Used car values

[QC]

I am helping my niece look for a mini-pickup. My question is about NADA, Edmunds and Kelley Blue Book. They vary a lot and not sure why and what to believe. Same 2003 S10 LS extended cab 32,000 miles yada, yada: NADA $12,400; Edmunds $10,100; KBB $10,700. All of them their respective trade-in values. Anybody know the story? Why the seemingly large discrepancy?

 

[Pony]

Re: Used car values

Im not sure why there are discrepancies either, but I would sooner trust the KBB numbers IMHO. I'm pretty sure that insurance claims and dealerships use KBB when deciding the value of a car.<br /><br />Maybe each each one places a different value on certain accesories. Maybe they use a different formula for depreciation. Hopefully someone will know. I am now curious myself

 

[ZmOz]

Re: Used car values

They're all worthless. KBB and Edmunds are more realistic, I don't under stand how NADA stays in business as inaccurate as they are. The only real way to tell is read a bunch of local ads and look at the prices of similar vehicles.<br /><br />NADA says my $1000 MAX pickup is worth $3000 and my $1500+ outboard is worth less than $300. I couldn't buy a good lower unit for $300!

 

[roscoe]

Re: Used car values

Respective trade-in values? Means nothing unless we know what they are traded in on, its value, and whether that is the number subtracted from list price, or if it is the number subtracted from a well negotiated cash price.<br /><br />You can buy one of those, model year 2000, w/64k miles, for $5000 around here. <br /><br />Used car prices have rapidly devalued since 9/11, market is flooded with them. The sticker price is still pretty high, but they are discounting 20-30% around here.<br /><br />Example, 2000 Chevy Blazer, asking $8199, loaded, super clean, 80k miles, new tires. Talked with them for 15 minutes and they told me I could have it for $6000. Compare that to $30,000 for a new one.<br /><br />6 year old cars used to be worth 1/2 of original sales price. Now they are 25% to 40% after 6 years, depending on vehicle.

 

[BoatBuoy]

Re: Used car values

To me, a fairer estimate of the worth of a vehicle is what like models have sold for on ebay. Not what some book says it should sell for.<br /><br />When my son was young, he used to dabble in baseball trading cards. He was always telling me what this or that card was worth, according to the "book". I worked at hard to convince him that something was only worth an amount if someone was willing to pay that for it. Books can say anything.

 

[one more cast]

Re: Used car values

Most of the big dealers around here use Auction price.(the price that like vehicles are selling for at the auto auctions) as a starting point.My 2002 silverado 4x4 whole sales for about $8-9000.<br /> Most of the small dealers show you the NADA price so you think your getting a good deal. I once bought a used '99 ford ranger 4x4 that was loaded and when I got them from $17,000 down to $14,500 I told them that I thought they were still way over book so they whipped out the NADA guide and the truck retailed for $17,000.

 

[dolluper]

Re: Used car values

I always buy at auction,the black book in Canada takes it's values from auction sales to retail sales,the red book is used by insurance companies for write off's,if you buy between the price on the black and red it's a good deal.Last car I bought was a 2003 Ford CV copper special at auction, $4200.00 Can, Red showed $6700.00 Black showed $11200.00,put $400.00 in it and sold it for $7500.00,they got a very good deal at that price and were very pleased, shady lots wanted around $9500.00 to $12500.00 for the exact same car from same auction to boot

 

[jimonica]

Re: Used car values

Hey Quietcat,<br />Finally I get the chance to tell you something that might be useful! Since I worked roughly 15yrs in the business (sales, finance, sales management). <br />The "book" is a guideline only. Then you go by condition. If the car is "in the wrapper" it may sell for more than the highest published price. If its a "rat" it should sell for less than the lowest published price.<br /><br />First thing I would do is try to find out what book is used in your geographic location. Where I'm from we use NADA. If somebody came on our lot with a Edmunds or Kelly, I would politely tell them to throw it in the trash.<br /><br />After you find out what book is used in your area.<br />Use the values they publish as a guide. Then look in your paper and check other dealers to make sure the numbers are accurate. Finally if you find a car that seems to be on the money, always offer somewhere between $1000 to $2000 less, just to keep them honest.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Used car values

And almost every insurance company I have ever heard of uses NADA to settle or as a guide. The company I worked for used NADA.<br />They also used, and some states require an Independant Third PArty Valuation. That's where ADP and CCC come in. They do an actual search for cars for sale or recently (past 90 days) sold in and around your specific market area. I have found them to to be very accurate. Better than NADA. My experience was, ADP was higher than book on 1 & two year old cars. Lower than book on 10 year old cars. Like Zm's truck. And my 1987 Chevy Van, $2500 NADA, state of IL limits deduction for wear & tear to $500. No way my van is worth $2000. ADP would value it at about $600, it's true market value.<br />KBB is the biggest joke of all time. Try running your daughter's vehicle as a "dealer" sale! It'll come out to practically what it cost new! I have also noticed that KBB adds on for options that are standard to specific models. Example, 1997 Cavalier, it has Base, RS, and Z24, with ascending starting values. The Z24 being much higher than the other two. Then it says to add on for Alloys & PW & PDL, wel that was standard on the Z24 and should be accounted for in it's starting value.

