VP DPX 7.4 no power

deckswabber

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Jun 30, 2004
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We (my family) have a 1994 Cruisers 32' with dual VP 7.4 (454) IOs (dual opposing props). <br />We recently took it to a local shop to have the IOs serviced (it had been sitting for awhile). <br />Prior to being serviced,it ran reasonably well (got on plane, did ~30 knots at somewhere around 3000 rpm, hadn't really pushed it beyond that in awhile)<br />We picked it up today, and when we throttled up, we could hear the motors rev up nicely, but it didn't develop enough thrust to get on plane. <br />It also seems to have a slight shake at higher RPMs. Needless to say, we throttled down and immediately went back to the marina. The owner of the shop swears the work is good, and the we "need someone to show us how to use our boat" - they are sending the mechanic over to test drive it with us next week (we're politely going along with this to let the mechanic see for himself - the boat has been in the family for 10 years and we know how to operate it...). <br />Needless to say, we think the marine shop is wrong... We think that:<br />1) One or more of the props may not be attached is someway so as to defeat the anti-cavitation<br />2) Part of of one or both drivelines is loose and power is not getting to the screws.<br />3) A prop is bent/ out of balance.<br /><br />Anybody have any other ideas as to what's going on here? <br /><br />On another note, can anyone recommend a good marine shop in Solano County California (Western Sacramento Delta ) that has facilities and capable staff for a boat this size and configuration (6 tons, planing hull.. sorta big and heavy ;) )<br />Thanks!
 

waterone1@aol.com

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1,235
Re: VP DPX 7.4 no power

It would help, if you could summerize or post what was on the work order or service bill. For instance, if they replaced prop shaft seals, that would indicate that they had the props off....could be a problem there. Did they do any work to the trim tilt cylinders ? By the way, did you start out with the trim/tilt all the way down by holding the switches down, or did you look at the gauges and assume that because they said the drives were down that they actually were ? In my opinion, unless you were having some kind of problem before taking it in for service, I doubt it is anything like a bent prop or a serious driveline problem (you didn't say anything about gears grinding or engines revving out of control). Another question, were both tachs showing similar rpms for even throttle ? Please keep us posted what happends when the tech goes out with you next week. Please remember everyone makes mistakes some times, and the important thing is to get the problem resolved quickly. If the shop is sending a tech to your marina to go out with you, that is a step in the right direction.
 

deckswabber

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Jun 30, 2004
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Re: VP DPX 7.4 no power

We're really trying to be patient as we realize that this is a complicated machine, but this is actually the 2nd go around... they launched it last week, put it in our slip and then told us not to drive it because it "needed adjustment" because it was shifting hard, so we're a bit concerned ;) . <br /><br />This work was done after we asked them to get the IOs into what they considered good working order - this repair actually started as a missing shift cover that they didn't replace last time they worked on it.<br />first, answers to waterone1's ?s:<br />1)did they do any work to the trim tilt cylinders ?<br />-Don't think so<br />2) by the way, did you start out with the trim/tilt all the way down by holding the switches down, or did you look at the gauges and assume that because they said the drives were down that they actually were? <br />-We trimmed them up/down at the dock to make sure they were working, and could at least hear the hydraulics moving. Once on the channel, we trimmed down which is our usual "flat" cruising trim. Before they launched it, i actually saw the motor hydraulics tested on the trailer. it has also been out experience that, at least before this work, that it will *always* get on plane irregarless or trim, just not optimally if trimmed incorrectly.<br />3) Another question, were both tachs showing similar rpms for even throttle ? <br />- unfortunately, starboard tach is in inop, but we did listen closely, and they sounded about the same.<br />4)you didn't say anything about gears grinding or engines revving out of control<br />- no grinding gears, although the starboard shifter is noticeably easier to shift (port is not hard, but definitely stiffer). The motor(s) did not rev out of control per-se : as soon as we noticed that they were spinning up and nothing was happening (around 3000 rpm) we immediately backed off the throttles and both motors responded correctly.<br /><br />Here are the mechanic's pre -work notes<br />---------------------------------------<br />Port drive oil contaminated w/water<br />Stbd. drive old full and clean<br />all zincs worn severely<br />both drive lifts functioning smoothly<br />port tach inop<br />both trim gauges inop<br />both drive covers missing. all shift linkage needs cleaning<br />soaked drives w/acid and h/press washed thoroughly<br />pressure tested port drive - found leak @shift activator seal. need seal, ret and o-ring + both blowers (snip... stuff about inop blower in here)<br />stbd bellows (u joint) full of barnacles and port bellows .. and weather cracked -<br /><br />Here are his repair notes<br />-------------------------<br />re-sealed port shift activator<br />for both drive shaft bellows, replaced all neccesary o-ring. checked upper seal - no leaks (both drives). some corrosion problem upon removal of port upper gear unit and upper bearing slighly burnt due to contaminated oil. filled both drives w/ Mobil 2 syn. 75w. both drives passed pressure testing after repairs.<br />replaced all zinc's & added zinc's to trim tabs.<br />had difficulty removing props due to corrosion.<br />Thoroughly cleaned prop shaft & hub splines<br />cleaned both drive shaft linkages<br />re-set both drive shift linkage and secure new covers<br />(snip.. rest is about batteries...)<br />--------------------------------------<br /><br />They also mentioned on the phone that they had to really beat on the props (with a mallet) to get them off.<br /><br />FWIW, this shop is actually one of the dealers on the list that Rabidfish posted (there are 273 dealers on the list, so hopefully this is vague enough to not finger them just yet). I was more looking for an actual personal reference based on experience.<br /><br />Thanks again for your interest, hope this post isn't too long. I will definitely keep you posted, and any input is greatly appreciated!
 

