VP 2006 5.7 Osxi died; won't start.

[nwripple]

Hi. My 2006 VP 5.7 osxi (EFI) died while on a plane (3200 rpms maybe) this weekend. Won't start. Got towed home (thanks Boat US)

Has about 1200 hours...can't say its been trouble free as a whole (have replaced fuel pump, water pump, starter, manifolds, and that XDP outdrive) but the motor itself has run well all along. New Ocean X outdrive last fall. Recently tuned up, new cap and rotor, new coil (due to what I thought was a "hot start" problem, but am now wondering if it's related), new BEP VSR battery cluster (almost certainly unrelated...it wasn't charging my house battery, it is now). Boat gets used a lot, does not live in water, had lots of new gas.

batteries good. oil good. did not overheat. no alarm. It acted like the kill switch was pulled, but it does not have one. I get the normal three beeps when I turn the key...motor will crank but won't start. The low and hi fuel pumps will energize when the key is on (I disconnected them, one at a time, to check). no blown fuses on engine. rotated spark and fuel relays, all seem to work, no changes.

It seems like fuel or electrical problem to me but I'm not much of a wrench. Any ideas? Love to hear its cheap easy and or fast. Would settle for fast. Summer's short. I called my guy but I wasn't his first call this week. Thanks in advance.

 

[tpenfield]

It does sound ignition related . . . One thing you could do is pull a spark plug out and re-connect it to its ignition wire, put it in a grounded location where you can see it, and crank the engine to see if you are getting a spark.

EFI/MPI engines are a bit tough to trouble shoot with manual methods. Often a computer diagnostic tool is needed.

 

[Scott Danforth]

got fuel pressure? your pumps may run, however do you have fuel pressure?
got spark? if not, check for voltage at the + side of the coil

 

[211libwtfo]

My only advice ever is to check that damn anti siphon valve. That many hours I’m putting money there especially with all of those other new parts

 

[Lou C]

Agreed start with the most basic things first. A 2006 is now 12 seasons old....

 

[nwripple]

Thanks folks I will look at those. Unfortunately I don't have a pressure gauge or a diagnostic reader.

Boat is a Holby Pilot 24 ... well designed and built. But for the life of me I can't find the Anti siphon valve or the fuel pick up. seems to be under the deck, which has a theoretically removable piece but the seat units are on top of it... taking that up would be a big job all by itself. There is an access port for the fuel gauge sender but the pickup is somewhere else. It is a 120 gallon plastic tank, from that access port it looks clean and dry. I'll report back.

 

[nwripple]

Update: went down after work with a new spark plug socket and fuel pressure gauge I bought today. socket too short and I'm not convinced its fuel, so... My mechanic told me to check the main wiring harness so I tried to work on that.
Not sure how its supposed to come apart (no twisting, right? just straight out? any retainers or anything?) ... well I couldn't get it apart, pulled pretty hard. did not want to break something that wasn't already broke so I sort of impulsively decided to try and start it again instead.

started immediately. in fact the forward two spark plug wires on the port side were not connected. It was not on a hose and was in a place you're not supposed to run it, so I immediately turned it off (~2 seconds)

But I didn't really change anything...basically just jiggled some wires.
And here's the thing--the engine was pulled when I got the new outdrive last fall...so they had to take that connection apart, right?

maybe 25 engine hours since then, no heavy seas or rain on it, not much time to corrode that connection, right? I do run in salt water exclusively (puget sound, wa)...its FWC and stored in a warehouse, flushed regularly. I try hard to take good care of it.

so now what? kinda reluctant to just run it and wait for the other shoe to drop at a bad place or time. Mechanic is "booked thru july" but he is going to take a quick look when he's down there tomorrow... any thoughts? Thanks!


.

 

[211libwtfo]

The fuel line that feeds the motor from the tank it’s probably right at the tank.

 

[nwripple]

211--You mean the AS valve, yes? fuel line comes out a hole in forward wall of engine compartment...goes to water fuel separator mounted on that front wall, then to smaller filter on the fuel pump(s) on the front starboard side of the motor. fill and vent are forward, on the port side.
I did open the fuel cap, btw, which may have vented something? it did not make a sucking sound and was easy to open.

 

[nwripple]

Mechanic looked at it while he was down there. He too had trouble pulling the main wiring harness apart - said it showed signs of heat and damage; was sort of fused together.... He greased it put back together and it started but did not run very well. He said first step is to cut out that connector and splice the butt splice/heat shrink the wires together--if engine is pulled in future it would have to be cut and re-done but I can live with that...

He thought there was some sort of voltage issue, and might be some other voltage-related damage downstream -- distributor or ECM....timing seemed "off"...I'm not sure what caused the heat (corrosion resistance? bad connection ?) or the voltage problem - I did have a problem charging the house battery which led me to replace the VSR and rest of BEP cluster, but that problem seemed to have resolved-house went to high 13 volts range when running, when it ran...anyway the boat does not have a ton of hours since the connector was re-connected when the engine was put back in (new outdrive) last fall....