 

[QC]

Re: Used car values

I have been watching this a lot, so all of your points make sense to me, thanks. Helps me know I am on the right track.<br /><br />I belive what BoatBouy says the most, but that takes a lot of time to evaluate.<br /><br />I understand the point Roscoe makes, but I am not talking about actually trading something in just trying to get a realistic value. I have been evaluating stuff on Ebay etc. by using the KBB trade in which gets me a good feel. KBB is the most often sited in L.A.<br /><br />Thanks jimonica, but like most of our discussions I end up with a question . . . Why would your lot use the NADA if they are typically higher? I would use it to sell, but never to buy. Is that what you meant?<br /><br />BTW, I am not shopping dealers. I have been lucky in the past working on private parties and have consistently been able to find cars at around the KBB trade-in. I usually look for cars still in their standard factory warranty. Most of these guys are usually upside down, but once in a while I find somebody who can "afford" to sell . . . Takes some work, and I just wanted to know if my "system" was in the ballpark. Thanks.

 

[KRS]

Re: Used car values

Don't use the internet to book a car value, use a blue book so you get ACTUAL wholesale and retail prices, go to a bank with the info and they *should* look it up for you.

 

[jimonica]

Re: Used car values

Quietcat, <br />I'm not in the business any more. I was just trying to be helpful and as usual your looking for a debate wear there is none.<br />If NADA is what is used in my geograhic area, that means every lot uses NADA in my market.<br /><br />I've had people come in with Kelly and Edmunds and they're just spinning their wheels, because the market in this area doesn't reflect them values. If you can buy cars at kbb trade-in, better still, you've answered your own question.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Used car values

JMonica,<br /><br />Does NADA have different published prices for different areas or states. Snowbelt car values vs. Sunbelt. Everytime I buy a car for personal use they whip out NADA. As long as they are using the same guide for the trade it should come out the same. Or do some publications favor a seller and some the buyer?

 

[QC]

Re: Used car values

Originally posted by jimonica:<br /> Quietcat, <br />I was just trying to be helpful and as usual your looking for a debate wear there is none.

I honestly wanted your advice and help, not sure how that came off wrong. Basically, I have the same question as Pointer . . .

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Used car values

Originally posted by POINTER94:<br /> JMonica,<br /><br />Does NADA have different published prices for different areas or states. Snowbelt car values vs. Sunbelt. Everytime I buy a car for personal use they whip out NADA. As long as they are using the same guide for the trade it should come out the same. Or do some publications favor a seller and some the buyer?

NADA has different regions, i.e. Eastern, Southeastern, Central, Midwest... and there will be some difference in prices on exactly the same vehicles, but not a HUGE amount.<br />I find in my area, that the dealers do not use NADA trade-in when evaluating your trade. They use the "Black Book" which is the price they can expect to get for your car at the auction, and is much lower than NADA trade in. They do however use NADA retail as a guide to price their vehicle for sale. <br />Kelley really seems to favor the selling dealer.

 

[jimonica]

Re: Used car values

NADA does have a book that just reflects the auction values. This book was only available only to dealers not retail customers. That may have changed. Last time I worked in the business was 1999.<br />But I stress no matter what the book says to shop your local paper or get online to make sure the prices are not an anomaly. <br />For example if you have a car that is not a large volume seller NADA's values may not be very accurate.<br />In the late 90's we could buy a 96 or 97 Lincoln Continental for about $4000 less that book. The Dealers love cars like that because they can bury a lot of negative equity (up-side-down)in it.

 

[jimonica]

Re: Used car values

Yes NADA does have books for different areas of the country.<br />And NADA does have books that favor the dealer.<br />Anyone can go to a book store and buy a retail edition of NADA. Dealers like that one when selling. For trade-in there is a thin little blue book that NADA sends out to dealers that reflect auction prices only. Thats the one your used car manager keeps in his pocket and guards with his life. Then again he uses that book as a guide also, its not the Bible or etched in stone.

 

[DJ]

Re: Used car values

Used vehicle values are based on auction data. It is regional, no question.<br /><br />A CLEAN used vehicle can always can bring above book price. It's still a buyer and a seller that determine price.