Don S

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Re: VP DPX 7.4 no power

Are both engine/drives acting the same??<br />I've had to beat on props with a mallet the same way on many DP's, and never had a problem with the hubs, so I doubt that would cause your problem.<br />I could see the drive with water in the lube slipping when there was water in it, but unless the cone clutch is worn, it should be fine after changing the lube.<br />Adjustments could be out on the shift cables, not allowing full movement into forward, that would cause the problem.<br />A stiff cable on the one drive may not be allowing it to go all the way into gear and slipping, but that doesn't cause the problem in the other.
 

bluewater19

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Apr 25, 2003
Messages
505
Re: VP DPX 7.4 no power

It wasn't Adams marine was it???<br />I have a few boating friends in the fairfield area that have had big time problems with them.<br />One guy even went as far as to post a letter from the owner of adams at the vallejo marina on all of the pilings at the ramp. I saw it with my own eyes. The letter basicly said If you don't like the service you got go ahead and sue me!
 

deckswabber

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Jun 30, 2004
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Re: VP DPX 7.4 no power

yup.. it's adams, and we haven't escalated as far as your friend yet, but they certainly have exhibited a similar attitude towards us. i guess being the only game in town has left them feeling invincible?
 

rodbolt

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Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: VP DPX 7.4 no power

overfilled drives will allow slippage as will incorrect shift shoe shimming.if i had a twenty for every prop i beat off or cut off a volvo i would retire.never had an issue with it. if i hammer it off i have damaged it so it goes out for rework and testing.
 

deckswabber

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Re: VP DPX 7.4 no power

sorry, rodbolt... i'm a bit ignorant ;) <br /><br />Overfilled, meaning, overfilled with oil?
 

bigbrownbuku

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Sep 17, 2004
Messages
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Re: VP DPX 7.4 no power

yes overfilled with oil. to help limit drive corrosion have your props painted. works wonders with bravos too.
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
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Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: VP DPX 7.4 no power

if the cones cant sling the oil out or the shift shoe wont allow a full cone drop the cone may slip on the gear wheel. usually it will cause delayed shift engagement if over filled but it can cause cone slippage.so can worn out shift cone bushings
 

deckswabber

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Re: VP DPX 7.4 no power

bluewater19,<br /> Any way I could hook up with your friends in Fairfield? I'd love to hear if/how they resolved it if it's not too much on an imposition or too forward of me.<br />Thanks!
 

deckswabber

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Re: VP DPX 7.4 no power

Update...<br /><br />After a very rude call with the owner, who insisted it was not her fault and that she would charge us if it was something we did...<br /><br />We had our "driving lesson" with the mechanics this morning, and,no surprise, they couldn't get it to plane either. The suspect either the shift shoe or cone clutch. They are pulling it back out today. 3rd times a charm?<br /><br />Turns out they didn't bother testing it after they did the work in the first place.<br /><br />Is this normal for marine service shops? The original work order was dated Jan 24th, so this is going on 3 months for something that still doesn't work right.
 

rodbolt

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Re: VP DPX 7.4 no power

with some shops it is. I water test all my work so I know if there is a problem or not before the customer is notified for pickup.sometimes we find problems on the water test that the customer wasnt aware of.if its a boat not normally serviced by me I try to water test them before and after service. that way I can spot problems and correct them then test to insure the problem is resolved. costs a bit more but it works when the customer picks it up. and yes we get the occasional customer that brings it in broke for routine maint then swears it was working fine before the service. so if its not a regular customer I document everything and try to do two water tests.
 

deckswabber

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Jun 30, 2004
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Re: VP DPX 7.4 no power

Please excuse my newbieness again...<br /><br />Just got a call from the shop. They have informed us it is a spun prop. Anyone care to elaborate on what this is (I searched the forums and couldn't find much). It worked fine before we took it in for service :)
 

vipzach

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Re: VP DPX 7.4 no power

From what I understand there is a device made of rubber in there that is supposed to protect your outdrive if you hit something with the prop. If it was spun your prop would spin (usually) but under a load would basically slip.
 

deckswabber

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Re: VP DPX 7.4 no power

I think it's the splines on either the prop or the driveshaft... the notes from the mechanic mention that he used to slide hammer to remove the props.
 

vipzach

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Re: VP DPX 7.4 no power

If you a slide hammer that just means that someone did not grease the splines last time they were off.
 

tommays

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Jul 4, 2004
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Re: VP DPX 7.4 no power

there is rubber hub in the prop it dampens vibration and serves as a modern day shear pin to protect the driveline<br /><br />it is one of those things that does just happen sometimes if its to strong it wont fail when it really needs to<br /><br />tommays
 

deckswabber

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Re: VP DPX 7.4 no power

Let me rephrase the question...<br /><br />Assuming that we didn't hit anything (which we didn't), what other options are there for how this prop was spun? The boat did sit for about 4 years unoperated (but not inoperable, we started it no problem after it sat, and off we went. COuld this have happened from corrosion, or is the only realistic option that the prop was removed and reinstalled incorrectly (or something else that I haven't thought of)
 
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