Anyway I'm gonna try that tomorrow and see what happens.
Any tips or warnings on that?

thanks

 

[nwripple]

Okay...I did cut out the "cannon" (?) (main engine harness) connector; it was extremely hard to pull apart and one of the female "sleeves" came about 1/4 inch out of one side when I did. Fun fact only 8 of the ten wires are color coordinated, but it was pretty easy to figure which way to connect the other two - one way, the alarm beeped immediately, the other way I got back to where I was before -- fuel pumps ran, alarm beeped its customary three times, turned over but would not start. Anyway I used butt connectors with heat shrink ends; will wrap the whole mess with rescue tape I think.

it did not sound great - little inconsistent, sort of hesitated a little while cranking - and sort of wheezed at the end, then when key was turned off it sort of clicked or rattled for a few seconds? hard to describe.

One guy on the competing forum suggested it was my new distributor cap -- the flat plastic kind....I dunno. will check, though my mechanic said it looked okay. They do have a bad reputation.

So it seems I need a code reader, or maybe should spring for a scanner (ouch$) what is a good one for an 06 MPI 5.7Osxi EF? how do I tell if it is mefi 4 or mefi 5? google is not helping on that, surprisingly. nor is the seloc manual I just got. My ecm looks like a vertical small paperback, has a sort of slide on connector on the inside that I have not yet undone. I also seem to have three sort of wiring "pigtails" near my on-engine fuse/relay holder - two connectors are round, one is rectangular. Just learned there is a difference in the MEFis and have not checked the part number to try and find out that way (boat is back up in the warehouse.)

Google does suggest that a regular automotive code reader will not work, either way. is this correct? Any advice?

 

[nwripple]

ECM is part no. 3818628 looks like this: does this help?

 

[NoExcuses]

One of the Rinda scan tools should work.

http://www.rinda.com/marine/marine.htm

 

[nwripple]

Yeah that's the page I found....Would like to maybe start with the "code mate" but I don't know and don't know how to find out what MEFI I have; it says it doesn't work with "MEFI 5". Even with the tech pro I need to know that info for the correct adapter I think. I will call them. Thanks

 

[muc]

That’s EGC, not MEFI. Code reader won’t work, need scan tool.

 

[nwripple]

Thanks Muc - I figured it out and ordered the right one...should be here tomorrow.

 

[nwripple]

Well I got the Rinda Tech mate pro - pretty slick. recognized engine and ecm, hours etc.

It had only one new (12 starts ago) code - "fuel pump relay coil open" [627] - switched the fuel and ignition relays (they are the same) and no changes in the "cranks but wont start" situation, but it did throw a brand new code - "starter relay coil open" [685]

so I chucked that relay and replaced with a spare I had. [I had that spare because my fuel cell relay got hot - kinda melted on the side actually- and died a few years ago and, I had the same symptom - died suddenly, wouldn't start. Got out of that mess pretty quick with a new relay, bought a spare just in case...]

anyway, I cleared the codes and tried again...
engine started right up BUT it died almost immediately... no alarms or lights or codes ... I did that five or six times over 20 minutes or so...no new codes on the Rinda but it still won't stay running...so it seems I have a least two problems?

My list includes distributor, wires to and from distributor, fuel pumps, fuel pressure regulator, some other sensor out of whack (oil pressure switch? read something about ECM will override that to start but if pressure doesn't come up right away it kills it?) But, again, no codes...

Any thoughts? thank you.

 

[nwripple]

Well I said I wouldn't let the thread die until I got it resolved...I hope it is almost over, though.

There is a bunch of info on the Rinda that I am not qualified to interpret...faults I can see and look up and research but other parameters don't mean much to me.
My scan showed engine load at 89%...I did not think much of it. also barometric and manifold pressure over 15 psi, IAC at 132 or something...no idea what those mean.
so today my back up mechanic (formerly a starter, may be again) called and said he was on my boat and he thinks he figured it out with his diacom scanner (which, reassuringly, showed same info as mine)

he says that 89 % is WAY off for a not-running motor, and the fuel pulse width or whatever its called -- 58ms -- is WAY to long - ECM is pumping fuel like the motor is WOT. showed me black and wet (with gas) spark plugs...says its the MAP sensor and if I replace that I should be good to go. So I ordered one, and will know more on the 9th.

anybody think this is right or wrong? makes sense to me....thanks and have a good 4th!

 

[nwripple]

also the Rinda showed a MAP (and IAT?) fault when he disconnected that sensor, and tried to start, which did not work. that's all I know and more.

 

[tpenfield]

IAT = Intake Air Temperature

58 ms injector pulse does sound way high

If you want, post a screen shot of the Rinda data for further comment.