Vintage Glastron/Carlson help? 1978 CVX-18

[DasCobra]

Hey guys. Friend just bought (Last night) a nice 78 Glastron/Carlson CVX-18 and he is seeking my help and thus I am turning to you guys since the Glastron forum is "Pending approval of my account"....

It is an OMC stern drive (305 Chevy). Starts right up and motor seems to run strong. He called me last night and told me he tried to test drive it for the first time and the boat will not go into forward gear. It will shift into reverse properly and rev in neutral properly, but when shifted into forward gear will only rev like it is in neutral.

The guy he bought it from said they had it out the the weekend before and the boat ran great, pulled tubes, etc. He said he is selling because he bought a newer/bigger boat. However, I have not had a chance to talk with the previous owner today.

With that said, I plan to go have a look at the boat tonight and looking for advice on where to start. Shifter linkage? Lower unit? any tricks with these older style boats with the separate tilt and motor trim? Sloppy shifter?

Any ideas help.

Thanks!

 

[Nivekt]

Re: Vintage Glastron/Carlson help? 1978 CVX-18

Hey guys. Friend just bought (Last night) a nice 78 Glastron/Carlson CVX-18 and he is seeking my help and thus I am turning to you guys since the Glastron forum is "Pending approval of my account"....

It is an OMC stern drive (305 Chevy). Starts right up and motor seems to run strong. He called me last night and told me he tried to test drive it for the first time and the boat will not go into forward gear. It will shift into reverse properly and rev in neutral properly, but when shifted into forward gear will only rev like it is in neutral.

The guy he bought it from said they had it out the the weekend before and the boat ran great, pulled tubes, etc. He said he is selling because he bought a newer/bigger boat. However, I have not had a chance to talk with the previous owner today.

With that said, I plan to go have a look at the boat tonight and looking for advice on where to start. Shifter linkage? Lower unit? any tricks with these older style boats with the separate tilt and motor trim? Sloppy shifter?

Any ideas help.

Thanks!

Based on the year I would guess that this is a hydro-mechanical shift drive but there is the possibility that it is an electric shift. Got any pictures of the drive or do you know for sure which drive it is?

 

[DasCobra]

Re: Vintage Glastron/Carlson help? 1978 CVX-18

Thanks for the response. Here is the deal, my buddy is novice a to boating and the seller screwed him. End of story. And I'm not very happy about it. My buddy has tried to contact the seller to no avail. and he seems to have run off with the money. So we are gonna fix it and make it a bad *** machine! I am no experienced marine mechanic, but fairly knowledgeable with stern drives and fairly mechanically knowledgeable.

With that said, I turn to the forums to try to get us out of a pickle. It is an omc 800 mated to a chevy 305 OMC 225 motor. here are a couple photos:











I disconnected the shifter cable from the drivers controls and manually, the lower unit will go into reverse, but will not go into forward gear. At this point, I am thinking either a disconnected or broken cable from the transom to the lower unit or actually a bad forward gear in the lower unit. I also noticed gear oil running out of the lower unit tonight that was not leaking yesterday.

Any thoughts to what we are looking at to repair? gear and set of seals? also... possibility of locations to buy parts?

Thanks again, in advance.

 

[DasCobra]

Re: Vintage Glastron/Carlson help? 1978 CVX-18

Another couple pics that didnt load last night to bump it to the top....

 

[Howard Sterndrive]

Re: Vintage Glastron/Carlson help? 1978 CVX-18

Probably the most pressing issue in pics is the missing welsh or welch plug over the obviously new ball gear on the upper gearcase. With that plug gone, the upper will lose all gear lube and get full of water. That might be where the gear lube leak is originating from.

That lower unit is a mismatch - it's a later (silver paint and anode= 1984 or 1985) "full mechanical" lower unit. Where a 1978 was a hydromechanical. The problem with that mismatch is that a 1978 boat won't normally have an ESA (Electronic Shift Assist) system on it and that lower needs one. Without an ESA that newer lower unit will not want to shift out of gear into neutral because of the positive angle of the clutch engagement dogs. All the forcing it to neutral has possibly stretched or broken the lower shift cable. ($700 part)

EDIT- however, I notice in the one pic, the ESA switches and silver painted parts of the shift converter ARE present- so whoever swapped the lower musta stole the ESA system from the donor boat - good sign if they did all the work right.

couple of places to start:
http://www.crowleymarine.com/support/tech_articles/omc-stringer-shift-system-troubleshooting.html
http://www.crowleymarine.com/support/tech_articles/omc-stringer-nominal-neutral-adjustment.html
http://www.crowleymarine.com/suppor...installation-of-cable-in-shift-converter.html

 

[DasCobra]

Re: Vintage Glastron/Carlson help? 1978 CVX-18

Thanks for the response and links. I agree with the mismatch, but didnt know what or where the lower unit came from. The ESA switches are there..... but are not hooked up. I noticed that last night.

Where would you recommend starting to investigate damage to the lower shifter cable?

