VHF question.

[BoneDigger]

I just recently purchased a Standard Horizon Quest VHF and hooked it up a couple of weeks ago. I purchased a used 8 ft Shakespeare fiberglass antenna (the sticker is gone so I'm not sure of the model number) and installed it as well. Last weekend I took the boat out fishing on a local lake and had a hard time communicating with a friend's VHF when distance exceeded 1/2 mile, even if line of site was clear and even if the radio was on high power. I could barely hear him at this distance and he couldn't hear me at all.<br /><br />I plan to have the adaptor saudered/sodered (sp?) to the coax but at present I have a screw on type. Also, the radio is hotwired into existing wires in the console and not run directly to the battery.<br /><br />Do you think the problem is the antenna, wiring, or the antenna connection? I can pick up weather channels fine with the unit. Is there a way to check the output both of the unit and through the antenna to make sure the antenna is OK? At closer distances we communicated with no problems.<br /><br />I appreciate any help.<br /><br />Todd

 

[Boatist]

Re: VHF question.

BoneDigger<br />With out any equipment it is pretty hard to isolate the problem. It could be your radio is fine and the problem is with your friends radio. Personaly I would never buy a used unknown antenna.<br /><br />To start with did you have your radio set to local or dx. I am pretty sure Standard Horizon has this feature. The local setting is for close talking with close by radios. It will reduce the input signal of the reciever so boats nearby do not overload your radios front end. Second was the squelch of the radios set where the static is just cut off with no signal being recieved. Were you both talking on the same channel and what channel were you useing. Some channel only use one watt power even if set to 25 watts. Also some channels are duplex instead of simplex. I guess that pretty much covers the operation issues.<br /><br />To check the Radio and antenna you really need a standing wave Bridge to check the SWR. Also helps if you have a dummy load. A SWR meter from a CB radio offten will give incorrect readings as they are not designed for VHF frequency. If you know a Ham radio operater that has a 2 meter radio he will likely have a SWR meter that will work with VHF Marine. If you have access to a SWR meter you can check the output of your radio and the reflected power and know if the radio is the problem or the antenna. A dummy load will let check the radio without the antenna. Todays radio's all protect them selfs from broken antenna, shorted coax, or open coax. What they do is shut down the power so as not to blow the finals. Connection to the radio needs to be clean and tight. Often people soldering on the pl259 connector on use too much heat and melt the center coductor and this caused the coax to be shorted. Small flexable VHF antenna often brake the wires inside the antenna and there is no way to tell without a SWR meter. The larger heaver 1 inch very little flex type antenna usually hold up better on a boat. Power to the Radio needs to have good heavy wire. You can check this with a voltmeter by setting the radio on 25 watts and keying the transmiter and watching the volt meter for any voltage drop. I would not want to see the voltage go below 12 volts. With the engine running it should stay at least 13 volts. Even in the 1 watt mode acrossed open water with a 6 DB antenna you should be able to talk 1 to 2 miles with no problem.<br />Good Luck

 

[jim phillips]

Re: VHF question.

I just installed a ranger vhf raido and a 5' fiberglass antenna that i got on ebay and with 25 watts received a raido check from a base 200 miles away. I would replace the antenna.<br /><br /> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31278&item=2478161319&rd=1

 

[ThomWV]

Re: VHF question.

I once received a TV station in Miami, Florida from my home in Masontown, West Virginia too. Don't bet on it happening very often. In boat to boat communications where both boats are using 5' tall antennas and assuming they are both mounted on the sides of center consoles that are 4' above the water the absolutle maximum reliable communications distance you could get would be 9.24 miles, and that would be a stretch.<br /><br />Thom

 

[BoneDigger]

Re: VHF question.

I'm taking the radio to a communications store tomorrow to have it checked on a SWR meter. I'll post what I find out tomorrow.<br /><br />BTW, my frends radio (the one I was communicating with) is a Uniden Oceanus with a 4 foot whip antenna. We were using the Pleasure 69 channel and I tried both Lo and Hi for transmission. We still only got around 1/2 mile range.<br /><br />I appreciate the help.<br /><br />Todd

 

[ThomWV]

Re: VHF question.

The greatest number of problems with radios not working as they should falls back to the connector on the end of the antenna cable. This is the standard PS-259. I'd bet that's what the problme is.<br /><br />Thom

 

[BoneDigger]

Re: VHF question.

You may be right. As I noted above the PS-259 I am presently using is a crimp on style connector, but I have a connector that requires sodering sitting in my truck. I hope to get it sodered sometime before the next fishing trip and I may just get the radio shop to do it for me tomorrow while I'm there. I also plan to run power wires straight from the battery and see if that might help. Presently I have the radio hotwired into the power cable for the cigerette lighter recepticle on the console.

 

[Boatist]

Re: VHF question.

BoneDigger<br />Channel 69 is a simplex channel that allow all 25 watts. I think you are on the right track. Likely a bad connection or broken antenna.<br /><br />Do not expect to get 200 miles because it is not possible. I have talked 80 miles to the Coast Guard but there antenna is on top of a 3000 foot mountain. VHF will only reach 5 to 10 percent over the horzion. VHF signals just do not bend or bounce. Even VHF TV stations with high mounted antennas and more than 50,000 watts do not make 200 miles. CB radios can reach 200 miles because the signal will bounce or skip.

 

[ThomWV]

Re: VHF question.

Quick Correction for a missed Typo:<br /><br />That should read PL-259. You can pick them up at any Radio Shack for about three bucks.<br /><br />Thom

 

[Formula1974]

Re: VHF question.

what happens if you dont solder the wire into the connector?

 

[Boatist]

Re: VHF question.

