Volvo Penta 225 bellows crack due to freezing -- how bad is this?

[Lou-Ney-Toon]

Greetings

I am brand new to the forum, relatively new to powerboating, and completely devoid of any and all I/O knowledge, so please bear with me.

I am considering the purchase of a boat with a Volvo Penta 225D sterndrive from the late 70's, with about 400 hours on it. The owner told me that it is in "great shape" except he left the drive tilted up for the winter, and it got water in it and the bellows cracked when the temp dropped below zero. The boat is a long distance away, and I'm wondering (1) how big a deal is a cracked bellows, (2) what other damage might this have caused, (3) what other winterization should have been done, (4) how can I tell if it was done or not, and (5) what other sorts of problems and symptoms should I be looking for if I decide to go inspect her (or any other used stern drive)?

Any and all advice will be appreciated.

thanx
--LouNeyToon

 

[Bondo]

Re: Volvo Penta 225 bellows crack due to freezing -- how bad is this?

Ayuh,.... Welcome Aboard...

A boat with Freeze damage, that's 35 years old, Ain't worth goin' to look at....

Keep Looking....

 

[ENSIGN]

Re: Volvo Penta 225 bellows crack due to freezing -- how bad is this?

keep looking and never believe the seller

 

[Don S]

Re: Volvo Penta 225 bellows crack due to freezing -- how bad is this?

Was that the lower bellows or the upper one that cracked?
If water froze in the exhaust bellows (lower bellows), then the water was also in the Y pipe in the engine compartment. It probably broke also. That will require an engine pull to replace, and a new Y pipe (if you can find one)
If water was in the upper bellows, well, it shouldn't have had water there at all. If it's split, things are going to get real expensive, real quick.

 

[zbnutcase]

Re: Volvo Penta 225 bellows crack due to freezing -- how bad is this?

I would think the only way a bellows would freeze crack is if it was old and hard, meaning the boat hasen't had any maintaince done in a long time-PASS!

 

[Lou-Ney-Toon]

Re: Volvo Penta 225 bellows crack due to freezing -- how bad is this?

So it seems I had the story not quite right. It was the upper bellows that cracked, but it was due to being stretched by having the outdrive tilted up and then the temperature dropped to 18 below. There was no water involved. I'm attaching a photo of the bellows.

Three questions:
1) How big a job is it to replace the bellows?
2) What other problems should I be looking for?
3) Is the boat test-drivable with the bellows in this condition? It would be in fresh water.

thanx
--LouNeyToon

 

[captmello]

Re: Volvo Penta 225 bellows crack due to freezing -- how bad is this?

Like mentioned earlier, a bellows shouldn't crack from freezing. It was most likely cracked from age and neglect. While I believe the older VP outdrives are hard to destroy, and will last forever if maintained properly, it's clear this outdrive hasn't been well cared for.

Inside that bellows are the ujoints which are not supposed to get wet. They get rusty and will need replacing. That bellows also protects the bearings between the engine and outdrive. Once they get wet and go bad, you have to pull the engine to replace them. Many of us have done that job, and would expect the bearings in that boat to be bad as well. Water in the ujoint bellows will also corrode the parts on the outdrive side of the ujoints as well causing the seals to go bad allowing the outdrive oil to leak into the bellows, and allow water to get sucked into the outdrive. I have seen all this first hand on my outdrive. Replacing the bellows is the easy part. It should be done every two years. Ask the owner when he/she changed it last.

Not trying to scare you, just letting you know what you may be up against if you purchase this boat. All of these repairs can be done by a competent shade tree mechanic, with the exception of the outdrive, upper gear box seals which require a bit of knowhow and technique, imo.

Can you test drive it like it is? My guess is the owners been using it this way for a while now, so sure, one more dip won't make much difference.

 

[Lou-Ney-Toon]

Re: Volvo Penta 225 bellows crack due to freezing -- how bad is this?

Thanx Cap'n Mello. Don't worry about scaring me -- it might be just what I need! But srsly, I don't mind putting some work into the boat, but I want to have some idea of how much I need to discount the price, and how careful I have to be before the repairs are done.

The owner says he replaced the bellows 2 years ago when he bought the boat. I got the impression that he did the work himself, and he used an aftermarket part. He's put a couple hundred hours on it since.

Two more questions:
1) When the u-joints and bearings fail, how much warning do they give, and how subtle is the warning? For example, when the CV joints on a car fail, they give off a growling sort of noise for quite a few hundred miles (if not more) which is fairly easy to hear if (a) you know what to listen for, and (b) you bother to listen for it, but if you miss the warnings, the failure is sudden and catastrophic, but relatively contained (i.e. you are going to have to call a tow truck, but the busted cv joint isn't going to break anything else). Is a u-joint failure on a stern drive similar?

2) How much should it cost to have these items replaced by somebody who knows what they are doing? Knowing absolutely nothing, and having never seen a stern drive taken apart, my gut feeling is it ought to be in the ball park of several hundred dollars for the parts, and 5 or so hours of labor (I think that is about what it took to replace the clutch on my old VW).

3) Is it possible to inspect the u-joints without doing further damage to the bellows?

thanx
--LouNeyToon

 

[captmello]

Re: Volvo Penta 225 bellows crack due to freezing -- how bad is this?

Without typing a page worth of reasons and posibilities, I bet if you paid a marine mechanic to bring your drivetrain up to date, assuming you need to replace ujoints, flywheel cover bearings, reseal the outdrive, and who knows what else the boat will need, you'll pay 2-3 grand when all is said and done. Maybe more.

I don't believe the owner replaced the bellows in the picture two years ago. That rubber is so cracked and brittle looking, I bet its ten years old and I'll bet its been leaking for the last 5+ years. thats what my gut tells me anyway. I replaced my bellows last year. It was two years old and looked brand new. No cracking or tearing at all.

The story doesn't add up. in your first post you stated the boat is 30+ years old, and has 400 hours on it. Now you say he changed the bellows two years ago and has put a couple hundred hours on since. Unless the boat sat in a warehouse for 25 years...

1) Yes the ujoint do make noise and give warning of their future failure. But they are really a minor issue compared to the intermediate bearing replacement, which is not that difficult, but is time consuming since the engine has to come out, followed by the work replacing the bearings. These bearings will typically also grind when they go bad, and if they fail, it can ruin the flywheel housing and just cost you more money in expensive parts. Also, finding a mechanic in your area who knows how to work on the older Volvo outdrives may be hard to find. I'd call around before buying just for that reason.

2) If you're talking about an old rear engine VW bug type clutch, That's a walk in the park. I've done that job as well.
I'm not a Pro, just a shadetree type. I wouldn't buy the boat if you can't do the work. Your better off getting something newer, with a Mercruiser outdrive. And get whatever you buy, checked out by a pro before buying. Older used boats are a gamble and unless you can afford 2-3 grand in surprises after you buy, pay to have it checked over first.

Again not trying to scare, just don't want you to get yourself into something you can't finish.