Volvo Penta GXi-E Low Power and 2 DTCs

[swalker80020]

Hello Boat Wizards! I am pulling my hair out (what's left of it anyway, lol) trying to figure out what is going on with by boat! Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Firstly here is my boat info:

• 2004 Four Winns 214 Funship
• 5.0 GXI-E Volvo Penta (SN: 4012107862) with low hours (294 hours)
• Volvo Penta SX outdrive

Problem: Boat unable to get up on plane with more than 4 people on the boat and slow to plane with 3 or less. Unable to get RPMs over 4200 under any load (even just one person). The computer is showing two DTC codes: (41) EST SYSTEM HAS OPEN CIRCUIT and (41) EST Fault – EST A Fault. I am able to clear the codes with Diacom software, but they immediately return as soon as I start the engine. Here is everything I have done so far (not necessarily in this order):

• Removed, tested, cleaned, re-tested and reinstalled fuel injectors
• Replaced ignition coil and control module
• Replaced distributor cap and rotor
• Replaced spark plugs and wires
• Replaced fuel pump
• Tested high and low fuel pressures (both within nominal ranges)
• Tested compression on all cylinders (all 135 - 140)
• Reduced prop to 15” four blade stainless (to eliminate over pitch possibility, 19” standard prop)
• ECM removed and tested, no issues

The last time I was on the lake, I used the Diacom to shut down one cylinder at a time while under load (~2300 RPM). A slight decrease of power was observed when shutting off all but two cylinders (3 and 8), which makes me think they are not getting fuel or fire but I have already replaced or cleaned everything that I would think could cause that. I feel like if I can figure out why I can't permanently clear the DTCs, I will solve the issue, but not sure what else to do to clear codes.

Thank you in advance for any advice you may have!!

 

[alldodge]

Run these test

 

[swalker80020]

Run these test

Thanks for the quick reply alldodge! I should have mentioned in my initial posting, but I have gone through those steps. However, I only used a multimeter because I did not have a test lamp and assumed a 12v reading on the multimeter would light up the test lamp. Is this true? Anyway, going through the steps lead me to Step 16: replace the ECM, which rather than replace, I sent in to be tested. Testing results came back: "All Sensors, Relays and IAC - Good", "Harness with Injectors - Good", and "IC and Bypass - Good". So, unless a multimeter is not sufficient and a test lamp is required, I could not find a short and ECM appears to be ok. If there was a short, can it be intermittent? Thanks again for any advice!

 

[alldodge]

Timing is not advancing far enough so you have lower power. The DTC-41 is the ECM is getting a high or low signal (not normal) on the ignition timing circuit. Voltage variance could be from the component, bad ground or power connection.

Input to the ECM comes from the Cam position (if installed) and Crankshaft position sensors. Voltage reading for the timing circuit is read from the ICM.

The ICM module is p/n 3858984 and cost about $800 from VP. Found one at Hardin marine for $38, and the one for a Merc is $350

Not saying this is the issue but sure is looking like the area

 

[swalker80020]

Timing is not advancing far enough so you have lower power. The DTC-41 is the ECM is getting a high or low signal (not normal) on the ignition timing circuit. Voltage variance could be from the component, bad ground or power connection.

Input to the ECM comes from the Cam position (if installed) and Crankshaft position sensors. Voltage reading for the timing circuit is read from the ICM.

The ICM module is p/n 3858984 and cost about $800 from VP. Found one at Hardin marine for $38, and the one for a Merc is $350

Not saying this is the issue but sure is looking like the area

View attachment 331877

I believe the ICM was included in the coil assembly I replaced, but I was leaning in the same direction that it is something to do with the timing. I have purchased a new camshaft position sensor, but have not installed yet and won't be able to test until Spring. I have a recording of boat going through a couple idle to WOT under load and the spark advance was 33-35 deg at WOT (~4000 RPM). Is that nominal? I have attached the diacom file in case you have same software.

 

[alldodge]

I don't have diacom (have Techmate) but maybe @tpenfield can have a look

Check the connections coming from the ICM, and insure the ground pin is making a good ground

Are any of the parts replaced non-OEM?
Not saying they are bad, just taking note of

The cam and crank plugs in good shape and making good connection?

 

[tpenfield]

I'll have to load the Diacom software to my new computer ( I got rid of the old one that had it installed). . . but I can possibly do that this weekend.

Fault code 41 is the EST ignition system, but it sounds like you have replaced a bunch of stuff related (and unrelated) to the EST fault. Probably too much stuff. . . .

 

[alldodge]

Ted, Its an EST module but not in the distributor. The module is mounted to the coil and it uses the HSV distributor (flat cap)

 

[swalker80020]

I don't have diacom (have Techmate) but maybe @tpenfield can have a look

Check the connections coming from the ICM, and insure the ground pin is making a good ground

Are any of the parts replaced non-OEM?
Not saying they are bad, just taking note of

The cam and crank plugs in good shape and making good connection?

Connections from the ICM look good. I mostly get OEM, but not always the case. I do make sure the ratings are good, but you are right, you get what you pay for sometimes. I will check the cam and crank plugs when I install the new camshaft position sensor.

 

[swalker80020]

I'll have to load the Diacom software to my new computer ( I got rid of the old one that had it installed). . . but I can possibly do that this weekend.

Fault code 41 is the EST ignition system, but it sounds like you have replaced a bunch of stuff related (and unrelated) to the EST fault. Probably too much stuff. . . .

Thanks tpenfield. Guaranteed I replaced too much. I am about to put a whole new motor in it because this is driving me nuts!!

