kinds of problems and it sucks no matter who has them. <br /><br />I hope I never see this.

 

[pine island fred]

Re: water fountin in the boat

i am winging it on this one. didnt some v-8 use water around the carb base as heat riser instead of exhaust gas ? expeieenced on flat head fords and chevy stove bolt 6,s but i sure seem to remember a water hose plugged into the intake manifold close to the carb base on some engines. hope i am not throwing you off on this one regards fred.

 

[CTD]

Re: water fountin in the boat

For water to come out of the carb without filling the engine and hydrolocking it the water would have to come in above the throttle valves. Unless you have a situation like fred describes, do you have any hoses that carry water going to anything at the carb like a pre heater? I wouldn't tear the engine down until you get a better idea of what you are looking for. Cranking the engine with the plugs out might give you more information especially if water only comes out of one cylinder or squirts out of the carb without comming out of any cylinder.

 

[baddog00100]

Re: water fountin in the boat

TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION I DON'T HAVE A PRE HEATER. ALSO IT DOES START TO HYDROLOCK AS IT PUMPING THE WATER OUT THROUGH THE CARB. AT THAT POINT I JUST TURN THE KEY OFF AND START CURSING. I THEN PULL THE PLUGS OUT AND PUMP THE WATER OUT THEN ITS BACK TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON. I DO KNOW THAT THE WATER HAS TO BE GETTING PUSHED OUT THROUGH THE INTAKE VALVES IN ORDER TO GET TO THE CARB BUT WHAT I DON'T KNOW OR CAN'T FIGURE IS HOW THE WATER IS GETTING SUCKED IN THROUGH THE EXAUST VALVES.WITH THE MOTOR ABOVE THE WATER LINE AND NEW EXAUST MANIFOLDS IT JUST DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE. THANKS FOR ALL OF YOUR HELP GUYS.

 

[calwldlif]

Re: water fountin in the boat

Could water be forced up the outdrive<br />when you launch? <br />I wish I could be more help.<br />Do you pull plugs and clear cyl's<br />while the boats in the water?<br />Then it happens again and again, while on the water? But not on the hose at home.<br />If so what is the difference from the hose<br />and the water? I would guess pressure?<br />Can you post pictures? maybe fresh eyes might<br />spot something.

 

[pine island fred]

Re: water fountin in the boat

ok i would try this. adapt a hose to the outlet hose of the water pump. now you dont have to crank the engine to circulate the water. then start looking. do this with the hose half turned on so you dont get to much pressure. i am real curious as to what happens. keep us up to date. regards fred

 

[CTD]

Re: water fountin in the boat

A few more thoughts. I have seen engines where the timing chain housing rusted through and the water pump would fill the crancase with water. Don't know if the 302 is set up like that though. You seem to have a really large amount of water comming in real fast so I think you can eliminate the possibility any little cracks or gasket leaks. Is the thermostat housing in the intake manifold, if so did you remove it and the thermostat and check for leaks from that area into the manifold?

 

[baddog00100]

Re: water fountin in the boat

hay its me again. yes i have connected a hose to the water pump with the spark pulgs out just to see if the heads were leaking. i had the water on slow at first, the block filled and the manifold then the water was emptying out of the outdrive. i looked for leakes all around and also waited to see if any would come out of the spark plug holes, none ever did. i then turned the water on all the way and still nothing was leaking anywhere and none in the cylinders. i then decided to block off the exaust manifolds at the risers so it would build up pressure and still no leakes and no water in the pistions. for some reason it is only when i try to start it is when it sucks the water in. i was thinking at the time but i should have turned it over while i was doing this to see if it would have done the same thing but i didn't. but i am going to try it tomarrow and see what happens. the internal workings of an enging is fairly simple and there is no logical reason for it to be sucking instead of blowing. after all an engine only sucks if it won't run.