 

[Howard Sterndrive]

Re: Vintage Glastron/Carlson help? 1978 CVX-18

ok, back to my original theory that the cables got stretched or broken from shifting without the assistance of an ESA... you really have to yank em to get the dogs to disengage - dangerous as well as harming the cable
just follow those instructions for the nominal neutral adj., then if there's too much travel, remove the shift converter cover and have a look at the cables.
disconnect the battery before removing any cables though, as there's bare, live V+ terminals all around that motor.

 

[DasCobra]

Re: Vintage Glastron/Carlson help? 1978 CVX-18

Would the weaker point of the cable likely be at the connection to the "shift and adapter housing" or at the connection to the shifting assembly in the lower gear case?

 

[Howard Sterndrive]

Re: Vintage Glastron/Carlson help? 1978 CVX-18

it's weak everywhere- it's probably designed for 5 or 10 pounds force, and has been seeing 50.

 

[DasCobra]

Re: Vintage Glastron/Carlson help? 1978 CVX-18

The fact that it shifts into and out of reverse and seems to ALMOST shift into forward gear steers you further into a stretched/damaged cable theory, correct? When I say ALMOST into forward, I mean that when I manually spin the prop and switch the shift adapter into forward, I can hear the lightest "ticking" like it is trying to go into gear, but not quite far enough.

It is looking like storms tonight so I am not certain I can have a look at it tonight, but all this information is much needed and much appreciated!

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Vintage Glastron/Carlson help? 1978 CVX-18

Yep, on close examination and reading your comments there are some glaring issues there. First and foremost is the fact that you have a Mechanical shift stringer with the ESA disconnected. Did you try to shift the drive, with the helm cable disconnected, by the arm on the shift converter?

 

[DasCobra]

Re: Vintage Glastron/Carlson help? 1978 CVX-18

Yes. I disconnected the helm cable and engaged/disengaged the reverse gear by hand by turning the arm on the shift converter. It shifts smoothly in and out of reverse either by hand not running and when it was in the water during the test run.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Vintage Glastron/Carlson help? 1978 CVX-18

...but no forward? If so, I would open up the converter and remove the shift cables from their tracks and see what gives. The forward cable cannot be broken or disconnected because once you pull the reverse cable, the only way you can get it out of reverse is to pull the forward cable. It could, however, be stretched. If so, you should see slack in the cable as it is threaded over the the idler pulley and quadrant.

 

[DasCobra]

Re: Vintage Glastron/Carlson help? 1978 CVX-18

GREAT. Will start there. Thanks again for all your guys help! It is much appreciated and I will report back.

 

[Howard Sterndrive]

Re: Vintage Glastron/Carlson help? 1978 CVX-18

that distributor is an HEI unit out of a car too - not really safe or correct on a boat. that vacuum advance is a dead giveaway - boats don't really work with that.
carb probably not marine either. I'd also check the fuel pump - I don't see any overflow/diaphragm rupture hose going into the carb per coast guard requirements and common sense safety practice.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Vintage Glastron/Carlson help? 1978 CVX-18

that distributor is an HEI unit out of a car too - not really safe or correct on a boat. that vacuum advance is a dead giveaway - boats don't really work with that.
carb probably not marine either. I'd also check the fuel pump - I don't see any overflow/diaphragm rupture hose going into the carb per coast guard requirements and common sense safety practice.

Me think that you mixed up posts?

 

[Nivekt]

Re: Vintage Glastron/Carlson help? 1978 CVX-18

Me think that you mixed up posts?

Naw, take a look at the OP's first picture. I see what Howard is talking about.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Vintage Glastron/Carlson help? 1978 CVX-18

Naw, take a look at the OP's first picture. I see what Howard is talking about.

Gotya on that. I missed it. Now all the OP has to do is to lose that whale tail when he gets every thing else in order.

 

[DasCobra]

Re: Vintage Glastron/Carlson help? 1978 CVX-18

Thanks again for all the help guys.....

The thread/situation may have taken a turn for the better last night. I FINALLY got ahold of the seller. He said the boat was working fine the last time they used it and was surprised to hear it was not working. He basically said "I sold a working boat, so if its not working, bring it back!" Good to know there are still decent people around. I just couldnt imagine someone blatantly lying to your face and selling you something that they know is not right.

Again, I am not the seller, nor the buyer, but I did suggest to my buddy (buyer) that he should just let the guy have the boat back, get a refund and tell the guy to call him when its a running boat. This will save him and I the headache of working on it as well as give him the option to run away all together should he decide to.

Thanks again for all your guy's help and I will let you know what happens.

 

[Howard Sterndrive]

Re: Vintage Glastron/Carlson help? 1978 CVX-18

sounds promising. Of course there are different definitions of "working", but if he can demo it propelling itself across a lake that's better than where you're at now. and at least the guy is taking calls. "safe" would be nice too, but that stuff can be remedied- just leave the blower running with that automotive stuff on there.

Things to look at for marine specific safety gear:
starter
alternator
distributor
carb
fuel pump