 

[alldodge]

Connections from the ICM look good.

Looks are deciving, use your ohm meter and connect from pin C to ground and see what kind of ohm reading you get. Ohm out the other connector pins as seen in post 4

 

[swalker80020]

Looks are deciving, use your ohm meter and connect from pin C to ground and see what kind of ohm reading you get. Ohm out the other connector pins as seen in post 4

Will do this weekend hopefully (weather depending). Thanks again for the advice!

 

[tpenfield]

I loaded my Diacom SW and ran the recording . . .

The two '41' codes are present as stated. This engine (MEFI-4) is a lot newer than my engine (MEFI-1), so I'm not familiar with some of values . . .

Here is a clip of the values while the engine was run up to WOT and then back down.

It looks like this engine has variable valve timing (???) . I'm not sure about the 45˚ +/- readings . . . I saw somewhere on the Internet that the MEFI does not give the best reading for this vs. automotive OBD2 data.

What is the history of this engine/boat? Did it ever run properly? Is there MEFI data from when it did run properly?

I would address the 41 codes (open circuit on EST module ??? maybe) Might that be a wiring issue? Then see where that leaves you.

34˚ timing advance at WOT does seem a bit high, but maybe it is OK. I wonder if it is trying to compensate for something that the ICM is not doing.

 

[tpenfield]

BTW - as far as fault codes (DTC's) even though you clear them, they will come right back if the issue still remains. . . as you may have figured out.

 

[alldodge]

Assuming short run from idle to WOT and back to idle
Didn't see anything that stood out, so it may just be the low fuel pressure

 

[QBhoy]

Couple of things in my head. If it’s maxing out at around the early to mid 4000’s rpm. It could be because it’s in a 90% gaurdian mode as a result of the est you mentioned.
I’m known to drone on about the diz cap on these...and clearly read you said you’ve replaced it already. But thought I’d ask if you replaced it since this issue started or even recently without it being sitting for a while. These can 100% fail just from sitting over winter or in damp conditions. If you’ve replaced it not long ago and as part of the trouble shooting..then that’s fine.
but without doubt...if you mean you’ve just replaced it at some point in the past and ruling it out as being considered good...honestly, I wouldn’t rely on that idea. Shorting and lack of ignition between cylinders is one of the signs of many, which these diz caps can throw at you.

 

[swalker80020]

Couple of things in my head. If it’s maxing out at around the early to mid 4000’s rpm. It could be because it’s in a 90% gaurdian mode as a result of the est you mentioned.
I’m known to drone on about the diz cap on these...and clearly read you said you’ve replaced it already. But thought I’d ask if you replaced it since this issue started or even recently without it being sitting for a while. These can 100% fail just from sitting over winter or in damp conditions. If you’ve replaced it not long ago and as part of the trouble shooting..then that’s fine.
but without doubt...if you mean you’ve just replaced it at some point in the past and ruling it out as being considered good...honestly, I wouldn’t rely on that idea. Shorting and lack of ignition between cylinders is one of the signs of many, which these diz caps can throw at you.

Thanks for the reply QBhoy. It was actually the first thing that was replaced when the problem started and this was an OEM cap, btw. I did not know about the 90% guardian mode. Would that keep the RPMs low in neutral too? I am able to quickly rev up the engine to 4800+ (had more throttle, but stopped at 4.8K to not do any damage) in neutral. Has anyone heard about having too much oil? The oil level is at the top 10% of the dipstick when the boat is in the water, but can that be reading wrong?

 

[alldodge]

IF it was in any kind of guardian mode, it would have no effect in neutral do to no load. Takes very little fuel to reach WOT rpm

What do you mean by top 10% of dipstick?
Its 10% over the full mark?

 

[swalker80020]

I loaded my Diacom SW and ran the recording . . .

The two '41' codes are present as stated. This engine (MEFI-4) is a lot newer than my engine (MEFI-1), so I'm not familiar with some of values . . .

Here is a clip of the values while the engine was run up to WOT and then back down.

It looks like this engine has variable valve timing (???) . I'm not sure about the 45˚ +/- readings . . . I saw somewhere on the Internet that the MEFI does not give the best reading for this vs. automotive OBD2 data.

What is the history of this engine/boat? Did it ever run properly? Is there MEFI data from when it did run properly?

I would address the 41 codes (open circuit on EST module ??? maybe) Might that be a wiring issue? Then see where that leaves you.

34˚ timing advance at WOT does seem a bit high, but maybe it is OK. I wonder if it is trying to compensate for something that the ICM is not doing.

Thanks for the reply tpenfield! Yes, it does have variable timing. I don't know enough about the timing to know what are good or bad readings.

The history: I just bought this boat last summer. It did seem to run properly for the first 3-4 outings before the power issues started. Before I started replacing/repairing things, it got to the point where I could not get on plane with even one person in the boat. The previous owner said he did not use it much and when he did it was mostly used as a floating island...hardly ever went wide open with it. At the time I was thinking 'great'! Now I am thinking it was because it wasn't running well enough to run fast or to even use. My first thought was bad/old gas, but many tanks of new (no ethanol) gas have been put though it since. Then the repairs cascaded from there.

 

[swalker80020]

IF it was in any kind of guardian mode, it would have no effect in neutral do to no load. Takes very little fuel to reach WOT rpm

What do you mean by top 10% of dipstick?
Its 10% over the full mark?

Good to know alldodge! What I meant was at or below but within 10% of full mark on dipstick. I have never measured it over full mark.