Formula<br />If you do not solder the wire can still work ok. You need a different type connector. You can get Screw on or crimp on connectors. As long as you put them on right and they stay dry they work very well. If they get wet from fog or spray they over time can corrode and cause problems.<br /><br />If you solder on a good connector, (I like the gold ones), then check with a swr bridge to make sure did not melt the center insolator good for a very long time. I like to slide on some heat shrink first put on connector and solder. Check with a swr bridge and if good then slide up the heat shrink and heat to shrink. <br /><br />A good quality connector that fits the size wire you are useing makes a big difference. I do not like to use a PL259 connector with the adapter to RG58 or RG8X or RG8M. It will work but just a another place for connection problems. I like a connector made for the size coax I am useing.

 

[BLU LUNCH]

Re: VHF question.

I am a ham radio operator, I would like to say a few things about VHF signals. The range of VHF signals is the horzion plus 15%. Also there is natural emhansment of the atmoshere it is called ducting this happenes when high pressure stalls off the east coast and the whole weather pattern stalls for several days and "ducts forms" generally up and down the east coast. Myself using 2 meters 145.520 simplex have worked from northern Ct in to VA. and N.C. on 5 watts F.M. and in to Fla. on ssb. also hurricanes in the Atlantic when they get close to the main land will cause it to happen too. There is a thing called tempature inversion that happens in the fall with the cool morning tempatures and fog forms is a good time to listen a round. Ever turn your radio and FM is humming with so many signals on top of each other you can't make anything out? It's ducting find a clear freq. and give a shout you might be shocked by how far the other end is. There was a comment about CB can skip about 200 miles False! CB can talk worldwide but it is illegal in this country and most to talk "skip" that's why CB has a 5 watt limit on them. If you are having trouble any radio/attenna problems find a ham to help or go to the ARRL website there is a ton of radio/attenna info that can be applied to your radios...........

 

[Boatist]

Re: VHF question.

Blu Lunch<br />I am also a Ham and have been so since 1967. I never said CB can skip about 200 miles. I said CB can reach 200 miles. My point was that Boat to Boat range of VHF radio is not 200 miles. On average it is about 10 or 11 miles. His problem is that he can not reach more than 1/2 mile but he should not expect to reach more than about 12 miles boat to boat.<br /><br />As for 2 meters Simplex with a car mounted antenna at sea level talking to another car mounted antenna at sea level with 25 watts and a 3 to 6 db gain antenna range is also about 15 miles.<br /><br />My favorite FM radio station with 50,000 watts and antenna mounted on high towers or mountain side I can only get for about 50 miles. They are also a lower frequency than VHF marine.<br /><br />Satellite is line of site as the antenna is over 22,000 miles high.<br /> <br /> http://mastercatalog04.westmarine.com/0075.asp <br /> http://www.euro-agent.com/nautica/domet.htm

 

[ThomWV]

Re: VHF question.

Well, as long as we're putting out our bona fides: KC8NID here.<br /><br />The point of having a VHF radio on the boat is not to someday record that odd situation where you got to talk to an eskimo all the way from the keys, its to be able to contact help reliabily when required. While its nice to know about atmospheric ducting and it nice to know that our Marine VHFs will bounce off of high hard hills and airplanes and maybe even flocks of birds, its not reliable and so it doesn't matter. I think its very important for folks who haven't been playing with these things for years and who want to go a good ways apart from other boats to understand the limitations of their equipment. That's why I become very annoyed when folks tell the storys about some great distances they have see their radios work - under unusual circumstances to be sure - thereby giving some new boaters the impression they can call for help at long distance. They can not. There are very few hand helds out here that have ever contacted anyone more than 5 miles away and on the vast majority of small boats if they find themselves actually talking to another boat more than 15 miles away it should be a date they note on the calandar. I'm not talking about some western coast guard station with its 200 foot tall antenna up on top of a mountain and I'm not talking about some odd atmospheric condtion, I'm talking about every day life where boats sink while people desperatly try to call for help that will never hear them. Overestimate the capability of your equipment at your own peril.<br /><br />Thom

 

[18rabbit]

Re: VHF question.

Originally posted by ThomWV:<br /> The point of having a VHF radio on the boat is not to someday record that odd situation ..., its to be able to contact help reliabily when required.

Well, contacting help is part of it. The other half involves providing help if possible when needed. It doesn’t do any good to have the best communication equipment if no one is listening. That is why channel 16 is assigned and internationally recognized as the place to go when you need assistance and why you are required to monitor channel 16 whenever your radio is on and you’re not broadcasting. <br /><br />The other significant purpose of the radio is to receive warnings…approaching bad weather, pirate activity, incoming scud missiles…that kind of stuff.

 

[sloopy]

Re: VHF question.

I would like to know why I can contact a Coast Guard Group in Pittsburgh with my handheld vhf, and why I can not contact someone two miles down the lake? I know the answer to the second one, the lake is windy and twisty with mountains and million dollar homes in the way. But the coast guard station is 150 miles away!

 

[Drowned Rat]

Re: VHF question.

They use repeaters that are only a few miles away.

 

[18rabbit]

Re: VHF question.

The USCG antennas are sitting on top of mountains, towers, etc in optimal locations. As DR stated, the signal is passed along to a command center. In the SF Bay Area, the command center is on Treasure Island/Yerba Buena Island. The primary tower is located in-land in the East Bay on top of a mountain no where near the ocean. Another tower is up north, miles above SF bay near Tamalas Bay.

 

[Boilermaker]

Re: VHF question.

Wow>>>alot of HAMS here>>>KF2YR!!!<br />Maybe we should start an IBOATS HF sched!!!

 

[timbo1963]

Re: VHF question.

KU4FK here.