VHF Handheld

[PeterC4]

I am thinking of using my Cobalt 232 on Lake Ontario for the first time next summer. I have a navigation unit, but I was thinking of having a handheld VHF radio with me. It is a big lake and you just never know what can happen. Anyone familiar with StandardHorizon handhelds?

 

[Drowned Rat]

Re: VHF Handheld

Yes, good product. As long as you don't expect the same performance you get out of a quality base station.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: VHF Handheld

my friends and I use handhelds often at a hunt club but we are within a few miles of each other and have a 75' antenna at a base. I also use them some around the harbor.

For safety purposes they are good for a couple of miles; to talk to boats you can see. In perfect conditions you get about a mile per watt, so 5-6 for handhelds, but you can't count on it.

Icom is the best; I've been using Unidens and they are OK. Be sure to get submersible, not just waterproof.

 

[alldodge]

Re: VHF Handheld

I am thinking of using my Cobalt 232 on Lake Ontario for the first time next summer. I have a navigation unit, but I was thinking of having a handheld VHF radio with me. It is a big lake and you just never know what can happen. Anyone familiar with StandardHorizon handhelds?

To add to Drowned Rat comment, VHF is line of sight. The handheld is 5 watts, base unit is 25 watts. Watts are important but more important is the height of the antenna and the quality of it. This is why you see so many 8 foot antennas and some of those antenna's are a top 8 and 10 foot extension poles.

 

[PeterC4]

Re: VHF Handheld

Interesting. So the drawback is that you could find yourself out of range with a handheld if you do not have a good line of sight?

 

[jhebert]

Re: VHF Handheld

Interesting. So the drawback is that you could find yourself out of range with a handheld if you do not have a good line of sight?

I don't know about the standards used in Canada, but in the USA the Coast Guard radio system is constructed so that it can cover at least 20-miles offshore to a radio with 1-Watt with an antenna height of 1-foot. In other words, someone in the water with a handheld radio.

A handheld radio is better than no radio. A fixed mount radio with an antenna is better than a handheld. A really excellent 25-watt radio with a really excellent antenna mounted very high is best of all. Just pick where you want to be in this range of radio facilities.

VHF radio signal propagation is not line of sight. Everyone says that it is line of sight, but it is better than that, often much better. See

continuousWave: Whaler: Reference: Radio Horizon

 

[alldodge]

Re: VHF Handheld

I use line of sight as a term and the previous link indicates up the claim. VHF travels in a straight line and will pass through most hills and objects which do not attenuate the signal drastically. The amount of attenuation of the signal after passing through is determined the composition of the object (iron, steel, dirt, fiberglass, etc). Two boats can be separated by less than a mile but have a hill between them with iron ore deposits and they could be unable to converse. FM frequency will not bounce off the atmosphere like AM will. That being said we are all real close to one another with what we are saying, we just appear to be saying it a bit differently.

As before the antenna has the largest impact

Shakespeare Marine Antennas FAQ

 

[DLaMar]

Re: VHF Handheld

Don't worry too much about transmit range for a hand held. 5 watts is 5 watts, and a short, low gain antenna is what it is. What is the more important is being able to hear the things you need to hear. My aging Cobra scans channels 9, 13 (lots of barge traffic where we boat and it really helps to know who is where doing what), 16, and the local NOAA emergency weather channel. So focus on the features and functions you think important to were you boat and let power take care of itself. Did I mention a spare set of fresh batteries on the boat for the radio is a good idea?

 

[PeterC4]

Re: VHF Handheld

Don't worry too much about transmit range for a hand held. 5 watts is 5 watts, and a short, low gain antenna is what it is. What is the more important is being able to hear the things you need to hear. My aging Cobra scans channels 9, 13 (lots of barge traffic where we boat and it really helps to know who is where doing what), 16, and the local NOAA emergency weather channel. So focus on the features and functions you think important to were you boat and let power take care of itself. Did I mention a spare set of fresh batteries on the boat for the radio is a good idea?

Good advice. I figure, even though I plan to keep it close to shore, you cannot go wrong with some communication capability.

 

[jhebert]

Re: VHF Handheld

VHF travels in a straight line and will pass through most hills...

VHF signals do not penetrate through hills, that is to say, through earth. To test this, bury the antenna of your radio about ten feet underground and see how well it receives.

 

[alldodge]

Re: VHF Handheld

VHF signals do not penetrate through hills, that is to say, through earth. To test this, bury the antenna of your radio about ten feet underground and see how well it receives.

With your theory no one should be able to listen to FM radio if they get a hill between them and the tower. It's a theory

 

[jhebert]

Re: VHF Handheld

With your theory no one should be able to listen to FM radio if they get a hill between them and the tower. It's a theory

No. Your conclusion is wrong. Your conclusion is not a reasonable extension of what I said. You are also wrong a second time because it is very easy to demonstrate that tall hills will create shadows in the coverage of FM Broadcast band (88 to 106-MHz) signals.

Radio waves at VHF refract over hills, they do not pass through them. A radio wave at 158-MHz is not going to penetrate through very much earth, unless the earth is extremely low conductivity, such as very dry sand.

There is a great deal of confusion created about how VHF Marine band radios work, and it is not a good idea to invent behaviors for them that do not exist.

 

[alldodge]

Re: VHF Handheld

There is a great deal of confusion created ....and it is not a good idea to invent behaviors for them that do not exist .

Lets just agree to disagree, and go no furter, have a beer and chill :deadhorse:

 

[jhebert]

Re: VHF Handheld

Lets just agree to disagree, and go no furter, have a beer and chill

I do enjoy relaxing with a fine IPA, but, no matter how many I have, drinking beer will not alter the behavior of radio waves.

 

[kahuna123]

Re: VHF Handheld

Mine was 15ft in the air and good for about 60 mile transmit but could pick up the coast guard much.much further away and commercial traffic also. Its not great feeling to be in the middle grounds 90 miles out and ask for a radio check and no one answers.

 

[PeterC4]

Re: VHF Handheld

So back to one of my questions. If I have a handheld within say...1 to 2 miles off shore, I should be able to communicate with an on-shore marina, no? For me it is a back-up of sorts. I don't plan to cross Lake Ontario with it, although you never know. If I did that, I would be well prepared.

 

[PeterC4]

Re: VHF Handheld

Mine was 15ft in the air and good for about 60 mile transmit but could pick up the coast guard much.much further away and commercial traffic also. Its not great feeling to be in the middle grounds 90 miles out and ask for a radio check and no one answers.

Now that would scare the heck out of me.

 

[kahuna123]

Re: VHF Handheld

Yep, the next trip out I had a much better radio and an epirb (back then a good one was $1,200.) But not to derail this thread and his question. Any decent handheld should give you way more than a few miles on a lake with nothing but water between you and the marina. DO NOT go out without spare a spare battery. Stupid question but as a back up won't your cell phone work?